LCHF ....... PUTTING WEIGHT ON...... BG GOING UP

Muzzer

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157
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hi
I just completed the Ne2cadtle diet and was very successful.
Plan was to switch to LCHF diet.
Now been approx 3 weeks and I’ve put on 10lbs and my fasting BG now 10.8 (was sub 6)

I am clearly doing something wrong

Are there any figures to aim for regarding how much fat, protein, etc one should consume per day
Or do you eat as much fat as you want and just keep the carbs low?

How do you do a LCHF diet and maintain weight I.e. Not put weight on and not lose weight either?
 

Guzzler

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It is very personal, I'm afraid. When I first started I aimed for under 100 carbs per day but as I had already cut out the big nasties we've all learned about, rice, pasta, potatoes and anything made with flour, 100 carbs was a little too easy so I went for under 75 carbs per day. I gradually reduced that to my current 35-45 carbs per day. Sometimes it is 25 or less it just depends on what I want to eat.
I have only increased my animal fat a bit because tbh I liked it before dx but I switched from marg back to butter, now fry a lot of things in lard instead of industrial oils and save my olive oil and cold pressed rapeseed oil for dressings.
The other thing I am looking into now is my protein level. As you know, too much protein means the liver will turn that excess into glucose so I need to find my personal threshold for that. It is a learning curve specifically because we all have to find our own best levels within LCHF. Take heart, I am only five months from dx and I have learned a lot just by tweaking amounts.

You put so much work into ND and I am so sorry that you've hit this hiatus in your efforts to improve your Diabetes. When Dr. Taylor's results come out in December he may reveal more about the transition from the diet to a 'normalised' way of eating. Best wishes.
 

DCUKMod

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I reversed my Type 2
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Hi
I just completed the Ne2cadtle diet and was very successful.
Plan was to switch to LCHF diet.
Now been approx 3 weeks and I’ve put on 10lbs and my fasting BG now 10.8 (was sub 6)

I am clearly doing something wrong

Are there any figures to aim for regarding how much fat, protein, etc one should consume per day
Or do you eat as much fat as you want and just keep the carbs low?

How do you do a LCHF diet and maintain weight I.e. Not put weight on and not lose weight either?

Muzzer - To be clear, it is a while since I read Professor Taylor's work end t end, so I may have missed sme revisions, however, I do believe he signposts the potential for a modest weight adjustment immediately following the ND, due to the changes in eating patterns and styles. For example, duing the NF our bodies simple don't have masses of food on board/in transit.

Without any appreciation of your interpretation of LCHF it would be difficult for anyone to make an educated stab at what might be causing these rises. Perhaps if you could let us know the sorts and sizes of meals you are having these days it could help.

There's little doubt that the transition period can be tricky, and of course nobody wants to find themselves in a yo-yo style loop, but it is a risk with any extreme, time-based approach. That isn't saying the ND is an inappropriate approach. I'm not saying that at all. It's just a risk to be carefully managed.
 

Muzzer

Well-Known Member
Messages
157
Type of diabetes
Type 2
It is very personal, I'm afraid. When I first started I aimed for under 100 carbs per day but as I had already cut out the big nasties we've all learned about, rice, pasta, potatoes and anything made with flour, 100 carbs was a little too easy so I went for under 75 carbs per day. I gradually reduced that to my current 35-45 carbs per day. Sometimes it is 25 or less it just depends on what I want to eat.
I have only increased my animal fat a bit because tbh I liked it before dx but I switched from marg back to butter, now fry a lot of things in lard instead of industrial oils and save my olive oil and cold pressed rapeseed oil for dressings.
The other thing I am looking into now is my protein level. As you know, too much protein means the liver will turn that excess into glucose so I need to find my personal threshold for that. It is a learning curve specifically because we all have to find our own best levels within LCHF. Take heart, I am only five months from dx and I have learned a lot just by tweaking amounts.

You put so much work into ND and I am so sorry that you've hit this hiatus in your efforts to improve your Diabetes. When Dr. Taylor's results come out in December he may reveal more about the transition from the diet to a 'normalised' way of eating. Best wishes.
So I have to keep my protein down to what sort of level? Is there a general guideline/starting point to go for?
What does “Dx” mean?
My carbs have been kept low. So low, I haven’t logged them, e.g. I have one protein roll per day (less than 10g per roll). I have a protein meal replacement for breakfast. (0.6g carb, 23.3g protein)
Tonight I am having baby corn, carrots and Ostrich steak, the latter has 0.3g carbs in the 150g steak.. I decided because my carbs were so low, I could have 4 egg-sized new potatoes with the above. I have had an OXO I drink and a large cup of tea with a drop of full fat milk.
 

