Empagliflozin (Jardiance) Blues

[SockFiddler]

So after a disastrous, even horrific 3 days on Metformin I realise very quickly I'd rather risk complications than take anymore. (stuff came out of my body when I went to the loo that should never come out of any human being, and the process to get it out was... well, unpleasant) During my first meeting with the diabetic nurse, upon hearing that I'm also adopting a low-carb diet - and seeing that I'd already lost weight (for the first time ever) - she recommended Jardiance.

I took my first one on Friday, and while it's far less awful than the Metformin was, the side-effects I'm experience are still impactful:

- Constant thirst. 8 litres of water yesterday, not because I was pushing myself to drink, but because I was craving it. I wake up dry-mouthed and drink a litre immediately.
- Constant urge to pee. Yesterday and Saturday I was up to the bathroom 11 times. 11! While up and down the stairs has got to be good for my health, I accept, 11 pees in a single day is... it's a lot. (No other symptoms of UTIs - am keeping an eye out)
- Trying to put this politely but... 2/3 mornings since starting this drug and I've woken up after my bladder. If you know what I mean.
- Dizziness, lightheadedness and a weird sort of dazed confusion whenever I take one, that lasts until I've slept and woken up again.
- The weight is falling off me. Dramatically. Clothes that I was comfortably filling when I went to my doc appointments last week are now visibly baggy. I guess I should be punching the air and thanking my lucky stars that it's coming off so easily, but it seems too easy and I'm wary of a sudden, dramatic loss of weight after trying for so long to shift it with no effect.

I know that, generally, this is a very new drug and that people are quite wary of it. I've only agreed to take it for a month (and then review) while the low-carb diet takes effect and I get the hang of testing, and only then because my kidneys and heart were shown to be in brilliant health.

I'm wondering (hoping) that someone can tell me that things settle on this drug very quickly - if anyone has experience of taking it, did you ever get control of your bladder again? Did the weight loss slow down? Did the thirst settle? Maybe the answer is to call the doctor.

Thanks in advance,

Sock x

 

[Barry05]

There's no way I can see the metformin causing that.
What else are you taking and doing?

 

[SockFiddler]

Nope, I stopped taking the Metformin after 3 awful days. All the listed effects are from the Jardiance I've been given instead.

Edit: All the side-effects I'm experiencing on the Jardiance (Empagliflozin by any other name) are listed as possible on both its website and the patient info sheet. But, of course, it gives no guidance on how to cope with them and how to know if they're getting out of hand and you need to see someone. Or how long it might take to settle.

 

[CherryAA]

So after a disastrous, even horrific 3 days on Metformin I realise very quickly I'd rather risk complications than take anymore. (stuff came out of my body when I went to the loo that should never come out of any human being, and the process to get it out was... well, unpleasant) During my first meeting with the diabetic nurse, upon hearing that I'm also adopting a low-carb diet - and seeing that I'd already lost weight (for the first time ever) - she recommended Jardiance.

I took my first one on Friday, and while it's far less awful than the Metformin was, the side-effects I'm experience are still impactful:

- Constant thirst. 8 litres of water yesterday, not because I was pushing myself to drink, but because I was craving it. I wake up dry-mouthed and drink a litre immediately.
- Constant urge to pee. Yesterday and Saturday I was up to the bathroom 11 times. 11! While up and down the stairs has got to be good for my health, I accept, 11 pees in a single day is... it's a lot. (No other symptoms of UTIs - am keeping an eye out)
- Trying to put this politely but... 2/3 mornings since starting this drug and I've woken up after my bladder. If you know what I mean.
- Dizziness, lightheadedness and a weird sort of dazed confusion whenever I take one, that lasts until I've slept and woken up again.
- The weight is falling off me. Dramatically. Clothes that I was comfortably filling when I went to my doc appointments last week are now visibly baggy. I guess I should be punching the air and thanking my lucky stars that it's coming off so easily, but it seems too easy and I'm wary of a sudden, dramatic loss of weight after trying for so long to shift it with no effect.

I know that, generally, this is a very new drug and that people are quite wary of it. I've only agreed to take it for a month (and then review) while the low-carb diet takes effect and I get the hang of testing, and only then because my kidneys and heart were shown to be in brilliant health.

