Metformin and me.

[Tom Cosens]

I am 83 male and D2 for last 4 years and weigh 73 Kilo. Like most people metformin was a 'bummer' and changing to slow release helped a little BUT I no longer have any loose motions, almost constipated in fact if I do not drink enough water. HOW ? Doctor tried a new drug to reduce my blood sugar, average 9 -10. I was on 4 x 500mg SR Met: and 4 x 80mg Gliclazide .[insulin]. I am now on the same Met: but only 2 x 40mg Gliclazide plus a new drug 1 x 10mg Empagliflozin. No more stomach problems and BS of 7 -8. Had 6.5 one day !
I know this will confuse some people but this new drug is doing wonders for me.

 

[pollensa]

I was on Metformin for over 10 years as well as two types of insulin and apart from stomach problems when I went on to three a day it seemed to suit me, so I thought. I'm one of those people who isn't and never has been overweight and over the years my appetite wasn't very good. In May 2016 I started to feel extremely tired, more like exhausted and a blood test showed that my B12 was low. This is one of the side effects of Metformin. I had to have five B12 injections over a couple of weeks and my B12 went back up. As my appetite still wasn't good and it is known as an appetite suppressant as it's given to overweight people which I wasn't and because of the B12 deficiency I thought I would try stopping the tablets for a couple of days - it was miraculous. My appetite came back straight away so I went for a week without them but thought I had better start taking them again. When I saw my diabetes nurse for my annual checkup in January 2017 I mentioned to her that I had stopped them temporarily a few months before and she asked how my sugar levels were and when I told her that they hadn't changed she told me to stay off them so I haven't been taking them now for ten months. I don't know if my B12 went back down but presumably it didn't as it was only six months from the B12 injections to when I eventually stopped. My sugar levels have been very good lately, good in the day apart from the odd high one when I've been a bit naughty and just occasionally have to adjust my Novorapid but they can also be high before bed, but I think is might be due to the Lantus wearing off too soon.

One other problem I have recently discovered is to do with the blood pressure tablets that I have been on for many years, not that I had high blood pressure but because the doctor said that as I have a higher risk of heart disease because of the diabetes I need to be on them (yet my twin sister who also has diabetes has never been prescribed blood pressure tablets). I started on Ramipril but was changed to Amlodipine, which I have been on for six years. I am being investigated for very low levels of blood platelets and guess what, one of the rare side effects of Amlodipine is low platelets! I am seeing the Haematology consultant tomorrow and will mention to him about the link between the Amlodpine and platelets but I would have thought that my doctor should have put two and two together in all the times she has asked for the many blood tests to check my platelets. I only found out the link after reading that low platelets can be drug induced and by Googling low platelets and Amlodipine I found evidence that they do. I also read the patient information sheet that comes with the tablets and down in all the small print was that 1 in 10,000 people have low platelets. I am hoping that this is the cause and that just stopping the BP tablet will bring them back up to normal. It seems that the medication prescribed for diabetes and many other health issues is actually doing us more harm than if we didn't take them.

I'm sorry you suffered , but I am not surprised.
Metformin is a cheap drug and for some effective. I went on this a year ago when diagnosed. I have never been so unwell wretched and miserable. G.p asked me to do bloods on metformin in then bloods on same foods no metformin. No difference! I had to fight but now on sitigliptin. Amazing! No side effects of stomach pain etc.

Why don't you forget the synthetic drugs, all drugs cause side effects and they only cover up the problem anyway generally.

Change lifestyle, intermittent fast, low carbs 20 to50 a day carbs that do not include rice, potato, pasta or bread! Walk min 4 to 8 klm a day if possible, if not as much as you can.

PS, it was Blood Pressure pill that caused my sugars to raise, it was a side effect of the Pill Inpanadia, the small print, clearly states, THIS DRUG CAN CAUSE OR RAISE EXISTING SUGARS. If one is given Metformin, one has to stop this blood tablet immediately!!!!

Thank you my doctor for giving me this pill and not asking if I had diabetes, or my family or offer a blood test or in house on spot finger test, before he gave me this medication!!!

Result, my higher sugars, were caused by blood pressure pills.

