Forgive me but I'm losing track of what point you are making. I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with something I've said but if so, I don't know what it is and I haven't understood the reasons. I've done a fair amount of homework on Taylor's work, his previous papers, the biochemistry involved, how it relates to lipid metabolism, etc, so I'm reasonably up to speed with the science. Some of his studies involved an hypothesis that he set out to disprove, as with all good investigative science. Other trials involving comparisons of efficacy or acceptability had different criteria. I'm up to speed on the design of trials. He's been working on this for many years and the recent release of data has finally put it in the limelight. His current advice to GPs and those wanting to undertake the diet is pretty clear and unambiguous so I'm very happy following it. His scientific explanations I find very convincing so for me, it's all good.
Doing the Newcastle
- Thread starter AlcalaBob
- Start Date
Day 5 Friday 15th December. FBG 7.3 Weight 101.7kg
Weight continues to drop which is pleasing. Blood is still too high. Yesterday, after reducing the insulin I had two values over 18 which persisted for hours which is not good. It indicates that for me it is still too soon to reduce the insulin so I have deferred reducing it further. I checked and this is actually something mentioned by Taylor in his research so it's nothing to panic over, just a recognition of the fact that it sometimes takes a little time. I'm keeping the insulin at yesterday's level for today to see if there is any increased control. If not, then I'll have to think carefully about reinstating it for another few days which, according to Taylor's Twin Cycle explanation, can do no harm to the process of reducing fat in the liver. Other than that minor glitch, I feel fine. My energy level seems to have recovered and I don't feel hungry and the diet doesn't seem hard to follow. In a couple of days, I'll be sub-100, almost a third of my target weight reduction in the first week. Never thought I'd see that quite so quickly. So far all good.
Weight continues to drop which is pleasing. Blood is still too high. Yesterday, after reducing the insulin I had two values over 18 which persisted for hours which is not good. It indicates that for me it is still too soon to reduce the insulin so I have deferred reducing it further. I checked and this is actually something mentioned by Taylor in his research so it's nothing to panic over, just a recognition of the fact that it sometimes takes a little time. I'm keeping the insulin at yesterday's level for today to see if there is any increased control. If not, then I'll have to think carefully about reinstating it for another few days which, according to Taylor's Twin Cycle explanation, can do no harm to the process of reducing fat in the liver. Other than that minor glitch, I feel fine. My energy level seems to have recovered and I don't feel hungry and the diet doesn't seem hard to follow. In a couple of days, I'll be sub-100, almost a third of my target weight reduction in the first week. Never thought I'd see that quite so quickly. So far all good.
Day 6 Saturday 16th December. FBG 7.4 Weight 101.1kg
Inching towards double figures with the weight. Keeping to the 800 calories without any difficulty. I think keeping busy helps because I just don't think about meals during the day. My blood stayed too high yesterday so I've reinstated the insulin. There seems no good reason to tolerate high levels while reducing weight and liver fat and since Taylor doesn't require it in his recommendations, I'll just be patient and wait for some sign of changed insulin response. I have to recognise the possibility that, since I was diagnosed in 2004, I might well now be one of the 'non-responders'. I'm not despondent about that because recovering liver functionality and losing a load of weight are serious benefits in themselves. Plenty of energy today and tomorrow I complete the first week in a very positive frame of mind. All good. Thanks everyone for helpful comments and support during the week. Much appreciated.
Inching towards double figures with the weight. Keeping to the 800 calories without any difficulty. I think keeping busy helps because I just don't think about meals during the day. My blood stayed too high yesterday so I've reinstated the insulin. There seems no good reason to tolerate high levels while reducing weight and liver fat and since Taylor doesn't require it in his recommendations, I'll just be patient and wait for some sign of changed insulin response. I have to recognise the possibility that, since I was diagnosed in 2004, I might well now be one of the 'non-responders'. I'm not despondent about that because recovering liver functionality and losing a load of weight are serious benefits in themselves. Plenty of energy today and tomorrow I complete the first week in a very positive frame of mind. All good. Thanks everyone for helpful comments and support during the week. Much appreciated.