I'm wondering (hoping) that someone can tell me that things settle on this drug very quickly - if anyone has experience of taking it, did you ever get control of your bladder again? Did the weight loss slow down? Did the thirst settle? Maybe the answer is to call the doctor.

Thanks in advance,

Sock x

Faced with the same data, I personally would not take any drugs.

In my experience low carb takes effect immediately . For example - the day I was diagnosed my blood sugar was 18.4 , I started LCHF that evening. Three days later I went back in for the hba1 c test - that showed a score of 90 ( 10.3% )- which is an AVERAGE blood sugar of 14.3% over the last THREE MONTHS . but my actual blood sugar had gone down to 9.2% ie 18.4 became 9.2 in THREE DAYS FLAT - no drugs.

The constant urge to pee- if you were eating very high carbs before, then you will rapidly flush out huge amount of excess water by going low carb - A freind of mine lost about 10Kg in 10 days and has gone onto lose 23 kg in about 8 weeks.


It may be that what you are experiencing is a mixture of the drugs AND keto flu. it is not unusual for people to experience massive weight loss in the first few weeks of LCHF .

This is a good description of what happens in keto flu

https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/17/quick-guide-to-keto-flu-remedies

These are short term issues which will go away as your body gets used to running on fats. So if its these kind of symptoms that reduce it may not actually anything to do with the medication you are taking

 

[DCUKMod]

So after a disastrous, even horrific 3 days on Metformin I realise very quickly I'd rather risk complications than take anymore. (stuff came out of my body when I went to the loo that should never come out of any human being, and the process to get it out was... well, unpleasant) During my first meeting with the diabetic nurse, upon hearing that I'm also adopting a low-carb diet - and seeing that I'd already lost weight (for the first time ever) - she recommended Jardiance.

I took my first one on Friday, and while it's far less awful than the Metformin was, the side-effects I'm experience are still impactful:

- Constant thirst. 8 litres of water yesterday, not because I was pushing myself to drink, but because I was craving it. I wake up dry-mouthed and drink a litre immediately.
- Constant urge to pee. Yesterday and Saturday I was up to the bathroom 11 times. 11! While up and down the stairs has got to be good for my health, I accept, 11 pees in a single day is... it's a lot. (No other symptoms of UTIs - am keeping an eye out)
- Trying to put this politely but... 2/3 mornings since starting this drug and I've woken up after my bladder. If you know what I mean.
- Dizziness, lightheadedness and a weird sort of dazed confusion whenever I take one, that lasts until I've slept and woken up again.
- The weight is falling off me. Dramatically. Clothes that I was comfortably filling when I went to my doc appointments last week are now visibly baggy. I guess I should be punching the air and thanking my lucky stars that it's coming off so easily, but it seems too easy and I'm wary of a sudden, dramatic loss of weight after trying for so long to shift it with no effect.

I know that, generally, this is a very new drug and that people are quite wary of it. I've only agreed to take it for a month (and then review) while the low-carb diet takes effect and I get the hang of testing, and only then because my kidneys and heart were shown to be in brilliant health.

I'm wondering (hoping) that someone can tell me that things settle on this drug very quickly - if anyone has experience of taking it, did you ever get control of your bladder again? Did the weight loss slow down? Did the thirst settle? Maybe the answer is to call the doctor.

Thanks in advance,

Sock x

The way the drug you are now taking works is to excrete sugar in your urine, so it is quite usual individuals to experience a greater urinary output whilst taking the medication. Some of your dramatic weight loss could actually be due to dehydration, if your system has been quite, quite upset for a while. That said, you should keep an eye on that, for sure. Do you know about the pinch test for dehydration?

I have a relative taking the same medication as you, and his blood results and weight improved significantly on it, along with adopting both self testing and a reduced carb diet, to the extent that within one review cycle his HbA1c halved. He didn't have any marked side effects, aside from an increased thirst and spending a little more time "consulting in the smallest room". That said, he didn't start it with an already upset system. Of course, his experience isn't what happens for everyone, but it did for this individual.

I think like any change of medication it is worthwhile trying to give it a little while for your body to become accustomed to the new meds, but only you can know if that approach is tolerable for you.

