Can Neuropathy be reversed?

[IveGotaHeadache]

Hi, I'm a newbie to the site! I've had type 1 for 32years. Last 10 years I've had no control at all due to anorexia/bulimia and I'm a bi-polar depressive :shock: . Lots of side effects now. Neuropathy in feet, legs, bladder, bowl and left hand. Got my self together (at last!!). Can good control reverse nerve damage or at least prevent further damage? (you reap what you sow!)

 

[cugila]

Hi.
Welcome to the Forum. Have a good look around. There is a new section about Diabetes Complications where there are a couple of thread pertaining to different types of Diabetic Neuropathy.

In the meantime here is a link to a very informative site all about the different Diabetic Neuropathy's.

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/neuropathies/

As for your question.........certain types CAN be reversed or controlled by having good Bg control. If your control is good and you still get the pains.....then it is most likely yours isn't one of them. There may be another reason for the pains.

BTW, I do hope your headache goes soon.......... :wink:

 

[noblehead]

Not sure if neuropathy can be reversed, but certainly improved bg and tighter control will lessen the effects over time. I had problems with diabetic retinopathy which started around 10 years ago, since I started to tighten my control I have had no problems for the last few years and got the all-clear again only 2 weeks back. Retinopathy can't be reversed (i.e cured) but my consultant says with tighter control it can go into remission and is therefore not active for the time being, but I think neuropathy is a different ball game all-together so hopefully someone with experience may offer you further advice.

Nigel

 

[cugila]

Should have made myself clearer Nigel.....when I said reversed or controlled I was talking about the symptoms......not the actual condition. Sorry !

Symptoms may get worse when blood glucose is first brought under control, but over time, maintaining lower blood glucose levels helps lessen symptoms. Good blood glucose control may also help prevent or delay the onset of further problems.

 

[noblehead]

Should have made myself clearer Nigel.....when I said reversed or controlled I was talking about the symptoms......not the actual condition. Sorry !

Symptoms may get worse when blood glucose is first brought under control, but over time, maintaining lower blood glucose levels helps lessen symptoms. Good blood glucose control may also help prevent or delay the onset of further problems.

It's OK Ken, I wasn't writing in reference to your post it was in reply to the OP, but yes I agree that the symptoms should lessen with lower bg levels but as with most things in life there are no guarantees.

Nigel

 

[DazG]

Can a doctor give you anything to relieve the problem?

 

[cugila]

Can a doctor give you anything to relieve the problem?

Daz........if you check out the link I posted earlier there is a section about treatment options.

Here is a link to the particular section:

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/n ... #treatment

Doctors usually treat painful diabetic neuropathy with oral medications, although other types of treatments may help some people. People with severe nerve pain may benefit from a combination of medications or treatments. Talk with your health care provider about options for treating your neuropathy.

 

[DazG]

Excellent, thank you

 

[IveGotaHeadache]

Hi, I was prescribed amitriptyline a few years ago for pain in my legs. A young junior Dr told me that it wasn't all that bad. I quickly pointed out that if he had pain 24hours a day, every day he would be a lot more understanding and less likely to annoy his patients. He felt bad enough to buy me a cup of tea!!
The drug did at long last stop the pain, and what a relief. The other neuropathy sites are numb with their own problems. But its the bladder control which is the most upsetting. I'll look at the info you've recommended, thanks for your comments

Giving up sweets (smoking) is easy. I've done it hundreds of times. George Burns.

 

[TheSparkyPony]

From personal experience, I've found the numbness never goes, but the other symptoms (tingling etc) do fade with tighter control.
I'm on Amitriptyline and Gabopentin for my neuropathy which does help... slightly x

 

[robertconroy]

10 years ago I had pretty bad neuropathy in my feet and some in my hands. I went to 4 different doctors and no one could figure it out. Then I went on the internet and figured out I probably have diabetes. I went back to my GP and did an A1C and I was right. Getting my blood sugar under control and taking alpha lipoic acid got rid of most of my symptoms. I learned the ALA can't help damaged nerves but it helps my body produce new ones. ALA also helps prevent other diabetes damage as it is the body's master antioxidant and can actually redux vitamins C, A, E, and glutathion. It's quite facinating to read about. The best book ever written on the subject I've found is called: The Antioxidant Maracle by Lester Packer. Everyone should read this book, especially if you have diabetes. Cinnamon is the third highest antioxidant food on the ORAC scale. Cloves is number one.

 

[Soundgen]

Diabetic Neuropathy ,retinopathy and nephropathy are all cause by lack of vitamin B1 which all diabetics Type 1 and type 2 only have 25% of normal , to avoid all of these take B1 supplements daily ! either as ordinary cheap B1 or as Benfotiamine , if you are using Insulin you will need to reduce your insulin input , my friend Gerry reduced his Insulin form 8 units to 5 units , there are many posts on the forum which show use of B1"cures " retinopathy , and that taking B1 as benfotiamine causes hypos ! This is because getting B1 in you drops your BG

 

[Soundgen]

My Neuropathy has reduced to virtually nil with B1 as Benfotiamine !

 

[daisy1]

If you take Vitamin B complex does it have the same beneficial effect as benfotiamine or B1? I ask this because this is what I am taking as I understand that Metformin depletes your supply of
B vitamins.

