DIABETES AND DRIVING LICENCE QUESTIONS

[Irishsmurfy]

Hi all

My husband is an insulin reliant diabetic since the age of 2 (on pump treatment for the past 28 years). He had laser treatment on both eyes 28 years ago and has regular checkups at the various diabetic clinics. (He's 46 now).

He has, up until now, always held a 3 year renewable licence. This February his licence was up for renewal again - but unfortunately he failed the visual field eye test. He has always had trouble with the field of vision test as it involves flashing lights on a board - and as a result of his laser treatment this is an ongoing problem for him. When we got the letter from the DVLA we were shellshocked - no driving will possibly mean no job soon as he is self-employed . Since the letter arrived in March I've been taking time off my job to drive him to wherever he needs to get to, but obviously this can't be a long term solution or I'll need to give up work completely. Public transport isn't really an option either as he has so much stuff he needs to bring with him. He apparently missed 2 clusters of lights in the test so obviously this was a fail.

The DVLA said we could get a 2nd test done at the opticians - which we did. The lady in the opticians said he failed to see 1 cluster of lights this time - but apparently 2 sets is a fail but 1 set can be acceptable?? We sent off the results to the DVLA again - but today we've heard back that they are still revoking his licence based on his test results. The strange thing we found was that the optician even said to us that his eyesight itself had actually improved in the past year - and as such his prescription for glasses has been reduced.

Is there any point in taking this to a magistrates court for a final decision (especially as it affects his life to such a degree) or do we need to give up now? He hasn't had any driving accidents in the past 5 years and doesn't drive at night. Is there any possibility of getting a dawn to dusk licence - or do you advise us to just accept it (as you can imagine its very difficult!!).

I'd love to know if anyone has ever had a successful outcome of this going to the magistrates court - or if I'm just grasping at straws.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cugila]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news........

There have been appeals against DVLA decisions but Medical ones such as you mention are not usually successful unless you have some really good expert evidence to back up what you say. Anecdotal evidence would not be accepted. On the face of it IMHO there would be little point in appealing. The Magistrates will not overrule a Medical decision taken by the DVLA normally.

You should take legal advice over this from a Solicitor who is an expert in Road Traffic matters, not just the local Solicitors' who usually haven't a clue when things start getting technical.

I know it sounds harsh and I am sure you and your husband will be caused a great deal of hardship....but that is what the Medical rules are there for. To protect them from themselves and to protect other road users. There is no such thing as a 'dawn to dusk' licence in the UK, you just have to be fit to be able to hold the licence. No more.

Ken

 

[JohnoHynes]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

I too am in the same position as your husband. I had my licence revoked last October. I too submitted a second fields test which was also rejected.

I asked my consultant for his help on the matter. He arranged for a fields test to be done at the hospital but has just written to me to say that there were still defects in the area which made the DVLA take the decision to revoke my licence. Obviously he feels there is no point in taking this any further.

I have now written to the DVLA to see if there are any other tests that can be done. I do have difficulty in concentrating on the Esterman tests and also I have now used three different machines, all of which were a little different in the way they operated.

The whole thing came as a huge shock to me as I can tell no significant difference in my eyesight. It does annoy me that the DVLA medical team make their decision on, basically, a print out of a chart. I feel there should be further tests available.

I know the rules have been relaxed for people who have had visual fields defects for many years and have adapted to their condition. This relaxation of the rules does not apply to people with retinopathy or glaucoma as these are considered to be progressive diseases. The fact that many people with retinopathy may have been stable for several years does not seem to make any difference.

If I find out any more on this issue I'll try to let you know.

John

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Probably not entirely scientific but may be of some use is this online field test, you can print out the results.


On Line Eye Field Test

 

[hanadr]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

My husband had to do the visual field test and fortunately he passed, but If he'd failed, he wouldn't have argued it. So he does have his license, however, he doesn't drive after dark,from his own choice. If we go somewhere, I have to drive. It isn't wise for anyone whose vision is not up to standard to be driving.
My sight is fine, with glasses, but I had to test my ABS system last week, when someone coming the other way deccided to turn right at a mini roundabout and signalled at the very last moment. with poor vision, there would have been a collision.
Hana

 