It sounds like you have read the Patient Information Leaflet, which is clearly a good thing. There have been a few threads about this drug, so a forum search could be useful. Like most drugs, there are alternative names for it, depending on the brands used, so Dr Google could help you with those alternatives, and that might help return an increased number of results in a forum search.

Good luck with it all. You're certainly taking this diabetes thing by the throat and giving it a good old shake!

 

[SockFiddler]

Thanks, @DCUKMod and @CherryAA - I'm encouraged and less anxious. I s'pose after so many years or trying so many things (O, Orlistat and the terrible psychology. Doesn't anyone read Skinner anymore?!) it's a complete shock to see the weight literally dropping off me (this evening, upon waking just now,I discovered a rib I'd not seen in several years), and I'm used to nothing being easy without a catch.

Well, I guess this time the catch is magic medicine literally melting my weight away (Glucopee is my nickname for this stuff) like magic, but I had to develop diabetes to take it.

Good luck with it all. You're certainly taking this diabetes thing by the throat and giving it a good old shake!

I refuse to be frightened by something. I tend to look life in the eyes these days and say "Come and get me", mostly because it's the only way to cope with my son's many troubles - I guess it's my ingrained mindset now that something serious has happened to me.

I also really miss working (it's been 14 months) so I tend to turn everything I can into a project to be researched, decided upon and campaigned about. It's a little nutty, but it's working for me - and it terrified the education commissioners back in February when they gave me an answer I didn't like!

Thanks, both, for the reassurance and search tips. I think part of it is finding the right time of day to take it, too. Today I took it just before I went to sleep, deliberately, and now I'm awake I'm feeling pretty clear-headed. The peeing will settle, the drinking is no bad thing, I guess, and the weight needs to shift so why not do it fast, eh?

I love this forum <3

 

[DCUKMod]

Thanks, @DCUKMod and @CherryAA - I'm encouraged and less anxious. I s'pose after so many years or trying so many things (O, Orlistat and the terrible psychology. Doesn't anyone read Skinner anymore?!) it's a complete shock to see the weight literally dropping off me (this evening, upon waking just now,I discovered a rib I'd not seen in several years), and I'm used to nothing being easy without a catch.

Well, I guess this time the catch is magic medicine literally melting my weight away (Glucopee is my nickname for this stuff) like magic, but I had to develop diabetes to take it.



I refuse to be frightened by something. I tend to look life in the eyes these days and say "Come and get me", mostly because it's the only way to cope with my son's many troubles - I guess it's my ingrained mindset now that something serious has happened to me.

I also really miss working (it's been 14 months) so I tend to turn everything I can into a project to be researched, decided upon and campaigned about. It's a little nutty, but it's working for me - and it terrified the education commissioners back in February when they gave me an answer I didn't like!

Thanks, both, for the reassurance and search tips. I think part of it is finding the right time of day to take it, too. Today I took it just before I went to sleep, deliberately, and now I'm awake I'm feeling pretty clear-headed. The peeing will settle, the drinking is no bad thing, I guess, and the weight needs to shift so why not do it fast, eh?

I love this forum <3

Just one thing that's popped into my mind is should you ever have a urine general dip test, it is likely to show the presence of glucose (because the drug is designed to do that). Under normal circumstances that would suggest a blood sugar score of around 10+, whereas on this drug, with a modified diet and testing, you are likely to have evidenced lower scores, if not already, the in the future.

This resulted in my relative "failing" his work related medical, which is critical to his ability be do his job, with the very various specialist (to his occupation) guidelines and insurance criteria. Thankfully that failure was overturned on appeal.

 

[SockFiddler]

Good tip - thank you! I'm currently not working, though I'm desperate to start again (all things in good time, sort myself first...) I'm a little stunned that your relative's workplace hadn't anticipated such a result and automatically understand / adjust for it.

I have to admit, this evening I'm feeling much better than I have for a few days. I wonder whether it was just bad timing on my part - starting a (relatively dramatic) new drug just before a period which are, themselves, fairly dramatic. I feel more confident that it's all going to calm down over the next few days, and I'm so grateful for everyone's input <3

 

[DCUKMod]

Good tip - thank you! I'm currently not working, though I'm desperate to start again (all things in good time, sort myself first...) I'm a little stunned that your relative's workplace hadn't anticipated such a result and automatically understand / adjust for it.