Day 7 Sunday 17th December. FBG 7.0 Weight 102.0kg
First time the weight has inched up a little but the trend is still all good. No doubt it will continue to drop steadily next week and for the rest of the eight weeks. I've kept rigorously to the 800 calorie limit mostly coming in around 750. No big glucose numbers yesterday after restoring the insulin dosage so I think it was worth doing. I've seen the first appearance of "Go on, have some of this, just this once, it won't make any difference, you need some variety..." Well-meaning, but...
First time the weight has inched up a little but the trend is still all good. No doubt it will continue to drop steadily next week and for the rest of the eight weeks. I've kept rigorously to the 800 calorie limit mostly coming in around 750. No big glucose numbers yesterday after restoring the insulin dosage so I think it was worth doing. I've seen the first appearance of "Go on, have some of this, just this once, it won't make any difference, you need some variety..." Well-meaning, but...
Week 2 Day 8 Monday 18th December. FBG 5.2 Weight 102.5kg
Very pleased about the glucose level. This is with my normal dose of long-acting insulin taken first thing in the morning. No other meds. Since day 1 I've only had one other number in the 5s so this is a substantial drop. If this signals some improved liver response then I'll be able to reduce my dose but I want to see it maintained during more than one day before I make the move. I'm monitoring it closely. The weight seems to have temporarily settled so it's probably compensating for early water loss. I'm not concerned because it's still a big weight loss over a single week and if it continues at that rate for the next few weeks, I'll be well on the way to my target. So all positive. I still have a hacking cough which is slowly getting better. Feed a cold? Starve a fever?
Very pleased about the glucose level. This is with my normal dose of long-acting insulin taken first thing in the morning. No other meds. Since day 1 I've only had one other number in the 5s so this is a substantial drop. If this signals some improved liver response then I'll be able to reduce my dose but I want to see it maintained during more than one day before I make the move. I'm monitoring it closely. The weight seems to have temporarily settled so it's probably compensating for early water loss. I'm not concerned because it's still a big weight loss over a single week and if it continues at that rate for the next few weeks, I'll be well on the way to my target. So all positive. I still have a hacking cough which is slowly getting better. Feed a cold? Starve a fever?
Peerless67
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 206
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
Great progress @AlcalaBob, the cold probably is not helping your numbers but you seem to be doing great. I will be following your progress good luck.
Thanks @Peerless67. Seeing your account of successfully completing the ND has been a real boost. Hopefully yours, mine, and similar accounts can continue encouraging other people.
This is a very inspiring thread. Somebody close to me has just been diagnosed with diabetes,and I am showing this thread to show some inspiration. love how the weight and bloodsugar readings correlate
Week 2 Day 9 Tuesday 19th December. FBG 5.0 Weight 102.2kg
Only the tiniest drop in weight but that's OK as long as the trend is down. I'm sticking resolutely to the limit so no reason to think it won't work. Just need to be patient. The blood number is the best I've seen in a very long time. It's the second day of low numbers and the highest number yesterday was 8.2 so this morning I reduced my insulin again. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning. My hacking cough will surely have pushed the numbers up a little so it's particularly pleasing to see the 5.
Only the tiniest drop in weight but that's OK as long as the trend is down. I'm sticking resolutely to the limit so no reason to think it won't work. Just need to be patient. The blood number is the best I've seen in a very long time. It's the second day of low numbers and the highest number yesterday was 8.2 so this morning I reduced my insulin again. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning. My hacking cough will surely have pushed the numbers up a little so it's particularly pleasing to see the 5.
Week 2 Day 10 Wednesday 20th December. FBG 4.9 Weight 101.1kg.
