No carbs or Carbs?

[noblehead]

Claridge,

Experience will tell you that you still need some QA insulin even with the lowest carb meal, in the absence of carbs protein will convert to 60% glucose eventually so insulin is needed just the same. Most of the carb counting exercises on DAFNE will be irrelevant if you are a strict low-carber, but the sick-day rules and the consultants questions and answers day should still be of interest.

Enjoy the rest of your week!

Nigel

 

[claridge]

So l found out today that the reason why they say not to count veg and salad is because...you background should remain stable through the day and all food's you eat if no carb - Veg and salad are considered no carb for this purpose becuase they have a carb content of less than 10g and the background will cover this. One of the guys's on my course is on 30 units of background a day and is injects teh same as the others 1-1 (10g carbs=1unit of Novorapid) whcih is what Daphne state it should be with the correct insulin regime - and he tried a test of steak and egg for lunch and his Blood sugar completely unchanged! And he told me he rarely hypo's!

 

[cugila]

Have I missed something here ? If your pal ate only Steak and eggs then io wouldn't have expected there to be much, if any difference in bg levels. Next time ask him to have some Roast Spuds, Parsnips and carrots with it. Io think you will find then there would be a difference. Quite a few carbs which according to DAFNE should be ignored ........

My levels never rise after a Steak and small salad. Add some veggies as above and boy do they climb !

 

[claridge]

After a steak and salad my BS would rise... l wonder if lm on the correct background dose - l have 12 at 7pm which is perfect upon rising but l need to test if it is working correctly during the day... l think lm going to have to eat breakfast then no food/Novorapid or excercise for rest of day... its going to be a tough experiment but worthwhile!!

 

[cugila]

Hi claridge.
I would probably tend to agree with you however it does beg the question what your salad consists of. ?I avoid anything carby (salad creams/ coleslaw etc) and only a couple of small cherry Toms with salad leave, cucumber, sliced peppers. Hence no rise. Maybe its just me.

 

[claridge]

I would only have olive oil and no tomatoes also l think. Oh great another problem....

 

[phoenix]

After a steak and salad my BS would rise... l wonder if lm on the correct background dose - l have 12 at 7pm which is perfect upon rising

Obviously you need to check your basal during the day as well
My glucose levels would also rise with that meal, if I didn't bolus. As I've said before, maybe even in this thread a no carb English Breakfast for me needs a similar amount of insulin to my normal porridge. Eggs are the worst culprits for me and if I have boiled eggs with toast I would have to account for both the eggs and the toast. If you look up Fergus's old posts, I think that you will find that he needed to bolus for his low carb meals.
For me, I can't see that it's the background that is wrong . A recent period with a Cgms showed it didn't vary by much when the active insulin had stopped working at about 4 hours.(except after exercise) If I go to bed at 5mmol I wake at around 5mmol and the line was almost flat. Personally, the only answer seems to be that the protein effects my glucose levels far more than some authorities say it should do!

As for not bolusing for under 10carbs, 1gcarb will raise my glucose by about 50mg/dl (2.7mmol) so 9 g carb(an average biscuit) would raise it by 25mg/dl (1.4mmol). If I were at 4mmol, then I wouldn't bolus, if I were above above 6 and it was 3 hours or more since a bolus then I would.It's what I've worked out works for me.

Sorry not DAFNE approved, and thinking about it, perhaps it's best for you to follow their guidance for the time being, keep an open mind. If it doesn't work then you can look to vary things later.

 

[Debloubed]

Have I missed something here ? If your pal ate only Steak and eggs then io wouldn't have expected there to be much, if any difference in bg levels. Next time ask him to have some Roast Spuds, Parsnips and carrots with it. Io think you will find then there would be a difference. Quite a few carbs which according to DAFNE should be ignored ........

My levels never rise after a Steak and small salad. Add some veggies as above and boy do they climb !

