That is very true but think again about the theatre of war,out on patrol for hours in hot climates etc,miles from anywhere,they need to narrow the risks.One day it may change.
diabetes in the RAF
- Thread starter Retrospect
- Start Date
jamieclapton
Member
- Messages
- 9
I was diagnosed Type 1 whilst serving with the RAF. Straight to medical discharge at med board regardless of level of control which consultants had quoted as "perfect". My first Hba1c was 5.2, but that didn't matter either. Joining the RAF had been a childhood dream of mine and I had already overcome many obstacles. It's been over 2 years since I last wore the uniform and I can't tell you how much I miss it, turned my life upside down. I lie to friends and family, even my girlfriend that I don't miss it anymore and that I'm over it. Truth be told I don't think I will ever be over it. I'm now studying Occupational Therapy at Plymouth University so I can help rehabilitate injured troops, but I just don't have the buzz about my work that I had in the RAF. Just feels like everything has been downhill since diabetes. I don't know how I am meant to come to terms with loosing everything I had worked so hard for so long for.
- Messages
- 23,618
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Pump
- Dislikes
- Disrespectful people
Jamie,
That's a shame the RAF couldn't see beyond your diabetes, but the course you are now studying sounds really good and much satisfaction will come your way when you begin to rehabilitate our brave service men and women.
Good luck with everything you do in the future and do keep us informed of your progress!
Nigel
That's a shame the RAF couldn't see beyond your diabetes, but the course you are now studying sounds really good and much satisfaction will come your way when you begin to rehabilitate our brave service men and women.
Good luck with everything you do in the future and do keep us informed of your progress!
Nigel
To all service persons reading this question ! I served in the Royal Navy Submarine service and there was a lot of my friends who was struck with the same situation and that included myself when I signed on for the full 22yrs I was fully fit ,I caught a cold which is common on board and that was in the October by December I was drinking everything I could get my hands I was going to the sick bay to get something for what I know thought was a bad bout of flu and they gave me cough mixtures which consisted of syrups then in the February I went back to the sickbay because i was losing a lot of weight and lethargic it was then that they discovered that I was T1 they sent me to hospital where I was stabilised and then like all my comrades they sacked me so beware you can lose limbs you can be a raging alcoholic you can be phsycotic but you cant be Diabetic I fought the service rule but was put out with a med/pension and was left to fend for myself , there is no reason to throw out perfectly good servicemen because they cant fly or serve on ships but can serve perfectly well in shore establishments
and service bases both abroad and at home and with the right knowledge can serve their full term.
and service bases both abroad and at home and with the right knowledge can serve their full term.
All service personell first and foremost are soldiers. We can't be deployed, we can't go overseas to some countries, as some insulins are illegal in some bases.
So we can't do the job. It must be horrible for you, and i'm sorry it happened.
But that's the way it needs to stay. All the troops need to be able to fight, that's what they're for.
So we can't do the job. It must be horrible for you, and i'm sorry it happened.
But that's the way it needs to stay. All the troops need to be able to fight, that's what they're for.
Hi Retrospect,
i was kinda in the same boat as you. Joined the RAF in jan 2000 as a rigger (airframe technician) and left in sept 2007.
Came back from det and had a pretty bad bike smash 2 days later in 2002. had multiple injuries, broken femur, torn femoral artery, broken foot and ankle, cracked rib, hemorrhaged liver etc!
About a year after this went back into hospital with pancreatitis, which was later found to be caused by damage to my gallbladder which was probably caused by the crash. after having my gallbladder and part of my pancreas removed, follow up tests showed i was now diabetic (since i only now had half a pancreas) and started on tablets which worked for a while. But soon after had to start lantus and novorapid as the tablets were loosing their effect.
But to try and cut (which could be a very long story) shorter, I was med boarded and given a permanent downgraded med cat. I was told that i since i was on insulin that meant i was not eligible to sign onto 12 or anything else beyond my 9 year stint. There were also restrictions on where i could be sent on det, mainly any active OP. I was still able to go on training dets, went to davis montham in arizona, romainia and saudi, post diagnosis. But this was only after my Sengo spoke to the med officer and was assured my diabeties was under control.