I have to admit, this evening I'm feeling much better than I have for a few days. I wonder whether it was just bad timing on my part - starting a (relatively dramatic) new drug just before a period which are, themselves, fairly dramatic. I feel more confident that it's all going to calm down over the next few days, and I'm so grateful for everyone's input <3

SockFiddler - My relative's workplace have no say in adjusting or understanding his medical result. They are bound by it, as passing the regular medical is a requirement of remaining within his profession, with the professional and medical insurers echoing that requirement. There are several occupations covered by similar conditions.

The medical requirements are designed to protect him, his employers and colleagues from situations potentially arising from inadequately controlled medical conditions (of all sorts), often in foreign and questionably "exotic" locations. I imagine there could be situations where the medical examiner feels stuck between a rock and a hard place, but sometimes the roooolz are the non-negotiable roooolz.

To an dissociated onlooker it seems like rather a blunt instrument for judgement, but even in the light of his shock and disbelief, my relative was quickly able to determine that his appeal just had to be carefully positioned and supported by the relevant documentation, to resolve the issue with minimal delay. Such, I guess, can be the stumbling blocks of utilising relatively newly introduced medications. Needless to say he is better informed for positioning the relevant parts of the medical examinations and the resultant output decision reports these days.

 

[paulos]

So after a disastrous, even horrific 3 days on Metformin I realise very quickly I'd rather risk complications than take anymore. (stuff came out of my body when I went to the loo that should never come out of any human being, and the process to get it out was... well, unpleasant) During my first meeting with the diabetic nurse, upon hearing that I'm also adopting a low-carb diet - and seeing that I'd already lost weight (for the first time ever) - she recommended Jardiance.

I took my first one on Friday, and while it's far less awful than the Metformin was, the side-effects I'm experience are still impactful:

- Constant thirst. 8 litres of water yesterday, not because I was pushing myself to drink, but because I was craving it. I wake up dry-mouthed and drink a litre immediately.
- Constant urge to pee. Yesterday and Saturday I was up to the bathroom 11 times. 11! While up and down the stairs has got to be good for my health, I accept, 11 pees in a single day is... it's a lot. (No other symptoms of UTIs - am keeping an eye out)
- Trying to put this politely but... 2/3 mornings since starting this drug and I've woken up after my bladder. If you know what I mean.
- Dizziness, lightheadedness and a weird sort of dazed confusion whenever I take one, that lasts until I've slept and woken up again.
- The weight is falling off me. Dramatically. Clothes that I was comfortably filling when I went to my doc appointments last week are now visibly baggy. I guess I should be punching the air and thanking my lucky stars that it's coming off so easily, but it seems too easy and I'm wary of a sudden, dramatic loss of weight after trying for so long to shift it with no effect.

I know that, generally, this is a very new drug and that people are quite wary of it. I've only agreed to take it for a month (and then review) while the low-carb diet takes effect and I get the hang of testing, and only then because my kidneys and heart were shown to be in brilliant health.

I'm wondering (hoping) that someone can tell me that things settle on this drug very quickly - if anyone has experience of taking it, did you ever get control of your bladder again? Did the weight loss slow down? Did the thirst settle? Maybe the answer is to call the doctor.

Thanks in advance,

Sock x

Hi

That's interesting! I had a similar reaction to Metformin as you, except that mine only kicked off after I had been taking it for 5 days. I tried Metformin three or four times and each time, after 5 days of 1000mg doses, the bottom dropped out of my life BIG TIME! I would not have been able to go to work had I not stopped taking it as I could not risk being more than 20 or 30 seconds from a toilet! Very unpleasant!

In the end, I made a huge effort and managed to control my Type II with diet and exercise only. When I retired, I moved from Luxembourg to Thailand and really lost control of my diet and my beer consumption (the mercury goes up to 40 - 45°C here in the hot season so excessive beer drinking is an ever present danger); my weight ballooned to BMI = 30 and my blood glucose numbers went crazy! I saw a doctor here in Thailand and she said that if I couldn't take Metformin, a newish medication, Jardiance, was ideal for me as it doesn't tend to cause hypos which can be a real danger for people living alone like myself. I haven't really had any major problems with it other than temporary impotence that lasted about a month when I first started taking it. I concur with your remarks about its diuretic effects; I usually end up getting out of bed at least three times a night to pee. Once (and once only once, I am happy to report!) I had rather too much beer - very much too much in fact, failed to wake up when busting for a pee and ****** the bed - something I haven't done since I was about 3 or 4 years old! This was very bad news as I was staying in an hotel at the time! I can't say that I have experienced any unusual thirst at all, but I have had one urinary tract infection and as a result had to stop taking them for around a month whilst my urine samples were still showing up protein and blood. There are other medications of the same type available - perhaps it might be worth asking your doctor if another type might suit you better.