Muzzer

Well-Known Member
Messages
157
Type of diabetes
Type 2
in my experience, the larger the number of cups of veggies I get into the diet, the better the sugar results
I agree, if the veggies are low starch/above ground in general as they are low carb. Potatoes are below ground veg and relatively high in starch and carbs so not eating a lot of that sort of veg
 

Muzzer

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Messages
157
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Muzzer - To be clear, it is a while since I read Professor Taylor's work end t end, so I may have missed sme revisions, however, I do believe he signposts the potential for a modest weight adjustment immediately following the ND, due to the changes in eating patterns and styles. For example, duing the NF our bodies simple don't have masses of food on board/in transit.

Without any appreciation of your interpretation of LCHF it would be difficult for anyone to make an educated stab at what might be causing these rises. Perhaps if you could let us know the sorts and sizes of meals you are having these days it could help.

There's little doubt that the transition period can be tricky, and of course nobody wants to find themselves in a yo-yo style loop, but it is a risk with any extreme, time-based approach. That isn't saying the ND is an inappropriate approach. I'm not saying that at all. It's just a risk to be carefully managed.
Thanks for the reply,
What does NF mean?
Is there a link to Prof. Taylor’s work?
I can relate to and expected an increase in weight after the ND but wasn’t anticipating the Elevated BG to this degree, which is my main concern.
I am going to try and log carbs, protein and fats more accurately like I did when on ND
Are there limits that I should be aiming for at least initially?
Please see my reply to Guzzler’s post regarding food intake.
 

bulkbiker

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I agree, if the veggies are low starch/above ground in general as they are low carb. Potatoes are below ground veg and relatively high in starch and carbs so not eating a lot of that sort of veg
as are carrots...even baby corn is lightly suspect.
Also you have been on a "starvation" diet (ND) for 2 months.. I don't find it surprising that you are putting on a few pounds.. how many did you loose while on the ND?
 

Muzzer

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Messages
157
Type of diabetes
Type 2
If you have carbs that turn into stored glucose (glycogen) it also stores water with it so weight goes up quickly. You may have to be on a VLC diet if you want to keep the weight down. From what I've read people will regain some weight but it seems like around 8 or 10 lbs. The BG is higher than I'd expect. Do you have a count of daily carbs, protein, fats?

I'm of the opinion (and I'm still studying it) that you have to keep track of carbs + proteins and calories if you want to have tight control and have good visibility of what your body's doing in response to food intake.

In your case it may take longer for your system to bounce back from a long period of T2 and medications. In the ND material there were some T2s that did not reverse their D; they were in the 10+ years; there were many others that did well too. Also the latest protocol stretches out to 12 weeks for some.

All things considered it seems like going on a VLC to eliminate any source of glucose would be good. You must have some beta cell function or else your BG would be through the roof. And it's apparent you're burning fat so VLC should not be a problem for you.

It'll be good to hear what others have to say.
Thanks for your input No2D, My Weight was where I wanted to be, I just didn’t expect BG to rise so much. I have started running and this is helping to bring weight down a few pounds and as I increase my running, hopefully this will help maintain weight and contribute to lowering BG but I know exercise alone won’t do it.
I realise I really need to understand lchf much more than I do currently.
But this was expected, I thought if I kept the carbs down while I go through the “Low carb program” things would be ok, but BG going up faster than I thought it would.
 

Guzzler

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Dx is short for 'Diagnosis'.

The secret to low carb is to test and test again. I can't do potatoes of any kind (yet) and sweet corn is off my list, too. At my stage of carb counting I aim for 10 carbs or fewer per 100g of weight.

As to protein, well this is proving a little more finicky for me. I still have a lot of questions about quantities, myself. And the question of neoglucogenesis has raised its ugly head so for the moment I have not lowered the amount of eggs that I eat but I have slightly lowered the portion of meat on my plate. Until I get my head around the protein issue I can't advise, sorry.
 

Brunneria

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Hi @Muzzer.

Sorry to hear this. Must be a bit of a kick in the teeth after all you hard work with the ND. :(

Can i ask how you transitioned from ND to LCHF?