Not sure if you also drive In MT, but their think there may be restrictions on driving any of the wagons.
Bl**dy hell think thats probably the biggest lump of text ive ever put in a forum! Good luck with whatever the outcome is btw.
Andy.
i was kinda in the same boat as you. Joined the RAF in jan 2000 as a rigger (airframe technician) and left in sept 2007.
Came back from det and had a pretty bad bike smash 2 days later in 2002. had multiple injuries, broken femur, torn femoral artery, broken foot and ankle, cracked rib, hemorrhaged liver etc!
About a year after this went back into hospital with pancreatitis, which was later found to be caused by damage to my gallbladder which was probably caused by the crash. after having my gallbladder and part of my pancreas removed, follow up tests showed i was now diabetic (since i only now had half a pancreas) and started on tablets which worked for a while. But soon after had to start lantus and novorapid as the tablets were loosing their effect.
But to try and cut (which could be a very long story) shorter, I was med boarded and given a permanent downgraded med cat. I was told that i since i was on insulin that meant i was not eligible to sign onto 12 or anything else beyond my 9 year stint. There were also restrictions on where i could be sent on det, mainly any active OP. I was still able to go on training dets, went to davis montham in arizona, romainia and saudi, post diagnosis. But this was only after my Sengo spoke to the med officer and was assured my diabeties was under control.
Not sure if you also drive In MT, but their think there may be restrictions on driving any of the wagons.
Bl**dy hell think thats probably the biggest lump of text ive ever put in a forum! Good luck with whatever the outcome is btw.
Andy.
Hello m8, I read your post & it has brought back a lot of memories for me. I was in the Army for 9 years until 5 years ago & it was all I had ever wanted to do. I left because, you guessed it, I came back from a tour, became mega ill & collapsed, the cause?, Type 1 Diabetes. I was 27. It absolutely broke my heart. I was farmed out to all branches & services but 1 by 1 they all said "NO". They said I could leave of my own accord or be put in stores & stack blankets, I would not be MD'd. I didn't join 2 sit in stores so signed off, I wasn't allowed to go on tour or exercise, I wasn't even allowed out of camp for 2 months!. It was very harsh treatment. However, if I hadn't have got T1 I would not be a civvy, if I wasn't a civvy I wouldn't be married & if I wasn't married I wouldn't have 2 beautiful kids. A year after leaving I was accosted by a lady, in a nice way!, @ a county show I drifted into when out for a walk with my future wife. This lady turned out to be from something called ' The Veterans Agency '. The long & the short is that after a medical & an interview, I am now classed by the MOD as being ' disabled ' ( laughable really as I run 6 miles a day!!! ). I get a pension every month, it isn't a lot & I put it into an account for that inevitable ' rainy day '. What I'm trying to say is that I was in your boots not too long ago. I've done the whole " why me " thing & got so down I didn't think I could get back up. I'm still struggling with it now but getting loads more help than I did from the Army/MOD. There are people out there that will help & things WILL get loads better mate!. Sorry for waffling!. If you are ever stuck then drop me a line, I've done it all & not too long ago. Al.
scoots
Active Member
- Messages
- 39
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
Hi Retrospect,
Thanks for your posts. I think there is a particular issue of people being diagnosed as adults with T1, especially the impact on their working life. I was diagnosed 2 years ago aged 35 and just new in post at a job I loved which also had a lot of responsibility, and have been so angry and frustrated that my brain just doesn't work in the same way it did before I was diagnosed; yours must be even more so knowing that you could lose the job you enjoy.
This months Diabetes UK magazine Balance has an article on life in the army with T1 diabetes, which you may be interested in. You can actually read it online (although I think you may need to register, not sure):
www.diabetes.org.uk/How_we_help/Magazines/Balance/
If you can't access it, send me a message and I will copy it for you (can do it online).