 

[SockFiddler]

Hey, @paulos - your story is really interesting (and kind of exciting!), thank you so much for sharing it.

I've been two months on the Jardiance now and by and large the initial unpleasant symptoms have settled. Rarely (and only on days when I'm deliberately resting) does my bladder wake up before I do, though you're right, it's still deeply unpleasant when that happens and you do cast your mind back to early childhood!

I've had just the one UTI so far (touch wood), and still drink around 5 litres of water a day, but I'm comfortable with that and at least it means I'm doing my kidneys a favour. I'm still mindful of its ability to induce diabetic ketoacidosis, a side-effect that can creep up innocuously but is incredibly dangerous. I came up with a mnemonic to check my symptoms with and I'll pop it here (though it's kinda dumb) - it's important to remember that for people like us on the GlucoPee, our BG doesn't have to climb into the heavens, but, equally, (if you test for ketones), we're likely to have ketones in our urine if we low-carb.

Very (Vomiting)
Bad (Bad breath)
Boys (Breathing - "gasping" for air, like a fish)
Head (Heart rate racing)
To (Unquenchable thirst)
Cells (Confusion - I use remembering the mnemonic as a test)

I had initially planned to only take the GlucoPee for a month, but I'm ending Month 2 now, and that's simply because I've got some fairly big, stressful events coming up, the side-effects have settled and I'm not quite sure I'm ready (confident enough) to commit to diet-only control, particularly as exercise is an issue for me.

Thanks again for sharing - enjoy Thailand!

Sock

 

[kitskinner]

Hi everyone. I have just started taking Jardiance today so am now awaiting these lovely side affects!
With that I've also started blood testing for the first time after being diagnosed for 15 years. Can anybody tell me how soon I should test after eating?
Luke many others diets confuse me. I have an appointment with a dietician next month to discuss such. I now hate eating and have gone to one meal a day. Not losing weight hence the Jardiance! Looking forward to losing weight but not the toilet troubles

 

[SockFiddler]

Hey there @kitskinner - welcome aboard!

Jardiance is a funny one, and will hit different people differently (is what I learned from this thread), and if you feel unwell at all, contact your GP / 111 immediately. With that said, once the initial side-effects settled (and I got used to lose so much weight so fast - no number (I don't weigh - Ell Oh Ell), but 3 clothes sizes in 2 months) I've actually had a very positive experience with it.

Blood testing is a brilliant new habit to get into, too! Depending on how obsessive you're willing to get, I'd say do your BG as soon after waking as you can every single morning, and then test just before you eat and no sooner than 2 hours after a meal. Record these numbers somewhere and then you'll start seeing trends over time. Obviously the more you test, the better your data, but if you're just curiously measuring then don't get too obsessive about it to start with.

It can also be incredibly useful to keep a food diary so that you can see what foods are good and less great for you, and - if you later start to follow a particular diet path, you'll have established what your "usual" diet looks like.

It's a long road, this one, but there's some fab people along the way and many of us find it a very empowering process to go through - we've been slaves to food for such a long time, and often we've experienced health gone off the rails. To now be in a place where we can take back both our diets and our health is a great feeling, and everyone here has valuable experiences, views, knowledge and support that they're happy to share.

Ask for anything you need, smile and feel good - and welcome!

Sock x

 

[kitskinner]

Hey there @kitskinner - welcome aboard!

Jardiance is a funny one, and will hit different people differently (is what I learned from this thread), and if you feel unwell at all, contact your GP / 111 immediately. With that said, once the initial side-effects settled (and I got used to lose so much weight so fast - no number (I don't weigh - Ell Oh Ell), but 3 clothes sizes in 2 months) I've actually had a very positive experience with it.