Excellent blood level and that's on a reduced insulin dose so I'll maintain that lower dose for a few more days and then consider reducing it further. It's the first in the 4s since I started the ND. Checking my records, I can't find a 4 at any time in 2017 or 2016. The weight loss seems to have commenced again. Still inching towards double figures but nothing to be done except waiting and sticking to the plan. Clearly something good is happening.
Excellent blood level and that's on a reduced insulin dose so I'll maintain that lower dose for a few more days and then consider reducing it further. It's the first in the 4s since I started the ND. Checking my records, I can't find a 4 at any time in 2017 or 2016. The weight loss seems to have commenced again. Still inching towards double figures but nothing to be done except waiting and sticking to the plan. Clearly something good is happening.
Bluetit1802
Legend
- Messages
- 25,216
- Type of diabetes
- Treatment type
- Diet only
Very interested in your progress, @AlcalaBob, and so pleased for you. Am going to be following along, and really hope it works out just the way you want.
I'm very positive about it. The way I see it is that even reducing the blood sugar for the duration of the diet is an enormous benefit, eight weeks of near normal values instead of accumulating secondary complications. Continuing it after that will be starting to reverse the effects of neuropathy, kidney problems, etc. It's something to be very positive about. So I'm turning that recognition into positive commitment.
Week 2 Day 11 Thursday 21st December. FBG 4.6 Weight 102.0 kg,
Another excellent blood level, the fourth consecutive drop in as many days so I have again reduced my insulin. I'm now at 45 units, down from the original 56. I'll maintain this another couple of days to monitor it before considering a further reduction. Yesterday, after a shake, my level hit 11 but then came down again within 90 minutes which indicates a good response. That's a big change from five or six days ago when a rise would have persisted for some time. The non-existent weight loss is starting to be a bit disappointing. I'm strictly controlling the calories and yet I'm still hovering around 102kg. I'm as active as usual, out walking each day, but with massively reduced calorie intake so logically I should see some weight loss. And yet... Of course, I'll stick to the plan, no question. But this plateau is unexpected and not especially welcome. I'm puzzling about what is happening metabolically. I'm not seeing any muscle loss and I don't feel short of energy. I'm thinking it could well be a side-effect of the continual insulin dose so as my blood sugar stabilises and I can reduce the dose, perhaps weight loss will follow suit. Maybe something will happen in the next few days.
Another excellent blood level, the fourth consecutive drop in as many days so I have again reduced my insulin. I'm now at 45 units, down from the original 56. I'll maintain this another couple of days to monitor it before considering a further reduction. Yesterday, after a shake, my level hit 11 but then came down again within 90 minutes which indicates a good response. That's a big change from five or six days ago when a rise would have persisted for some time. The non-existent weight loss is starting to be a bit disappointing. I'm strictly controlling the calories and yet I'm still hovering around 102kg. I'm as active as usual, out walking each day, but with massively reduced calorie intake so logically I should see some weight loss. And yet... Of course, I'll stick to the plan, no question. But this plateau is unexpected and not especially welcome. I'm puzzling about what is happening metabolically. I'm not seeing any muscle loss and I don't feel short of energy. I'm thinking it could well be a side-effect of the continual insulin dose so as my blood sugar stabilises and I can reduce the dose, perhaps weight loss will follow suit. Maybe something will happen in the next few days.
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This shows you are losing fat from your liver.
The shakes contain enough protein to enable an increase in muscle hence you may be converting fat into muscle.
The issue is that "weight loss" is of no importance what we care about is the fat in our organs, but we don't have a way to measure the fat content of our liver etc. Hence everyone talks about "weight loss" as the two often goes together.
