Type 2 Change in meal times? LCHF/STRESSES

[Lauriem1967]

Hi, my name is Laurie.

I have recently been diagnosed with T3, December 15th,17.

My BG was 15 upon diagnosis. The very next day when I was at home it was 11 in the morning before breakfast. Two hours after breakfast it was 8.2.

For the first three weeks Just about every single finger prick test was within range.

I am not on any meds, or insulin. I’ve been controlling it with food.

The first three weeks, I was just following a standard diet with carbs. In fact I was eating about 15 to 20 carbs per meal, and about 15 for snack two times a day. I was testing often, about eight times a day, and about every three to four days I get one BG value that was a little high in the morning, 7.3 fasting.

I figured out that I need to wait six hours between meals, and three hours after each meal for my snack. My late night snack I always ate around midnight. I could sleep six hours and my blood sugars would be fine.

For the last week I’ve been doing LCHF. I’ve started getting higher values before meals, particularly before breakfast fasting, 7.3, and before lunch 7.2.

Checking my blood sugar two hours after a meal, everything is perfect.

So my question is why would my values start to climb in the morning and before lunch again? Does this sometimes happens to everybody who has diabetes or is it something I need to work more figure out?

I thought that maybe because I was doing LCHF maybe I could have less space between meals and eat every five hours. Last night I had my snack at midnight, checked my blood sugar at 5 AM, 7.3 again, should I wait longer to test? Or test earlier?

I decided to go back to bed, no midmorning snack, after four hours check my blood sugar before lunch, 7.2 again.It’s only been two days in a row and there are other factors.

One day I had dental work done, A large filling replacement very close to the nerve, after that then I went to my daughters house two days in a row to help out and babysit , where there are four little children who I absolutely adore and love with all of my being, but that can really stress me out if I’m there too long, lol.

The next day I had 25 injections into my legs to treat varicose vein’s, and I am always very nervous of the treatment, because there are so many injections.

When I got home to relax and take it easy, my daughter with the four kids came over, spent the day, spent the night over, so little bit more stress too.

Of course, being new to all of this, I don’t know if I’m just testing too early, or if I’m testing too late? Also I didn’t do any excercise those two days, which for me is 25 mins if treadmill.

Should I be getting up two hours after my midnight snack and testing again?

I saw someone on here say that if you’re doing LCHF it might be wise to test three hours after a meal, because the added fat stays in your system longer?

Does anyone have any advice on this, from your experience when transitioning from carbs, to LCHF diet?

I don’t mind testing often, except I have not seen the diabetic clinic nurse yet, and I’d like to have this all sorted out before I see her. She told me only to test two times a day, which I think is ridiculous because I will not be able to figure anything out that way.

If I test once in the morning and once at night, and they both end up being high, but all during the day my blood sugar is fine, we would not know that. That’s when they’ll be trying to tell me to take the Metformin.

I’m wondering that if once my grandchildren go home, and I have no medical appointments, my stress will be lower and I’ll be able to better manage my blood sugars.

Or, is it possible that the LCHF is making my blood sugar high?

Having diabetes and trying to figure everything out is mind-boggling. Those first three weeks, man, I was sure I had it down perfectly! LOL. I was thinking “This is do-able for me”, then a whole new situation pops up to change up everything I’ve been doing, and this is just the beginning. Kudos to every single one if you out there who is dealing with this!

I’m not depressed, and I’m not discouraged at all. I am in very good spirits and happy, optimistic. I am very committed to getting this figured out with no medication and no insulin, if I can.

This forum has been really helpful, and I can see that there are so many different faces of diabetes and so many different situations, everyone here is so friendly and helped me get through every single day so far.

I honestly don’t know how people do it, when they have jobs. I don’t work anymore. I find the most annoying thing is not getting eight hours sleep, and eating so much food. The forum had opened up my eyes to so much.

Thank you for any help, or advice anyone can offer.

 

[Pinkorchid]

Hi welcome. You say you are doing LCHF but I just wonder do you feel that you really need to snack between meals and especially so late at night. Have you just tried having three meals a day..some here only have two meals a day me included I rarely eat lunch... and if you are peckish a small snack in the evening but not to late.

 

[Rachox]

Hi Lauriem. Sounds like you’ve had a stressful time recently and stress can affect blood sugars. I don’t work now, paid work anyway, but two days a week I volunteer at Cancer Research UK. I can guarantee my after breakfast reading will be higher than normal those two days. I don’t find it stressful, on the contrary, but just having to get up and get there at a certain time is enough to nudge my numbers up a little. Illness and medical stuff raises levels too. Just before Xmas I woke one morning with a high temperature and a chest infection, then 8 days later I had an op on my foot and steroid injection. You can clearly see the two spikes on my graph! I hope as things settle down for you your levels will drop again. In my experience LCHF shouldn’t cause high blood sugars.