From what ppl have said on the forum, i understand that Prof. Taylor is now suggesting that ppl make a slow incremental transition, rather than just switching. Maybe you did this?

I'm going to tag in @Chook because she is in the process of coming off the ND and will know much more about it than I.
 

Muzzer

Well-Known Member
Messages
157
Type of diabetes
Type 2
as are carrots...even baby corn is lightly suspect.
Also you have been on a "starvation" diet (ND) for 2 months.. I don't find it surprising that you are putting on a few pounds.. how many did you loose while on the ND?
Agreed but my point was that the amount of carbs consumed today, I don’t think was high. When I was on the ND I went from 15st 2lbs down to 12st 6lbs.
I expected a weight increase when I came off NDand am working on halting the Wright increase. My main concern is the BG rising. Bringing the weight back down will assist the abs levels I know, but not to the degree that BG will drop sub 6 I wouldn’t have thought.
I am wondering if there are some other things I should be looking at, I.e. levels of fats, proteins, calories and not just levels of carbs when doing lchf?
 

Muzzer

Well-Known Member
Messages
157
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hi @Muzzer.

Sorry to hear this. Must be a bit of a kick in the teeth after all you hard work with the ND. :(

Can i ask how you transitioned from ND to LCHF?

From what ppl have said on the forum, i understand that Prof. Taylor is now suggesting that ppl make a slow incremental transition, rather than just switching. Maybe you did this?

I'm going to tag in @Chook because she is in the process of coming off the ND and will know much more about it than I.

Hi
Thank you for your reply.
I had read that one should aim at approx 30% of your intended normal diet when coming off the ND for the first week, with gradual increases up to “normal” lchf diet levels.
“What is normal lchf level?” - Well I began Diabetes.co.uk low carb program and they recommended 120-150g as opposed to the NHS guideline which practically double this.

One thing that I am learning from every bodies replies, for which I am extremely grateful and appreciative, is thatI need to record and log my food intake/carbs more accurately and monitor BG before and after..... “Eat to the meter” I believe is the expression.

But I could do with knowing about recommended daily protein, fat, levels etc that I should be (or should I?) be also monitoring?
 

DCUKMod

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Staff Member
Messages
14,298
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
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Thanks for the reply,
What does NF mean?
Is there a link to Prof. Taylor’s work?
I can relate to and expected an increase in weight after the ND but wasn’t anticipating the Elevated BG to this degree, which is my main concern.
I am going to try and log carbs, protein and fats more accurately like I did when on ND
Are there limits that I should be aiming for at least initially?
Please see my reply to Guzzler’s post regarding food intake.

Yes, NF was a typo for ND, which is, of course, Professor Taylor's work.

What happens with your bloods will likely depend on a number of factors. When trying anything different, to me, it makes sense to record everything, so that when you come to your review phase, then you have data to review that might show trends - good or bad - that you might want to capitalise on or work on.


Personally, I wouldn't like to tell you what level of carbs to target. I mean, why go to 20gr carb a day, if you achieve good results on 50, 80 100 or 150. You have to decide where to start, but be prepared to modify over time.
 

Muzzer

Well-Known Member
Messages
157
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Yes, NF was a typo for ND, which is, of course, Professor Taylor's work.

What happens with your bloods will likely depend on a number of factors. When trying anything different, to me, it makes sense to record everything, so that when you come to your review phase, then you have data to review that might show trends - good or bad - that you might want to capitalise on or work on.


Personally, I wouldn't like to tell you what level of carbs to target. I mean, why go to 20gr carb a day, if you achieve good results on 50, 80 100 or 150. You have to decide where to start, but be prepared to modify over time.
Thanks.
What about protein and fats?
I read somewhere one doesn’t have to count calories on LCHF, what about the rest?
Are there limits/guidelines?
 

bulkbiker

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Agreed but my point was that the amount of carbs consumed today, I don’t think was high. When I was on the ND I went from 15st 2lbs down to 12st 6lbs.
I expected a weight increase when I came off NDand am working on halting the Wright increase. My main concern is the BG rising. Bringing the weight back down will assist the abs levels I know, but not to the degree that BG will drop sub 6 I wouldn’t have thought.
I am wondering if there are some other things I should be looking at, I.e. levels of fats, proteins, calories and not just levels of carbs when doing lchf?