I hope it all sorts out for you; often just knowing what will happen (whether good or bad) is a huge relief, although they may well be holding off until things are more settled (taking into account the effect of any honeymoon period) in order to make a decision.
Have a good week,
Jen
PS I'm feeling a little calmer about it all now - I just had to find strategies to manage the effects within my working life, and have had good support from my employers; it can still be immensely frustrating, though!
Thanks for your posts. I think there is a particular issue of people being diagnosed as adults with T1, especially the impact on their working life. I was diagnosed 2 years ago aged 35 and just new in post at a job I loved which also had a lot of responsibility, and have been so angry and frustrated that my brain just doesn't work in the same way it did before I was diagnosed; yours must be even more so knowing that you could lose the job you enjoy.
This months Diabetes UK magazine Balance has an article on life in the army with T1 diabetes, which you may be interested in. You can actually read it online (although I think you may need to register, not sure):
www.diabetes.org.uk/How_we_help/Magazines/Balance/
If you can't access it, send me a message and I will copy it for you (can do it online).
I hope it all sorts out for you; often just knowing what will happen (whether good or bad) is a huge relief, although they may well be holding off until things are more settled (taking into account the effect of any honeymoon period) in order to make a decision.
Have a good week,
Jen
PS I'm feeling a little calmer about it all now - I just had to find strategies to manage the effects within my working life, and have had good support from my employers; it can still be immensely frustrating, though!
jopar
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,222
alaric
I'm surprised that the Army wouldn't medically discharge you, and it then after you left disabled you and given you a pension..
When my husband left the RAF in 1977, he was medically discharged he could have opted to serve the reminder of his contract but as you said he wouldn't have been allowed on active duty, but instead sit in an office pushind paperwork...
His medical discharge assessement, classed his T1 diabetes as being 19.5% disabled to gain his pension rights he had to be 20% disabled...
So wonder what the difference is
I'm surprised that the Army wouldn't medically discharge you, and it then after you left disabled you and given you a pension..
When my husband left the RAF in 1977, he was medically discharged he could have opted to serve the reminder of his contract but as you said he wouldn't have been allowed on active duty, but instead sit in an office pushind paperwork...
His medical discharge assessement, classed his T1 diabetes as being 19.5% disabled to gain his pension rights he had to be 20% disabled...
So wonder what the difference is
Hey Jopar, I have no idea to be honest!. I see a thread throughout this discussion in that everyone has been treated in a wide variety of ways by the MOD, whichever service they have served, there is absolutely no consistency. Whilst I am nowhere near disabled there is no way in knowing what will happen in the future. I do remember people turning slightly pale when it transpired I had handled & fired D.U rounds & they also saw the list of jabs they gave me prior to going abroad in 2003. I have no idea wether these were contributing factors but the pension decision came about very soon after!.
Hi all,
I was medically discharged from the army in 1991 becaus after a posting to cyprus I became t1.
When I first came out the army was not paying me a pension beyond my time served pension. Whcih at the time was 5 1/2 years, and was about £10 a week.
So I got in touch with the medical board and got an assesment while i was a Civvy. They decided I was 20% so I got a war disablement pension which made it up to about £50 a week. Since then I have had a couple of minor complications such as a little retinopathy treatment.
I now have a 30% assesment. my pension in total is now about £90 tax free a week. Now I know that this does not make up for the diabetes but it does help.
Remember that if you are medically discharged from the forces and feel that you are not being treated right you can complain.(youre a civilian and have the right to fight for yourself for once).
If you feel your pension is too low for your condition then appeal against it.
And remember the assesment of youre pensionable disability can be re assesed if anything changes that is caused by youre pensionable illness. So diabetic complications can be taken into account.
Please note I am not a pensions expert but talk from my own experience also I left the forces nearly 20 years ago so some things could have changed. I bet what hasnt changed is the mod s attitude that if you want them to help you, you have to make a fuss.