 

[Resurgam]

Hello Laurie. I hope you can soon sort out your diet - I know I am biased, but it has really worked for me and I am boringly normal in all things other than eating just around 50gm of carbs a day, though I don't need to be strict and can do 60 easily - once in a while even more, but it means that I put on weight these days - I am 66 years old, so it is perhaps to be expected. In my middle years, before diagnosis, I could eat 80 gm of carbs and maintain with exercise, but that was then.
I eat twice a day as that seems to work for me. I don't snack as I want to give my body a rest from coping with recent foods, so I am running off my own reserves rather than the last thing I ate.
LCHF usually causes BG to drop like a stone, and weight too. When I first tried Atkins rather than my own version off low fat, after a diet from the doctor which caused weight gain and anguish as he was sure I was not doing it right - in the first three days I lost 7lb and had to eat more. I remember the brain fog clearing away and a fresh breeze feeling in my head. I am pretty sure that I have had an inability to cope with carbs all my adult life which grew worse each time I was pushed into 'healthy eating'.

 

[Bluetit1802]

The less time there is between eating (meals and snacks) the less time your body has to recover from the previous lot of food. It is much wiser to leave as long a gap as you can between meals, and avoid snacking completely. Logically, when you eat, your levels go up and take a while to return to base. If you eat again before you have returned to base, your post meal levels will be even higher. The higher you start, the higher you finish and the higher you finish, the longer it takes to return to base.

Personally, I only eat in a 6 or 7 hour window, during which time I have 2 good meals. The rest of the time I am fasting apart from a coffee with double cream as soon as I get up. I then don't eat again until about 1.15pm (lunch) and again about 7.15pm (tea) then nothing but water until my coffee and cream when I get up next morning. This is known as intermittent fasting. There are other ways to do intermittent fasting, but I have never tried those. I find it remarkably easy and am never hungry.

The worst time to eat is late evening, so I guess your midnight snack needs to go.

Stress will most definitely have raised your levels. It is HIGHLY unlikely due to eating low carb/higher fat. Generally speaking, it is only carbs that raise levels. Fats will not do this no matter how much you eat. Protein can have an effect, but nothing significant and not in everybody. I suggest your problem is a mixture of stress and snacking.

You say previously all your levels were within range. What is your range? Sometimes it is a good plan to test at the 90 minute mark, then the 2 hour mark and again half an hour after that, and keep going until you are back to where you started, but this is only when testing out certain foods. If you are just looking for trends and how you are doing in general, the before and the 2 hour mark is all you need, and the rise needs to be under a 2mmol/l preferably less.

 

[lindijanice]

Hey Lauriem, Welcome to the Forum! I, like you, will often get a higher reading in the morning and I think it is due to the liver dumping glucose into my system - I'm not in keto right now while on holidays for a month in Florida - don't feel jealous as we have had very chilly weather, but no snow to shovel, thankfully!! Anyway, in time you should see that early a.m. number drop - someone on the Forum suggested that often is the last number to adjust to LCHF way of eating. Hopefully someone will tag Daisy1 - I'm not sure how to do that - and she will give you the great welcome to the Forum package that is packed with great and useful info. Blessings/L

 

[Lauriem1967]

Bluetit1802

I’ve cut out my mid morning and afternoon snacks. Added more fat and feel like I don’t need the snacks.

I also eat every 6 hours now, but test BG 10 mins earlier.

My levels have returned to normal for me, which is about 6.3-6.6 before and after meals.

Are used to test at two hours after a meal, but now I’m testing three hours after a meal there is a lot of fat.

I’m guessing because I had medical and dental treatments that caused me stress, I took Tylenol too, that the cause of the higher BG was exactly what you and others have mentioned.

Thanks everyone for helping me so quickly. It’s comforting and reassuring that I’m not so alone. ️

 

[Lauriem1967]

Hey Lauriem, Welcome to the Forum! I, like you, will often get a higher reading in the morning and I think it is due to the liver dumping glucose into my system - I'm not in keto right now while on holidays for a month in Florida - don't feel jealous as we have had very chilly weather, but no snow to shovel, thankfully!! Anyway, in time you should see that early a.m. number drop - someone on the Forum suggested that often is the last number to adjust to LCHF way of eating. Hopefully someone will tag Daisy1 - I'm not sure how to do that - and she will give you the great welcome to the Forum package that is packed with great and useful info. Blessings/L

Thank you so much, my levels have returned to the lower values that I’ve had recently. This morning and yesterday I was between 6.3 and yesterday 6.1, Before breakfast.