Mallorca

 

[zacthedog]

Forgive me if i am wrong, but Metformin does not lower your blood sugar, it surpresses the production of sugar from the liver?

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I had to fight but now on sitigliptin.

I have been on Metformin for 20 years overall and it has caused more grief than you can imagine. I first refused to take it in 2002 and was prescribed Rosiglitazone which was even worse because I gained weight without eating more or exercising less. I told my GP at the time who thoughtfully (not) prescribed Citilapram for anxiety. My weight escalated to 165 kgs (27 st) and I didn't care (Citilapram very good for anxiety).

Luckily for me the Rosiglitazone adversely affected my liver function and I was taken off it. Weight loss started straight away, 4 stone in 4 months, then they decided to put me on Sitagliptin (Gliclazide) and weight loss stopped and I gained 10kgs. In those days I had been told quite emphatically that I shouldn't lower my carbs and in hindsight I can see that carb reduction would have been so much better than taking Sitagliptin which seemed to prevent any efforts to lose weight.

I was also prone to hypos because I was usually sticking to a calorie restricted diet, first trying 500 calories less than BMR, then 1000 calories less, then 1500 calories (about 1200 calories in total). Thankfully cutting carbs to 40 gms per day (I weigh everything and put the weights and foods into some PC software, so it's accurate) meant that I could ditch Sitagliptin, Januvia and Atorvastatin (TC also dropped). Weight loss carried on, then stopped again. It's almost like you have a preset weight that you stick to, whatever you eat or however much you exercise.

I was put back on Metformin the same time as coming off Rosiglitazone, but by then I was taking codeine for arthritic knees and muscular spasms in the back, being 27st not helping. The bunging up effect of codeine negating the Montezuma effect of Metformin, most of the time. I've cut right back on the codeine which meant the return of Montezuma. I'm now seeing if I can get some reasonable numbers again, they were running at 12 for a while, then 10 for a day or two and now 8. When I can get back to 5 to 7 which I have achieved by diet, I'll be a happy Hector.

 

[Resurgam]

I just checked my all by diet blood glucose to be sure - it is exactly 6mmol/l.
My knees are so much better than a year ago when diagnosed - I was actually dancing last night.
I used to have back spasms but stretching my spine cured them and made me 1/2 inch taller - it pulled my vertebrae back into line - but for a day or two it was very indignant.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I know this will confuse some people but this new drug is doing wonders for me.

Possibly not so confusing, but showing there are other things apart from Metformin. Metformin is obviously as cheap as chips having been first patented in 1975 so lapsed years ago. By the way, I've just edited the Wikipedia description of Metformin which use say it was "well tolerated", I changed that to just "tolerated". The side effect of "diarrhea" is now "chronic diarrhea".

As I mentioned, my pharmacist mentioned other meds available and I'll be speaking to my GP when she comes back from holiday.

I've managed to get my BG back to around 8, but anything carby (tonight's stir fry obviously would have sugar in the sauce, albeit not much) sends my BG zooming up and it's recovery to normal numbers takes a lot longer. It's effectiveness in reducing BG has been mentioned before, in my case it was effective, markedly so, I have the FS Libre to show me that.

 

[sue4les]

Thank you, I've even got a key to all those locked disabled toilets. A friend got hold of two when she had problems with Crohns, she now has a colostomy bag. Not sure where she got it from.

Amazon have got these keys for sale, I have one for my husband who is disabled and blind. Hope this helps

 

[Bogie]

I am a Type 2 in Canada (Ontario) and was not using anything up to a couple of weeks ago and had an appointment and assessment with my finally acquired Endocrinologist at a new hi-tech Diabetes management and education clinic when I was told that I needed to go on something (due to my highs and no lows - A1C 7.4) and Metformin was mentioned. I asked if there was anything else I could use as I do have mild IBS and not looking forward to what Metformin would do to my sensitive gut. I am now on Jardiance (Empagliflozine 10 mg) and no side effects at all. While my heart is great this is supposed to not only lower the A1C and but also the cardiovascular risk. Was additionally put on Crestor (a statin - Rosuvastatin 10 mg) for cholesterol although my levels are fine. Was told it would be best to lower my cholesterol now as being low is desired anyway, and at my age (69) it would most likely go up soon

Weight is not an issue as I am 6 ft tall and weigh 180 lbs (just under 13 stone) - although dropping a bit would be more comfortable.