Any queeries about stuff like that contact:
Service personnel and veterans agency
Norcross
Thornton-cleveleys
Lancs
FY5 3WP
or
www.veterans-uk.info
as for the why get discharged for diabetes, wether you like it or not you are more likely to have problems that make you less able to carry out your dutys and this could be very problimatical with the kind of dutys that the forces place on you. Not to mention health considerations of what happens if you get seperated from your insulin while at war?
I know when I came out of the army they had to offer me a re settlement placing. which was training or a job placement for a period of time. I dont know if they still do this and I know there was a time period of service to qualify.
And lastly WELL DONE THE BRITISH FORCES past and present still the best in the world.
Hope this info can help any serviceman or woman that gets diabetes.
Pef.
I was medically discharged from the army in 1991 becaus after a posting to cyprus I became t1.
When I first came out the army was not paying me a pension beyond my time served pension. Whcih at the time was 5 1/2 years, and was about £10 a week.
So I got in touch with the medical board and got an assesment while i was a Civvy. They decided I was 20% so I got a war disablement pension which made it up to about £50 a week. Since then I have had a couple of minor complications such as a little retinopathy treatment.
I now have a 30% assesment. my pension in total is now about £90 tax free a week. Now I know that this does not make up for the diabetes but it does help.
Remember that if you are medically discharged from the forces and feel that you are not being treated right you can complain.(youre a civilian and have the right to fight for yourself for once).
If you feel your pension is too low for your condition then appeal against it.
And remember the assesment of youre pensionable disability can be re assesed if anything changes that is caused by youre pensionable illness. So diabetic complications can be taken into account.
Please note I am not a pensions expert but talk from my own experience also I left the forces nearly 20 years ago so some things could have changed. I bet what hasnt changed is the mod s attitude that if you want them to help you, you have to make a fuss.
Any queeries about stuff like that contact:
Service personnel and veterans agency
Norcross
Thornton-cleveleys
Lancs
FY5 3WP
or
www.veterans-uk.info
as for the why get discharged for diabetes, wether you like it or not you are more likely to have problems that make you less able to carry out your dutys and this could be very problimatical with the kind of dutys that the forces place on you. Not to mention health considerations of what happens if you get seperated from your insulin while at war?
I know when I came out of the army they had to offer me a re settlement placing. which was training or a job placement for a period of time. I dont know if they still do this and I know there was a time period of service to qualify.
And lastly WELL DONE THE BRITISH FORCES past and present still the best in the world.
Hope this info can help any serviceman or woman that gets diabetes.
Pef.
Hi there, I read your post about returning from Op's with Diabetes, I am serving in the Army and after returning from Jordan in 1999 I became unwell. The usual signs, weight loss, constant thirst and the sudden onset of thrush but got told by Med centre I had a virus and was given the good old story take two of these and come back in a week. I went from 13stone to 7 1/2 stone in two weeks (best diet ever). I was told that there was no space in the Army and that I would be discharged, however 11 years and two promotions later I am still here, don't get me wrong the career has been a battle field I have had to branch off in all directions in order to continue in my job. I am non-deployable which for an infantry man is the worst ever as you miss out on all the crack that happens when the boys are away. Now that Pat 10 is in I am very much like you I don't know if I am looking for a job in civie street or staying where I am. I think the worst thing about having diabetes in the forces is that you cant see it so when your bloods are wrong and you don't take part in one PT session then you feel everyone looking at you, even though they probably aren't. My sole aim in the Army now is to do every course that other people do and show that diabetes is not going to stop me having a career and if it comes to discharge then i have numerous courses under my belt that says i am as good if not better than my counterpart.
hope you get answers soon as i know how frustrating it can be to wait.
hope you get answers soon as i know how frustrating it can be to wait.
Hi there,
I got diabetes in the army and was advised to leave. It's a long time ago now, nearly 20 years. So I can't even remember who gave me the advice. I've regretted it ever since as I know now that I could have stayed in and depending on what job you do it shouldn't be a problem.
