Here we go again...statins...

[JenniferG]

Statins work for some people by lowering inflammation. A ketogenic diet can lower inflammation more than a statin. Also statins worsen metabolic syndrome & diabetes.

 

[poshtotty]

My records are now recorded that I do not intend taking statins, at my request.

I have been refusing statins since 2014 and this is noted on my records also. When I had my annual review at the beginning of this month (unusually with my GP rather than the DN) he had a student doctor sitting in, and explained to the student, with a smile at me, that I had refused statins. They were not mentioned again. I have always had the utmost respect for my GP and DN and I feel it is mutual. I would never presume to know more than medical professionals, although this particular GP did once admit that I knew more about T2 than he did. Mutual respect is essential in all professional working relationships, including medics. The day may come when we need them more than we do now

 

[andcol]

For my last cholesterol test I had been fasting for 5 days prior to it (just the way all the dates worked out). I informed the nurse at the time of the blood letting but they didnt seem to understand the significance or even take note of it. Then of course the TC was elevated and when I explained to the nurse why she couldn't grasp it. I often send them references to papers to help them but this time haven't bothered.

 

[Sarah69]

Can you just not refuse the appointment for the blood test? That's what I would do.

 

[bulkbiker]

Can you just not refuse the appointment for the blood test? That's what I would do.

I'm quite happy to have the blood test ... you can't have too much data.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the results come in..

 

[ringi]

Rather then fasting, a 3 day fat feast before the test would be interesting, taking a photo of everything you eat. If the result goes down a lot (as I would expect), the photos may lead to a very confused GP. (If the reuslt does not go down, don't show them the photos.)

Statins gives some people a lot of benfits, but I see no point anyone with low Trigs starting on statins regardless of the total cholesterol.

 

[Guzzler]

Rather then fasting, a 3 day fat feast before the test would be interesting, taking a photo of everything you eat. If the result goes down a lot (as I would expect), the photos may lead to a very confused GP. (If the reuslt does not go down, don't show them the photos.)

Statins gives some people a lot of benfits, but I see no point anyone with low Trigs starting on statins regardless of the total cholesterol.

".....Statins give some people a lot of benefits"
It has been proved that for people who have already had a heart related incident the benefit is low.

 

[Fleegle]

Although I am sure that the DR and Nurses would benefit from being shown different approaches and ways of eating I am not really sure what would be achieved? Unfortunately primary and secondary care are not as personal as they could be. They are personal in that your results are used to work on an approach to making you "well" but that approach is derived from studies, data and evidenced based large scale trials over many years. There are countless examples of where they have got it wrong and in effect poisoned people so it isn't perfect - but many many more examples of making people well.

Of course like a tanker it takes too long to slow it down let alone turn it around. Some DRs who have time and an inclination will read and digest the latest research even that which isn't large scale and may adapt there thinking. However - it is risky for them because if they do not follow the advice they have and then something happens to you they are struck off. That is entirely different from you refusing their approach - that is your choice.

I do not think (and in some ways I hope not) that a DR is going to turn around their thinking on how to manage cholesterol from patient based evidence on a relatively small scale. The DR may encourage you to continue but may not and almost certainly not start managing other patients in the way you have found success.

It is the government and the governing bodies I think the big guns should be aimed at. I have never been to any surgery anywhere where they haven't been busy and frankly over worked - perhaps in some cases busy fools but doing their best given their years of training and reading they did. If the governing boards can change their advice and guidance then the GPs and DNs will respond in that way.

Just my HO.

 

[Dillinger]

But you must remember that some people do want cholesterol levels in the range which most deem normal.

Here's the Mighty Dr Kendrick on 'normal cholesterol' levels:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2013/05/06/a-simple-question-that-opens-a-can-of-worms/

 

[ringi]

One big problem is that the NHS does not measure the "small particle size distribution" when doing a cholesterol test. I expect that if it was measured for everyone within a few years we would know who benefits from satins instead of just giving them to everyone.

There may also be a test coming out to show who is most likely to get the side effects of statins, hopefully, it will be at a price the NHS is willing to pay, as it would avoid a lot of issues if these people were not given statins in the first place.

At present statin use is like using a machine gun without aiming to shoot rats without first checking if there are any rats about on the given night.......

 

[Daphne917]

Why? You simply need to tell your Dr that you don't want statins (as @Bluetit1802 did). In doing that, they won't ask you to come in for blood tests when your TC skyrockets, nor waste their time giving you advice that you're never going to take heed of.

I have the statins discussion at every review despite telling my DN that I will not take them again due to the complications caused when I did take them - she even agrees that this information is on my notes but still tries to persuade me that I should take them.

 

[badcat]

I had a massive adverse reaction to an antibiotic some years ago which sent my levels of creatinine kinase ( marker of muscle damage) go higher than the hospital had ever seen which made my muscles sieze up - the one good side of it is that my consultant has ruled that I should never be given statins due to the risk of further muscle problems

 

[Patricia21]

Hi folks some advice for me please,My nurse wants me on satins and I have refused at the moment.serum cholesterol 5.2 HDL 2..1 LDL 2.6 triglycerides 1.1

 

[Art Of Flowers]

Hi folks some advice for me please,My nurse wants me on satins and I have refused at the moment.serum cholesterol 5.2 HDL 2..1 LDL 2.6 triglycerides 1.1

I wouldn't bother. My cholesterol to over 6, but 3 months later 4.8 after cutting back a little on eggs and cream and taking one a cholestragard supplement once a day. Take plant sterol supplements if you are worried about cholesterol. They don't have the nasty side effects that statins have.

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi folks some advice for me please,My nurse wants me on satins and I have refused at the moment.serum cholesterol 5.2 HDL 2..1 LDL 2.6 triglycerides 1.1

Patricia - You could try inputting your numbers in the hughcalc site. It might give you an insight into your rations and so on, which current thinking feel is at least as important as any single number.

http://www.hughcalc.org/chol-si.php

Only you can decide if you want to try statins.

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi folks some advice for me please,My nurse wants me on satins and I have refused at the moment.serum cholesterol 5.2 HDL 2..1 LDL 2.6 triglycerides 1.1

Obviously it is your decision but if those were my numbers and especially if I were an older female (which I'm not) there would be absolutely no reason for me to take statins.

 

[Pinkorchid]

but they do not for diabetic patients

Well they work for me cholesterol well down from over 7 to 5.1 and my last HbA1c was 41 when I was diagnosed it was 46

 

[Mike d]

I did say it was my opinion ... and I live with the consequences of taking them

 

[AtkinsMo]

There's are no circumstances where I would take statins and I refuse the blood test. The research on statins is so inconclusive and of very questionable quality. It is sometimes very hard to keep respecting doctor's who won't engage in the discussion, just keep regurgitating the same old same old NICE guidelines. My advice would be, just don't go, save yourself the grief!

Here's a nice short little part of a presentation by Aseem Mulhotra that I watched just this morning.

 

[Guzzler]

There's are no circumstances where I would take statins and I refuse the blood test. The research on statins is so inconclusive and of very questionable quality. It is sometimes very hard to keep respecting doctor's who won't engage in the discussion, just keep regurgitating the same old same old NICE guidelines. My advice would be, just don't go, save yourself the grief!

Here's a nice short little part of a presentation by Aseem Mulhotra that I watched just this morning.

"There is a possibility that no one benefits from taking statins". Says it all for me.