Both Crestor and Jardiance have possible side effects and some are the same so I started first with Crestor then waited a few days before starting Jardiance. If I took both at the same time it would be hard to tell which one was affecting me. I also take Pantoprazole 40 mg for acid reflux (Gerd) so I stagger the med intake to Panto (early morning), Jardiance (noon) and Crestor (bedtime about midnight). I also take Ativan (Lorazepam) .5 mg twice per day to relax the gut so the IBS doesn't bother me (been taking Ativan for about 15 years).

I am also a kidney stone factory (simply passing many of them unnoticed) and drink a lot of water to keep the kidneys flowing. One nice side effect for me with Jardiance is that it makes me urinate more often. This should help reduce kidney stone size and creation.

Haven't been on this treatment long enough to provide proven results but will when about a month or so on both drugs has had time to do what they are supposed to do. Back to the clinic in 3 months for blood tests and checkup. Will post back with results at that time.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Amazon have got these keys for sale,

Thanks for that, when I said my friend got two I should have added that she gave one to me. Useful to know where though, I'm always losing things.

 

[DavyPaul]

I should have written them down because my brain is like a sieve (wonder what that's a symptom of, statin brain fog?).

David, were you being 'light hearted' about statin brain fog, or is this a real issue? The reason I ask, is because I think I've been having issues concentrating and it's been over the last 2 years that I've been on statins... Anyone else get this?
(I seem to have no issues with 2x500mg metformin per day, but always going to the loo!)

 

[Bogie]

David, were you being 'light hearted' about statin brain fog, or is this a real issue? The reason I ask, is because I think I've been having issues concentrating and it's been over the last 2 years that I've been on statins... Anyone else get this?
(I seem to have no issues with 2x500mg metformin per day, but always going to the loo!)

From what I see of possible side effects from Statins (in my case Crestor/Rosuvastatin) are, to quote: "A very small number of people may have mild memory problems or confusion" .... in layman's terms that would most likely be "brain fog"

That concerned me as I work with computers online all day long with a lot of detail with our business. So far no "brain fog". Also why I tried Crestor on its own before Jardiance because a possible side-effect, to quote: "... dizziness or lightheadedness may occur". The same can happen with Metformin. Again, I escaped that possible side-effect. I cannot imagine the feeling if a person has the side effect for both ... you would be in a floating daze all the time.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

David, were you being 'light hearted' about statin brain fog,

Deadly serious. As there has been a break of a couple of years in my taking of Metformin while I took Rosiglitazone (side effects have had a more serious effect on my life than the runs), I can attribute "brain fog" to the statins rather than anything else.

I see Bogie has mentioned a "very small number may have mild memory problems or confusion", I would be interested in where that little gem came from because I would dispute the use of a phrase like "very small number", I think its a lot more than that, their was a poll on this forum, perhaps a poll asking if "brain fog" is a problem is required. It's very difficult to get proper empirical evidence about the side effects because we're not allowed to see the data. The NHS recognise muscle pain/weakness, brain fog and poor sleep as the three most likely side effects.

What I'm intrigued by is that as one goes through life, one meets all sorts of different people and I've met a good few people who have taken statins. Perhaps it's a trick of my "foggy brain" but I can only remember one who said they were absolutely fine and having no side effects at all.

People who experience problems with any drug may just stop taking them and not tell their GP, like my MIL. They may even take less than the prescribed amount, I take several elderly people to Tesco once a fortnight in a minibus for our local "Good Neighbours" organisation and I hear what they do. People who have problems with a drug MUST report it to their GP and the Yellow Card system so that we can get an idea of exactly what is happening.

 

[Bogie]

I see Bogie has mentioned a "very small number may have mild memory problems or confusion", I would be interested in where that little gem came from because I would dispute the use of a phrase like "very small number", ....