Once you learn to control it, you're able to do most things. I go hillwalking and camping a lot, so that's squite strenuous.
It would be a problem in jobs at the sharp end, such as combat operations, or think of your own scenarios.
The plus side is that I got a pension, but I wish I'd never left to be honest, cos once you're out it's hard to get other jobs, especially in uniformed roles.
So make sure you weigh up any advice you're given. Think longer term and what your options are likely to be.
All the best.
blonagael
I got diabetes in the army and was advised to leave. It's a long time ago now, nearly 20 years. So I can't even remember who gave me the advice. I've regretted it ever since as I know now that I could have stayed in and depending on what job you do it shouldn't be a problem.
Once you learn to control it, you're able to do most things. I go hillwalking and camping a lot, so that's squite strenuous.
It would be a problem in jobs at the sharp end, such as combat operations, or think of your own scenarios.
The plus side is that I got a pension, but I wish I'd never left to be honest, cos once you're out it's hard to get other jobs, especially in uniformed roles.
So make sure you weigh up any advice you're given. Think longer term and what your options are likely to be.
All the best.
blonagael
snag
Member
- Messages
- 9
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Other
I was medically discharged from the RAF in Sep 2009, as a result of getting type 2 diabetes and then developing peripheral neuropathy. Please message me at (e-mail address removed) if you would like to ask me anything about what happened to me.
Hello gents,
It seems that a few of you have been out for a while so i thought i would add this to keep you in the loop. A bit about me first....
I was diagnosed with Type 1 during a two month exercise in BATUS in August 2009. I too experienced the same symptoms..weight loss, thirst and lack of energy. On my return i was diagnosed and downgraded for an initial period of 12 months subject to a review. My chain of command was very understanding and there was no mention of termination of service.
Since then i have been upgraded to P3 MLD. (For those oldies out there - Medically Limited Deployability). This technically means you are permanently downgraded (P3) and that depending on a Medical Risk Assessment (MRA - Appendix 26) you can still deploy. Eg - if you have a whizz at IT and server building he may be able to deploy to a HQ location in KABUL but not FOB in Helmand.
After being upgraded to P3 MLD i then volunteered for a tour in Qatar. Not the most hostile of environments and my job at the time involved network planning and ops room based work - Hardly a FOB in Helmand. Prior to deploying i carried out all the necessary paperwork and medicals to ensure i was deploying with the right MRA and that my new chain of command were aware of my condition. On arrival i reported to the MO in theatre and gave him a brief and presented him with a copy of my MRA - No problems thus far!!!
3 months into the tour the MO in theatre changed over and a new guy took his place (RAF Doctor). On his arrival he reviewed his flock of patients and decided that i was a risk to operational stability and decided he would no longer uphold my MRA. Instead of consulting me in the first instance he flagged me to SO1 MED at PJHQ as an 'immediate risk and must be Aeromed'. The shock on the Comd's face when he got the call informing of the decision process that had gone on without his or my knowledge was rather interesting. The letter the MO had drafted to PJHQ contained the following:
1. The heat here is too much for this soldier to control his levels - God forbid if a diabetic goes to Spain for a short break!
2. The US forces add sugar and salt to all their food (including the water) and therefore it will be impossible for him to control his levels.
3. The physical work involved daily (Ops room planning) will lead him to having bad control and he will not be able function - I think he was actually referring to some of the RAF lard arses based down at the flight line. I used to run 10km three times a week with the Comd in 40' degree heat.
4. If all the power fails we will not be able to refridgerate his insulin. A US Airbase with 12,000 personnel is not likely to lose power for any length of time.
These reasons would be valid to someone who is a complete diabetic mong however, i have had excellent blood results on average of 6.1%. At no time had i given the medical staff cause for concern or become a medical liability.
To summarise - I was treated with no respect throughout the whole process and was eventually removed from theatre and replaced to the annoyance of the team i was working for. I was given a formal written apology from PJHQ and told to 'crack on'. The original MO (Full Col) was in battle with the MO in theatre with the outcome being 'i'm on the ground in theatre and what i say goes'.