 

[cugila]

Diabetic Neuropathy ,retinopathy and nephropathy are all cause by lack of vitamin B1 which all diabetics Type 1 and type 2 only have 25% of normal , to avoid all of these take B1 supplements daily ! either as ordinary cheap B1 or as Benfotiamine , if you are using Insulin you will need to reduce your insulin input , my friend Gerry reduced his Insulin form 8 units to 5 units , there are many posts on the forum which show use of B1"cures " retinopathy , and that taking B1 as benfotiamine causes hypos ! This is because getting B1 in you drops your BG

Really........that's not what the medical establishment says......

What is diabetic neuropathy?
Neuropathy means nerve disease or damage. Diabetic neuropathy is nerve damage caused by diabetes. People with diabetes often have high blood sugar levels. Over time, high blood sugar levels can damage nerves throughout your body.

http://diabetes.webmd.com/tc/diabetic-n ... c-overview

What causes Diabetic Retinopathy?
Diabetes damages small blood vessels throughout the body, leading to reduced blood flow. When these changes affect the tiny blood vessels in the eyes, diabetic retinopathy may develop.

http://diabetes.webmd.com/tc/diabetic-retinopathy-cause

What causes diabetic nephropathy?
The kidneys have many tiny blood vessels that filter waste from your blood. High blood sugar from diabetes can destroy these blood vessels. Over time, the kidney isn't able to do its job as well. Later it may stop working completely. This is called kidney failure.

http://diabetes.webmd.com/tc/diabetic-n ... c-overview

First of all the above refutes your assertion that a lack of Vit B1 is the cause of all the things you have mentioned ?

Secondly, there is simply no mention of a lack of Vit B1 being a cause at all. Some Diabetics MAY be deficient in Vit B1......I'm certainly not. I have been tested. So to say all Diabetic's T1 and T2 are is a rather odd claim.......... I remember a small trial using about 90 people back in 2007, but that clearly stated that more research was needed. Do you have anything more recent perhaps ?

The common denominator here appears to be 'high blood glucose levels'.........not a lack of Vit B1.(Thiamine)

Do you have a reputable source for the assertion you make please ? We would be interested to view that.

A supplement such as you mention MAY help in controlling Bg levels, then again, as we are all different it also may not.

 

[Soundgen]

Yes all the links you place are correct , the small blood vessels are damaged by AGE's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_g ... nd_product

AGe's are prevented in the body by the Pentose phosphate pathway http://rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/MBW ... entose.htm which needs Transketolase , production of this needs Vitamin B1

The Pentose Phosphate pathway uses lots of Glucose

 

[Soundgen]

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents ... d_vitamin/

 

[Soundgen]

Lack of B1 for whatever reason , alcohol , maladsorption , dietary lack , fast removal from the body , leads to shutdown of transketolase production and increase in AEG's hence small blood vessel damage and then retinopathy , Neuropathy and nephropathy ,it increases Bg levels and probably leads to Type 2 diabetes , as Bg levels constantly increase this probably leads to Insulin intolerance or inefficiency ( my surmise no evidence except my Bg reduction with B1 and my friend Gerry's reduction in Insulin levels and various posts on the forum about B1 stopping Retinopathy )

 

[cugila]

Hi soundgen.

All interesting stuff.......that last link was from August 2007. Do you have anything more recent. I mean, if you read it it makes many assumptions based on a study of a total of just 74 Diabetic patients and 20 normal healthy control subjects.

Diabetic patients (26 type 1 and 48 type 2) with and without microalbuminuria and 20 normal healthy control volunteers were recruited

This is what was the conclusion.......

Low plasma thiamine concentration is prevalent in patients with type 1 and type 2 diabetes, associated with increased thiamine clearance.

In other words widely or commonly occurring........not in everybody as you stated.

If someone is actually deficient in B1 (Thiamine) then it is right that they would need a supplement, however as stated before if you are not in any way deficient why would anyone need a supplement ?

The man himself said........

Researchers at Warwick Medical School, University of Warwick, have discovered that deficiency of thiamine – Vitamin B1 - may be key to a range of vascular problems for people with diabetes.

I don't think anybody will argue against that statement, what is key is the word MAY........also those that actually HAVE a deficiency. Now I have been tested and will get the test again in the New Year. If it is shown that I am deficient then I may have to have a supplement.......if I am not then I won't. Up to now after 14 yrs as a T2 Diabetic........I never have been. If I need one......it will be prescribed, certainly not something bought off the net or OTC.

Your pre-occupation with Benfotiamine as something we all should take makes me wonder why, do you have any connections with the sale and marketing of the stuff.

A fair question I think....... :|

 

[phraedus]

This significant decrease had been previously masked as the conventional way of assessing levels of thiamine status was to measure the activity of an enzyme called transketolase in red blood cells. Past studies had seen normal activity of this enzyme and assumed normal levels of thiamine when in fact the normal enzyme activity was due to increased amounts of two proteins THTR-1 and RFC-1 that help transport thiamine into red blood cells. The increased levels of these proteins were a direct response to there being a deficiency of thiamine in the body.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/researchers_find_vitamin/

So if the kidneys are hyperfiltrating thiamine and the conventional method of assaying B1 is being masked by these two protiens you may in fact be deficient thinking you are not.


for a more in depth look at benfotiamine this a a google scholar search it details studies for the polyneuropathies associated with diabetes

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?start=90&q=benfotiamine&hl=en&as_sdt=2000