Whenever I get a drug from the pharmacy I use, it is always accompanied by an information document of 2 or 3 pages listing USES, HOW TO USE, SIDE EFFECTS, PRECAUTIONS, DRUG INTERACTIONS, OVERDOSE, MISSED DOSE, etc. The pharmacist also discusses the prescription with me, what I am taking it for, what other drugs I use, etc. Canada is leaning towards Pharmacists eventually being the source of the prescription with the doctor providing the diagnosis, symptoms, etc. The wording "very small number" is from that document. To be more exact and show the wording from that document, see the image file included/attached.

It also looks like the wording is taken directly from WebMD:
https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-76701/rosuvastatin-oral/details#side-effects

From Crestor's own information page:
https://www.crestor.com/crestor-side-effects.html

• Side effects: The most common side effects may include a headache, muscle aches, abdominal pain, weakness, and nausea. Memory loss and confusion have also been reported with statins, including CRESTOR

As you mention, though, not everybody reports side effects. They just stop using and either tell it to their doctor or pharmacist who does not report it as they should. My experience with the Pharmacists is that they take it more seriously for reporting than doctors do.

So far I do not notice any side effects at all using the statin Crestor or the drug for blood glucose level control that I use "Jardiance". Jardiance is a relatively new drug that has some possible side effects similar to statins for "head effects", and is being hailed as lowering cardiovascular risks along with possible weight loss. Well, one effect of Jardiance is frequent urination so you have to know where the washroom (loo) is wherever you are

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

The wording "very small number" is from that document.

Thanks for the reference, as I mentioned I seem to keep bumping into people with problems including one personal friend who has very bad problems. An active bright and bubbly 60 year old tennis player becoming a miserable depressed person unable to play tennis is sad to see. In this particular case I'm especially annoyed because I just happened to ask if she was taking statins and she said "how did you know?". I explained and she went to her GP who said, basically, "Don't be silly". She took it upon herself to stop for a trial period and the problems went.

This is part of the problem, those who want us all to take statins and line somebody's pocket can easily poo poo anything we say because it's usually anecdotal and they've got the data under lock and key.

However, I do recognise that some people will have no problems whatsoever and that's fine, I'm happy. Of course the next question is how low should our cholesterol levels be? Based on what? Who did the research? Who makes the decision? These are all answerable questions, the information is out there. I'm keeping quiet in case I'm accused of being on a crusade! Moi? LOL

 

[Bogie]

Unfortunately, there is no "one size fits all" solution. I like thinking of our bodies as individual combination locks - everyone is different. Our age, our past and current health history, hereditary factors, lifestyle, smoker/non-smoker (past or present), injuries, mental state and mindset. Wow ... we are complex creatures. I was in a diabetes group meeting at the local clinic yesterday and what a diverse group. Newly diagnosed and long-time diabetics, minor and major personal situations, etc. So many different meters being used and varied degrees of technical abilities - and age wasn't a factor with that. While our Canadian health care system is very similar to the UK, there are some differences and because not everything is covered for the cost of diabetic treatment and monitoring it depends on the individual's ability to afford what they should be using. The new monitors like FreeStyle Libre (not approved for Canada yet but being used with about a month backlog in getting one) - and there is another called Dexcom that is similar (in fact looks better). But that is the luxury version that most cannot afford unless their personal or employer health care plan covers it, so old-school finger pricking is most common.

The roulette game of drugs is typical of "lets throw it at the wall and see what sticks". Hopefully, if there are any side-effects that they will be minor. If not then recover and try the next "miracle cure" in line until one works - or at least helps.

Earlier in this post, I mentioned "mindset". Does the diabetic 100% trust and listen to their doctor or is inquisitive, asks questions, and seeks answers because it is their life, their body, their comfort of living and finding the best solution for them without the medical system trying to fit them into the norm .... but you could be a square peg they are trying to put into a round hole. With such huge populations and therefore more healthcare needs it is almost impossible to provide tailored solutions for each person.

Before I could get access to my lab results (we now can access test results online within days of the tests) all I would hear from a doctor was "your cholesterol is on the good side of high". What? "Blood pressure is OK". What is OK? "Everything else looks fine". What is fine and what is everything else?

DavidGrahamJones sounds like you are involved in helping others - bravo! My hat is off to you. You also question "authority" and want to know about things that affect you. We are in the minority of doers, but we are the ones that help to bring about change and help others see how they can help themselves. I see many on this forum that are likewise.

As the saying goes, "Carry On!".