I was never told to ignore veg, I was told to consider portion sizes. Obviously, everyoneknows that a potato is carbs so needs to be counted (even me!). I learned on my course that if I eat 1 slice of raw carrot, no insulin needed. If I eat a big, heaped serving spoon portion, then I should calculate the weight of the food in grams x the carbs in the food per 100g and then divide by 100 - then dose as per your own, personal ratio - simples! as with everything diabetes related, DAFNE or similar courses are very personal and need to be tailored as such, the info they give is basic and simple. I adapt and use it as a background method, and frankly, I'd be lost without it!

 

[cugila]

I totally agree with you deb. I think where any confusion rises is because the information given on the individual courses can be patchy - hence we get T1's who are not clear what to do. You get one person saying ignore all veg and othes saying only certain ones. No wonder this is a common question.

BTW - we have had a member who thought Spuds didn't matter ! She was very confused !

 

[noblehead]

BTW - we have had a member who thought Spuds didn't matter ! She was very confused !

Do potatoes count then Ken? :?

Nigel :wink:

 

[cugila]

BTW - we have had a member who thought Spuds didn't matter ! She was very confused !

Do potatoes count then Ken? :?

Nigel :wink:

Only if they are VERY well educated Nigel. wink: .

The lady concerned had some very odd ideas - she has never been back !
:

 

[noblehead]

Only if they are VERY well educated Nigel. wink: .

The lady concerned had some very odd ideas - she has never been back !
:

I'll tell you something, when I was first diagnosed I was given the basic information regarding the old system of carbohydrate exchanges (10g of carbs) and I am sure I was told that 1 egg equalled one exchange, so when I ate eggs (i.e scrambled using 2 eggs) I would count this as 2 exchanges. Back then postprandial hypo's were common for me, and it wasn't until 2-3 years later that I read they contain no carbs whatsoever! :roll: Lesson learnt I think, but I am never one to pass the blame and I may have misheard the DSN!

Nigel

 

[claridge]

I have started testing... with my increased background to 12 units l am eating meals with no fast acting insulin... as its under 10gs of cars... so far this is working and only injecting rarely... l included a sausage and a capuccino in my normal lunch.
Still lots of experimenting to do - whether l need to reduce night time and give myself some in the morning etc - but lm really fascinated that l can eat low carb meals with no insulin and am still not going low.

 

[noblehead]

I have started testing... with my increased background to 12 units l am eating meals with no fast acting insulin... as its under 10gs of cars... so far this is working and only injecting rarely... l included a sausage and a capuccino in my normal lunch.
Still lots of experimenting to do - whether l need to reduce night time and give myself some in the morning etc - but lm really fascinated that l can eat low carb meals with no insulin and am still not going low.

Interesting and very unique I would imagine for a type 1, could I ask how long have you been diagnosed?

Nigel

 

[claridge]

About 2 years ago - however should this not be the case for all of us that our background could cover up to 10gs of carbs... l do actually think that l dont need that amount of insulin as my blood sugar is a little lower when l get up than when l go to bed... so still thinking about reducing the 7pm background and having some in the morning as well. Daphne believes that we should be able to eat low carb meals without any quick acting insulin and 2 of the guys tested it and it worked for them as well. I didnt realise how important it is that the background is at the correct level. If this is the case by taking a little bit more background insulin and not having to take quick acting (if low carb only) then why not - not having so many injections isnt so big a deal as the not having to worry so much.

I dont know if its something anyone else wants to experiment with...

 

[claridge]

Interesting - my BS has been going up again to needing novorapid but l havent done any exercise for over a week - back to the exercise me thinks! And try and get back to not needing Novorapid..

 

[artyfarty30]

A message for Claridge...or anyone else who can answer my questions

I've only been diagnosed on Monday with T1, but I want to lower my carbs intake and reduce my insulin intake..I'm currently on 12units of Novopen in the morning and 6/4 Novopen in the evening. DN said she wants to lower my BG levels before boggling my mind. What I want to ask is how long before you were diagnosed were you exercising and eating low carbs? My meal/snack times are regimented and would love flexibility.

Thank you