After reading numurous entries in Defence medical journals there is still no line in the sand with regard to diabetics in the forces. I am currenlty still P3 MLD and soldier most of the blokes around me into the ground (armed with wine gums at all times of course). The line in the sand would have to be -
Check with your regular MO, get he / she to liaise with the MO in theatre, once they are happy you will then have to sit a Medical Occupational Health board which then ascertains whether they can provide primary health care to you whilst deployed. Once they are happy you will then be presented with you MRA - Appendix 26.
After close reflection on this whole fiasco it basically comes down to - Whoever is the chair at the time and whether he / she is happy!
It seems that a few of you have been out for a while so i thought i would add this to keep you in the loop. A bit about me first....
I was diagnosed with Type 1 during a two month exercise in BATUS in August 2009. I too experienced the same symptoms..weight loss, thirst and lack of energy. On my return i was diagnosed and downgraded for an initial period of 12 months subject to a review. My chain of command was very understanding and there was no mention of termination of service.
Since then i have been upgraded to P3 MLD. (For those oldies out there - Medically Limited Deployability). This technically means you are permanently downgraded (P3) and that depending on a Medical Risk Assessment (MRA - Appendix 26) you can still deploy. Eg - if you have a whizz at IT and server building he may be able to deploy to a HQ location in KABUL but not FOB in Helmand.
After being upgraded to P3 MLD i then volunteered for a tour in Qatar. Not the most hostile of environments and my job at the time involved network planning and ops room based work - Hardly a FOB in Helmand. Prior to deploying i carried out all the necessary paperwork and medicals to ensure i was deploying with the right MRA and that my new chain of command were aware of my condition. On arrival i reported to the MO in theatre and gave him a brief and presented him with a copy of my MRA - No problems thus far!!!
3 months into the tour the MO in theatre changed over and a new guy took his place (RAF Doctor). On his arrival he reviewed his flock of patients and decided that i was a risk to operational stability and decided he would no longer uphold my MRA. Instead of consulting me in the first instance he flagged me to SO1 MED at PJHQ as an 'immediate risk and must be Aeromed'. The shock on the Comd's face when he got the call informing of the decision process that had gone on without his or my knowledge was rather interesting. The letter the MO had drafted to PJHQ contained the following:
1. The heat here is too much for this soldier to control his levels - God forbid if a diabetic goes to Spain for a short break!
2. The US forces add sugar and salt to all their food (including the water) and therefore it will be impossible for him to control his levels.
3. The physical work involved daily (Ops room planning) will lead him to having bad control and he will not be able function - I think he was actually referring to some of the RAF lard arses based down at the flight line. I used to run 10km three times a week with the Comd in 40' degree heat.
4. If all the power fails we will not be able to refridgerate his insulin. A US Airbase with 12,000 personnel is not likely to lose power for any length of time.
These reasons would be valid to someone who is a complete diabetic mong however, i have had excellent blood results on average of 6.1%. At no time had i given the medical staff cause for concern or become a medical liability.
To summarise - I was treated with no respect throughout the whole process and was eventually removed from theatre and replaced to the annoyance of the team i was working for. I was given a formal written apology from PJHQ and told to 'crack on'. The original MO (Full Col) was in battle with the MO in theatre with the outcome being 'i'm on the ground in theatre and what i say goes'.
After reading numurous entries in Defence medical journals there is still no line in the sand with regard to diabetics in the forces. I am currenlty still P3 MLD and soldier most of the blokes around me into the ground (armed with wine gums at all times of course). The line in the sand would have to be -
Check with your regular MO, get he / she to liaise with the MO in theatre, once they are happy you will then have to sit a Medical Occupational Health board which then ascertains whether they can provide primary health care to you whilst deployed. Once they are happy you will then be presented with you MRA - Appendix 26.
After close reflection on this whole fiasco it basically comes down to - Whoever is the chair at the time and whether he / she is happy!