I have no experience of the ND apart from my own low carb version that revolved around eggs, cheese and bacon. I always find that fasting helps bring my blood sugars down (to the extent that I didn't eat until this evening and registered at 4.1 this afternoon). So maybe try not eating breakfast and I would definitely not have a protein shake maybe just coffee with cream or tea with a low carb milk like lactofree. Then eat LCHF for lunch and dinner. Give that a week or so.. and see how you get on.
 

Resurgam

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Perhaps the Atkins diet might help - there are three weightloss stages, starting off very low carb and gradually tapering off the weightloss and entering maintenance. It is one of the few diets - the only one I have actually any experience of which puts as much emphasis on maintenance as losing.
One thing which I have learned is that I need to source my carbs from those foods used for weightloss and not try to eat those which stopped me losing - I did Atkins for decades before diagnosis, whenever I could get away with doing it, my doctors being so anti low carb.
You can find copies of the books on line to download. I use the last edition of New Diet Revolution, it has lots of foods, recipes and menus as well so it is a useful resource.
 
S

serenity648

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Thanks.
What about protein and fats?
I read somewhere one doesn’t have to count calories on LCHF, what about the rest?
Are there limits/guidelines?
I have to count calories as well as carbs on my LCHF diet to keep my weight going in the direction i want it to. Some people may find they dont have to count calories too, but i am not one of those people.
 

Brunneria

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If you are looking for a macro calculator, then you could do much worse than this one:
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/DietMakeupCalc.php
But... I would say that following the ND your entire system will be in flux, and generic guidance like this is very unlikely to apply until things have settled - so please take it as a very rough guide. :)
 

Zilsniggy

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Hi
Thank you for your reply.
I had read that one should aim at approx 30% of your intended normal diet when coming off the ND for the first week, with gradual increases up to “normal” lchf diet levels.
“What is normal lchf level?” - Well I began Diabetes.co.uk low carb program and they recommended 120-150g as opposed to the NHS guideline which practically double this.

One thing that I am learning from every bodies replies, for which I am extremely grateful and appreciative, is thatI need to record and log my food intake/carbs more accurately and monitor BG before and after..... “Eat to the meter” I believe is the expression.

But I could do with knowing about recommended daily protein, fat, levels etc that I should be (or should I?) be also monitoring?

There are various sites for calculating the Macro nutrients in your diet.
You need to know height, weight, exercise levels and some require body fat percentages.
Proteins are usually anywhere from 0.6g per kilo of body weight to about 2g per kilo, depending on your activity levels.
Fats are usually calculated as being the highest percentage of your diet, followed by Protein, then carbs.
I follow a ketogenic diet whereby I eat no more than 20g carb in a day. I eat a moderate amount of protein, (around 50-60g)and the rest is made up of healthy fats such as butter, olive oil, avocados etc. The fat helps to keep me full.
Can I also suggest that if your protein levels are a bit too high that this can lead to higher sugars too?
Another culprit as well, can be exercise, as some people find their sugars higher after exercise.
Check out DietDoctor.com for useful info. Also remember you must count total carbs and not net, as some people digest fibre and those carbs get into their bloodstream as glucose.......it's a funny old condition, but the more you read the more you understand. I wish I'd started eating this way years ago.
 
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Kristin251

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There are various sites for calculating the Macro nutrients in your diet.
You need to know height, weight, exercise levels and some require body fat percentages.
Proteins are usually anywhere from 0.6g per kilo of body weight to about 2g per kilo, depending on your activity levels.
Fats are usually calculated as being the highest percentage of your diet, followed by Protein, then carbs.
I follow a ketogenic diet whereby I eat no more than 20g carb in a day. I eat a moderate amount of protein, (around 50-60g)and the rest is made up of healthy fats such as butter, olive oil, avocados etc. The fat helps to keep me full.
Can I also suggest that if your protein levels are a bit too high that this can lead to higher sugars too?
Another culprit as well, can be exercise, as some people find their sugars higher after exercise.
Check out DietDoctor.com for useful info. Also remember you must count total carbs and not net, as some people digest fibre and those carbs get into their bloodstream as glucose.......it's a funny old condition, but the more you read the more you understand. I wish I'd started eating this way years ago.
I 100000000% agree. Completely what I do. I use .8 g per kg lean body mass for protein. Carbs (obviously raise me, so 20g). Protein 45 g and enough fat to satisfy. Always an avocado a day. Exercise spikes me now.
 
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