[dontpanic]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Unfortunately I have also suffered the wrath of the DVLA medical board.
I have had the visual field test in 2005 2009 and 2010.
2005 was 85% efficient and a pass, 2009 was 61% efficient and a pass, but this year was better than last at 71% but failed.
This has made life very difficult and its good weather at the moment. I now have to cadge lifts or use several busse to commute to work and to get to diabetic ,kidney and podiatry clinics which together with all the normal trips for shopping I increasingly get tired cased by the kidney and heart problem.
I do hold down a full time GRAPHIC DESIGN job but now my car is banned all these medical trips cause ahuge loss of hours whereas they did not previosly cost many hours.
When winter comes I will suffer standing in the cold waiting for busses which could worsen all my ills when I could have been travelling in confort in my warm dry car.
The DVLA have received all these comments but insist that I would be a danger to myself and others by driving with better eyesight than last year.
The problem we diabetics appear to have is that once you have failed there is little prospect of ever passing, however if you are a criminal who speeds and break other rules even drink you may eventually get behind the wheel. The visual field test is not even realistic as eyes are not normally fixed on a target but usually continually scan a scene so things like the normal blind spot does not interfere with normal peoples vision.
With the aging population being encouraged to work and presumably commute after 65 they may have to relax the rules soon although they have not banned any alcohol use making it illegal to drive.
Good Luck we all need it!

 

[Magill]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

I too was subjected to the joys of dealing with DVLA and I did comment at the time that a drunk driver got their licence reinstated easier than a medical case.
In my case it had been revoked due to the spinal cord injury resulting from my tangle with the foreign lorry. At that stage I had limited sensation in both legs and feet so fair enough - driving a manual car when you can't feel the pedals is not something to be recommended (although since I couldn't even get out of the house at that stage without someone to support me there was no chance of it happening).
My battle started post surgery. I did everything they told me to do and it took 18 months to get my "amended" licence reinstated (I can't drive a manual now). I was told at the time that my only route was to continue to be pleasant and polite to DVLA and keep submitting the evidence. My assessments were carried out at the local SMART centre and they did a report for DVLA (not sure whether these centres are just for spinal injury or not). My complaint was DVLA kept losing things and every letter I got was from a different person who always seemed to be asking for something that had already been returned to them. I made sure I had copies of everything, I sent everything "signed for" and I faxed the stuff to them as well. You won't get them to move unless they are satisfied so you have to pass their tests as that is all that matters.

 

[Irishsmurfy]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Hi all

I thought I'd come back here and update - just to give people hope really!!

Hubby got his licence back today !!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Only for 12 months - but it's better than no licence at all. (then we'll go through it all over again!).

We really did have to battle for it though .

The saga began back in March when the DVLA orginally revoked his licence following a fail on the field of vision test. We had the test redone in April but the DVLA told us on the phone that the test wasn't good enough so the licence wouldn't be reinstated. However - what they didn't tell us on the phone was the reason the test wasn't accepted was that Boots opticians had done the wrong eye test!! When we got the rejection letter in April it simply stated that the test done by the optician wasn't the right one - but we could still send in a 2nd Visual Field Esteman test if we wanted to. We went back to Boots - got the right test done - and sent it off to the DVLA. They got it in May and finally wrote back to us in June enclosing an application form for a new driving licence - also stating that as my husbands original photo licence was nearly 10 years old we'd have to submit new photos too. We returned application form and photos the day after we got them from DVLA.

Then we waited, and waited and waited..................

Finally we rang them up to see what the hold up was - apparently they were waiting for us to resubmit a new medical disclosure form - but they hadn't asked for it and we had no way of realising that they needed one as we'd submitted one back in January with original application. Guy told us to go to the internet and download the form and then send it into them asap. We did it the same day and sent it special delivery. No changes in medication or treatment for the past 7 or 8 years so didn't think anymore of it. Again we waited, and waited and waited. Finally rang them again and they then told us that they were now writing to the hospital consultant to confirm the medical form we'd done - even though the consultant had signed for us in January too!! They sent the form to the hospital - where it stayed for 2 weeks with nothing happening on it. :evil: Eventually I managed to speak to the consultant (probably because the nurses were sick of me ringing all the time ). She said she'd have to see hubby again before signing off the form - so we went to the hospital at 4pm to get form signed. She saw him for 4 or 5 mins - and then gave us the forms back signed. To speed it up a bit we faxed the forms to the DVLA and then rang to confirm safe receipt. Only to be told that faxes are not looked at for 3 days after delivery as they are busy!! After pleading with them to at least check safe receipt they confirmed they had the forms now - and all we could do was wait for the medical panel to review them.

Thank God they finally phoned us to say the licence has been approved for 12 months - and should be with us on Thursday this week.

To say we're relieved is a massive understatement. I've been driving hubby to work and getting to my own job 2 hours late - and then leaving my job 1 hour early to go collect him - luckily my employers agreed to me working like this until September so that I'd have the chance for hubby to keep his job until we had a definate, final answer. If no licence then he would have tried to find alternative job somewhere he could get by public transport - but as he's been made redundant twice in the last 12 years he didn't really want to move from his current job.

Anyway - now I'm rambling - sorry!!

Just wanted to say that if this ever happens to anyone on here - fight and argue and try and try again. The DVLA haven't made it easy - each time we send them something it always took on average 5 weeks for a response - then we'd respond and have to wait 5 weeks again for next response and so on and so on!!