Blood testing is a brilliant new habit to get into, too! Depending on how obsessive you're willing to get, I'd say do your BG as soon after waking as you can every single morning, and then test just before you eat and no sooner than 2 hours after a meal. Record these numbers somewhere and then you'll start seeing trends over time. Obviously the more you test, the better your data, but if you're just curiously measuring then don't get too obsessive about it to start with.

It can also be incredibly useful to keep a food diary so that you can see what foods are good and less great for you, and - if you later start to follow a particular diet path, you'll have established what your "usual" diet looks like.

It's a long road, this one, but there's some fab people along the way and many of us find it a very empowering process to go through - we've been slaves to food for such a long time, and often we've experienced health gone off the rails. To now be in a place where we can take back both our diets and our health is a great feeling, and everyone here has valuable experiences, views, knowledge and support that they're happy to share.

Ask for anything you need, smile and feel good - and welcome!

Sock x

Thanks for that reply. I found it helpful and encouraging. I've been on the forum for several years but never had the nerve to post but I see so many people in similar circs to me and I know now that I don't know it all. Cheers

 

[SockFiddler]

Congrats (and thank you) for stepping out of the shadows. I guess us regulars can be something of a rough-and-tumble crew at times, but it's important to remember that none of us knows everything, and so the more people we have adding what they do know into the mix, the stronger our collective information becomes.

It's a funny thing, this diet lark. There's lots of info, but there's still a certain amount of winging it until you figure out what works. As you know, I'm sure, by reading what worked for others, we get to know what we can try for ourselves. Seriously, it's a big deal that you finally posted - I hope to read much more from you!

 

[ringi]

The side effects from Jardiance will reduce greatly if someone eats fewer carbs (and not too much protein), they also reduce when your BG reduce. Therefore the side effect will be worse for the first few days.

You must drink a lot of water, and take a little salt - stock cube in a cup of hot water is one option unless lots of salt on food.

Personally, I think a 2 day fast (while drinking a lot of water plus some salted stock) when first on Jardiance will not be a bad option, as the combination should get BG down very quickly and hence stop most of the side effects. But think carefully about any other drugs that are still in your system.

I wish I was given Jardiance at the start, as the drugs I had required me to eat carbs (until I saw sense and stopped taking them once my BG was in single figures.) Jardiance gives no problems with a low BG, as it just stops working when the BG gets low.

(Think of Jardiance as a way to convert "low carb" into "very low carb".)

 

[SockFiddler]

You must drink a lot of water, and take a little salt - stock cube in a cup of hot water is one option unless lots of salt on food.

Do not under-estimate the power of this drink!

(Incidentally, that's called a "Ringi" in my house now. Whenever Euan fancies a cuppa he'll now ask, "Tea, coffee or a Ringi?"

Haha

 

[Lynne1957]

I've been T2 for ten years now & was completely diet controlled. Following an extremely stressful period at work started to feel very unwell. Went to docs & BG was 24.5. Can' tolerate metformin so am on gliclozide & jardiance. Dreadful thirst & putting on weight at an alarming rate. Exercise is difficult due to other health issues. Have tried low carb but makes me feel even more exhausted. Any ideas or comments?

 

[ickihun]

I've been T2 for ten years now & was completely diet controlled. Following an extremely stressful period at work started to feel very unwell. Went to docs & BG was 24.5. Can' tolerate metformin so am on gliclozide & jardiance. Dreadful thirst & putting on weight at an alarming rate. Exercise is difficult due to other health issues. Have tried low carb but makes me feel even more exhausted. Any ideas or comments?

@Lynne1957 did you say your adding weight on jardiance because you are taking the weight adding drug gliclizide?
See if gp will allow no gliclizide for a month?
Low carb and any fat level and jardiance (if tolerable) will get your weight moving in the right direction. Do you need to lose weight? Some type2s aren't obese.
I am morbidly obese and awaiting bariatric surgery as jardiance gives me horrific thrush on top of suffering it anyway if bgs in 7.8-9.2mmol/l on my meter.

 

[Lynne1957]

I am about 3 stone overweight & don't want it to get any higher! Will book an appointment with my GP & see if the gliclizide can be removed & perhaps a referral to a dietician as all the advice seems to have changed since I was first diagnosed. BGs vary from 3.5 to 11.9 daily sometimes higher