Yes, the blood sugar is certainly the very positive evidence that my liver is recovering functionality and that only comes from losing the fat deposited there. Putting my biochemical hat on, I can see various possible explanations for what I'm seeing. I could be losing fat at the same time as retaining fluid after an initial fluid loss so the composition of my weight is changing, losing fat but not seeing the scales change. Or there could actually be a desposition of fat continuing because of the effects of the insulin. If this was enough to compensate for the fat loss, the liver would still show signs of improvement but the adipose tissue wouldn't yet thin out. Lipid metabolism is never a straight in-out process but over time, with a thinned down properly functioning liver, a net energy deficit will necessarily reduce adipose deposits. If the liver is not properly thinned down, that energy equation gets skewed, hence all the counter-intuitive results from historic trials about obesity and dieting. My money is on fluid retention and the presence of insulin.
The alternative about muscle building because of the quantity of protein in the shakes is a possible contender providing that there were muscle-building activities going on, such as using weights, exercise, or tissue repair after an injury. Without those being present, there seems a lack of a metabolic reason why the protein would be diverted from simple metabolism to release energy. A protein surplus doesn't automatically get directed to building muscle tissue, it gets metabolised like everything else and enters the metabolic pathways so something has to divert the resources to muscles building and I can't yet see a reason for that. So I suppose, as ever, it's wait and see.
I think substantial weight loss is very important to me as well as the restored blood glucose control because, as Taylor pointed out, if we don't get and stay below our fat threshold, we won't maintain control. That's why he stressed losing 15% of body weight or around 15kg. So for me at least, it certainly isn't of no importance. The blood control is vital but for me so is the substantial weight loss because without the latter, I'm not sure how it's possible to maintain the former.
Thanks for you helpful comments and for sparing the time to think about it. Much appreciated.
I think the issue is that the weight loss is needed to get below the personal fat threshold, but if you just had a doctor cut you open and remove fat from under your skin to reduce weight, it would not work. So the weight loss is a means to an end, not an end itself.
Just keep going as you are now and you will get there.
Just keep going as you are now and you will get there.
Yes, I think that's what I said so we're in agreement. Clearly weight loss unrelated to lipid metabolism is not what we're about. I doubt that anyone on this site contemplates such weight loss as it clearly conflicts with the aims of the ND.
Week 2 Day 12 Friday 22nd December. FBG 4.9 Weight 103kg.
Another excellent blood reading which effectively didn't go up when I reduced the insulin so I've reduced it again this morning, down to 40 units, from an original 56 units. So over a period of five days, my blood has come down from over 7 to under 5 and I've reduced the daily insulin dose by 16 units, clear evidence that the liver is recovering insulin sensitivity. I've been reading up Taylor's research and it seems that those with diabetes for longer periods, take longer for the liver recovery phase. I was diagnosed in 2004 so it's no surprise that the process is taking more than a few days. I couldn't reasonably have expected a precipitous fall in BG, nor in weight. It takes a little while. So I'm not worried at all about the weight. As @Roytaylorjasonfunglover has said, the weight is subject to many factors and so a daily measure is probably somewhat misleading. There's no way I'm going to jump ship or start tweaking the diet. I'm barely a fortnight in but already the blood levels are incredible. I haven't seen these numbers in very many years. So all still very positive.
Another excellent blood reading which effectively didn't go up when I reduced the insulin so I've reduced it again this morning, down to 40 units, from an original 56 units. So over a period of five days, my blood has come down from over 7 to under 5 and I've reduced the daily insulin dose by 16 units, clear evidence that the liver is recovering insulin sensitivity. I've been reading up Taylor's research and it seems that those with diabetes for longer periods, take longer for the liver recovery phase. I was diagnosed in 2004 so it's no surprise that the process is taking more than a few days. I couldn't reasonably have expected a precipitous fall in BG, nor in weight. It takes a little while. So I'm not worried at all about the weight. As @Roytaylorjasonfunglover has said, the weight is subject to many factors and so a daily measure is probably somewhat misleading. There's no way I'm going to jump ship or start tweaking the diet. I'm barely a fortnight in but already the blood levels are incredible. I haven't seen these numbers in very many years. So all still very positive.