Thanks for all the support you've given - it really has been appreciated.

 

[djjenko]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Hi,
It looks like there are many others in the same boat with the revoking of licences, just like i myself i have had diabetes type 1 for 35 years i am now 39 on pump treatment since Oct 2009 but i passed my test back in 1995 but lost my driving licence back in 2000 due to the usual issues, had laser treatment to left eye but had to have my right eye removed due to very painful glucomia, my choosing but i was never given the choice about laser treatment just the consultant said i had to have laser to save the remaining sight in my left eye, i was never told that laser distroys the field and you may lose your entitlement to hold a driving licence, well i had another field test at the hospital on 18th June 2010 have all the forms consent forms the field chart and the driving licence application D1 Form but i am afraid to send it back to dvla as my doc said the field test is no better than the one i had done in 2003.
Looking at the chart i saw 86/120 not seen 34/120 easterman efficiency score 71 fixation target central fixation losses 0/0 false pos errors 1/12 false neg errors 3/12stimulus intensity 10 08most of its all above my head really but remember this is one eye only left, blind in right.I do have really good sight in left no glucomia, but my condition started with having retonopothy back in 2000.I lost my self employment and have become bankrupt now.
I think we should start a group or campaign about these issues all us diabetic, it feels like we are not part of society, we have the same rights but people keep saying we can,t do this and we can,t do that well i say Boll..ks to them we have rights too.
Any views contact via the pm system.

Regards and best wishes and good luck to everyone dealing with this driving issues.

 

[Angeldust]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

I'm so sorry to hear your guys experiences.
I only have a provisional and haven't been in touch with the dvla as I haven't tried to get my license yet.
Now I'm really worried.
I've had laser surgery 9 times for retinopathy. I can read maybe 2 lines max on the board. Bright lights also blind me, I have myopia also but can see almost perfect with prescription lenses. Does anybody know if this will affect me. Do you have to do the tests without glasses? If so I'm screwed. But it's not fair because I have no vision problems with the glasses.

Anyway I wish all you guys the best of luck.

Linda

 

[cugila]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

I'm so sorry to hear your guys experiences.
I only have a provisional and haven't been in touch with the dvla as I haven't tried to get my license yet.
Now I'm really worried.
I've had laser surgery 9 times for retinopathy. I can read maybe 2 lines max on the board. Bright lights also blind me, I have myopia also but can see almost perfect with prescription lenses. Does anybody know if this will affect me. Do you have to do the tests without glasses? If so I'm screwed. But it's not fair because I have no vision problems with the glasses.

Anyway I wish all you guys the best of luck.

Linda

Linda.
You do have a licence........it is a Provisional licence ! You must get in touch with the DVLA Medical section about this. You would have had to fill in a declaration on your application for your Provisional licence ??? Were your answers correct ? You need to sort this out as a matter of urgency.

Ken

 

[Angeldust]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Hi Ken
when I applied it was before I was diagnosed.
I lost the papers and haven't been driving. I had my provisional put points on it for stupidity also before I was diagnosed. It put me off driving. Can I just apply for a new one? Am I in trouble?
s***

 

[cugila]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Hi Ken
when I applied it was before I was diagnosed.
I lost the papers and haven't been driving. I had my provisional put points on it for stupidity also before I was diagnosed. It put me off driving. Can I just apply for a new one? Am I in trouble?
s***

No.....you're not in trouble....Yet ! Just make sure that you contact the DVLA Medical section and that they know about your eyesight problems etc. They will probably send you a Medical Declaration form to fill in. Just answer all the questions truthfully and hopefully you may not have a problem.

Best to get it sorted asap.

Ken

 

[djjenko]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

This seems to be a real problem for alot of people getting there licences revoked with a drop of a hat, we work so hard to get it in the first place, i understand regarding safety to ones self and other road users but surely if a person has 1 remaining good sight then this should be tested in a dufferant way, i agree with an earlier comment that when you drive you DO NOT fixation on one spot on the horrizone so why do you have to on a field yest.
DVLA you need to re look at ways of testing eyes with a proper eye test machine instead of silly little small lights to test the field.Like many others i can read number plates at 20 or 20.5 metres and can read road signs with a distance of 2 car spaces, i drove 5 years with no accidents when i drove with one eye.
I understand if you do not have your eye consultants support then you may as well give up.I lost my job, my financial security my freedom, cost me over £1000 to learn to drive, i have a motability car but i have someone else to drive but i am a very independant person and hate relying on others, my wife doesn,t drive.
I became really depreased, i also are in stage 5 renal failure awaiting to go on dialysis so that will hamper my licence as well, i am on the transplant list once i start dialysis so i am going to ask for a pancrease transplant at the same time.
Diabetes has a lot to answer for i have most long term diabetes complications since having a bad time with my diabetes over the years but since being treated with insulin pump my diabetes has sorted out Hb1C down to 7.4 blood sugars ranging from 6 - 9 mmols each test. I guess i am fighting a losing battle with dvla.
I wish there was a group or campaigne or petition for all us diabetics regarding the problems we face having a medical condition.
Regards
Shaun

 

[JohnoHynes]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

I have been looking frequently on the DVLA web site to see if there are any changes in the way we diabetics are treated when it comes to vision and driving. I noticed the visual diorders team were meeting on 15th April and on the agenda was the question of people with stabilised retinopathy. The draft minutes for this meeting were finally published this month!

Although nothing has yet changed it would seem the DVLA have started a pilot study for this, here's an extract from those minutes:

8.2 Panel was informed that a DVLA 'pilot study' is now commencing whereby those with a stable but debarring binocular visual field defect following laser treatment to both eyes for proliferative diabetic retinopathy may be considered under 'exceptional case' criteria. Panel considered that video telemetry would be helpful during the on-road driving assessments carried out in these cases. Panel wished to be kept informed about the progress of the study. It was also suggested that the driving assessors involved in the study might be invited to present the findings to Panel.

If you want to read the full minutes you can find them here, they are on a downloadable PDF file.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/medi ... gs/minutes

This could mean there's a glimmer of hope for us.

I would also be willing to be part of this study, but how you go about doing that, I have yet to find out. If anyone else knows anything perhaps they could share it here.

John

 

[stevenrenshaw]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Hi everyone
new to this forum ,find a lot of comments ALL seem to have the same kind of views
what is it about the DVLA and diabetis .They think because you have diabetis ,in there stigma ,
you can't see anymore .Well i think it is about time they were proved wrong ,just because many of us have had laser treatment on our eyes (to save our sight ) and just because we sometimes miss a
few spots on that silly eastman visual field test (which is not realistic conditions ) i fully agree if you genuinly cannot see then you should not be driveing but like myself i only miss a few spots on the edges ,so that should not be a fail .Afterall if we had perfect eyesightt we wouldn't need for them to get involved in the first place . If they want to conduct these tests then they should do these fairly and realisticly afterall they manage to comeup with this eastman machine ,so i think all diabetics should write a letter to their MP and demand a change at parliment ,because all us Diabetics are discriminated against we want the dvla to conduct a realistic test to what we can acctully see , not what a machine says . AFTERALL THEY CAME UP WITH THAT TEST ,SO LET THEM THINK AGAIN .

 

[sugarless sue]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Welcome to the Forum,

The Esterman Field test is not just for Diabetics. I have had the Esterman Test for years before I became diabetic and I do not drive ! It is for ANYONE with defective eye-sight .

What is a visual field test used for?

Visual field testing is most frequently used to detect any signs of glaucoma damage to the optic nerve. In addition, visual field tests are useful for detection of central or peripheral retinal disease, eyelid conditions such as ptosis or drooping, optic nerve disease, and diseases affecting the visual pathways within the brain. The visual pathways carry information from the eye to the visual or occipital cortex in the brain, where this information is processed into vision.

Source: http://www.medicinenet.com/visual_field ... rticle.htm

 

[dorsetlad]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

That's right Sue. I've been having annual field tests since 1993, as I have Optical Hypertension, and have to use eye drops daily to prevent glaucoma. I was not diagnosed as T2 until June this year.

Brian

 

[HLW]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

I think the DVLA are too lenient re: letting people drive who can't. They should be far more strict. I've never had a visual field test (I think the only test of eyesight for my driving test was can you read a number plate!), how do they know I've not got some kind of congenital eye deformity?

I am short sighted, went for an eye test yesterday, I am legal to drive without glasses (just!), but I know that would not be safe, and it's worrying to think that there could be people with vision as bad as mine driving without glasses.

 

[stevenrenshaw]

Re: DVLA revoked driving licence - any advice?

Today i sent over a letter to my mp concerning the issues many of us have with the dvla annd driveing here is a copy of the letter i sent i would avise as many of us diabetics to join forces that way something hopefully will be acomplished ( i have been a diabetic now for 45 years ,what i would like to know is what are yourgoverment going to do concerning the issues of all diabeticpeople who are unfairly treated by the dvla and the way that visual field tests are conducted .These test are based on none realistic Driveing conditions .the dvla revoke many licences of many diabetics who can see reasonbly well this causeing a lot of hardship to many people but because they are a goverment body they allowed to get away with it is this a issue that can be voted for a change in parliment for a change the way these tests are conducted ) if we all right a letter to our mp's then maybe we can make a diffrence !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!