I’ll just have to know that stress will probably raise my values.

Enjoy Florida, we have the same very cold weather here in Canada. It’ll be fantastic to see the sun!

I will also be going to Florida , Orlando actually, Universal Studios, leaving on the 25th.

It’ll be the first time I’m travelling so I’m a bit worried about how I’m gonna deal with my food. But I’m confident I’ll manage it. I’m going to be asking the question in there for him to see if people have travel tips for me.

Considering I’m going to an amusement park, I’m not sure how I will deal with food inside the parks.

Well, you have a great trip, enjoy the heck out of it!

 

[Lauriem1967]

View attachment 24923
I volunteer at Cancer Research UK. I can guarantee my after breakfast reading will be higher than normal those two days. I don’t find it stressful, on the contrary, but just having to get up and get there at a certain time is enough to nudge my numbers up a little. Illness and medical stuff raises levels too. Just before Xmas I woke one morning with a high temperature and a chest infection, then 8 days later I had an op on my foot and steroid injection. You can clearly see the two spikes on my graph! I hope as things settle down for you your levels will drop again. In my experience LCHF shouldn’t cause high blood sugars.

Thank you Rachox,
Bless you for your volunteering! You’re an angel to do many!

I didn’t realize that stress and medical treatments or illnesses would spike my levels. They have since come back down.

Can I ask what kind of app you’re using to track on a graph like that? I really would like to see my levels all together on a graph. That’s pretty brilliant.

I hope your chest infection is cleared up and that your foot is doing much better now. Take care of yourself and thank you very much for your helpful reply.

 

[Lauriem1967]

Hi welcome. You say you are doing LCHF but I just wonder do you feel that you really need to snack between meals and especially so late at night. Have you just tried having three meals a day..some here only have two meals a day me included I rarely eat lunch... and if you are peckish a small snack in the evening but not to late.

Hi Pinkorchid, I added more fat and now am skipping snacks, thank you for your reply. It led me to look up info on LCHF so I could fine tune my food a little.

Eating the standard diabetic, carb loaded diet, I was actually shaky and feeling like I was about to have anxiety or panic attack for every meal. I felt overly hungry just before meal times too.

But since starting the LCHF, I haven’t felt any of that, and not strong hunger either before meals. I feel happier all in all.

Don’t get me wrong I still hate getting up at 5:50 to test my blood sugar and to make a breakfast, because I can’t make it through the night without having high BG levels in the morning.

I have a snack around midnight, and at 5:50 AM my blood sugar is good, sometimes 6.2, 6.6, in that range. A few times it’s even been in the 5.2 area. That makes me pretty happy. If I don’t have a snack at midnight, my fasting values will be in the upper 7’s.

Thank you again for your reply, I needed it.

 

[Lauriem1967]

Hello Laurie. I hope you can soon sort out your diet - I know I am biased, but it has really worked for me and I am boringly normal in all things other than eating just around 50gm of carbs a day, though I don't need to be strict and can do 60 easily - once in a while even more, but it means that I put on weight these days - I am 66 years old, so it is perhaps to be expected. In my middle years, before diagnosis, I could eat 80 gm of carbs and maintain with exercise, but that was then.
I eat twice a day as that seems to work for me. I don't snack as I want to give my body a rest from coping with recent foods, so I am running off my own reserves rather than the last thing I ate.
LCHF usually causes BG to drop like a stone, and weight too. When I first tried Atkins rather than my own version off low fat, after a diet from the doctor which caused weight gain and anguish as he was sure I was not doing it right - in the first three days I lost 7lb and had to eat more. I remember the brain fog clearing away and a fresh breeze feeling in my head. I am pretty sure that I have had an inability to cope with carbs all my adult life which grew worse each time I was pushed into 'healthy eating'.

Thank you,
I tried Atkins years ago and I did lose weight. But, I wasn’t diabetic then. I think I lost about 25 pounds. Are used to do fasting to, water fasting and intermittent fasting.

For the last six months I’ve been doing intermittent fasting 16/8. But the last few months, I’ve been feeling shaky and having huge panic attacks.

I never related these feelings to the idea that I had a blood sugar problem. So I won’t be doing any fasting just yet, when I test my blood sugars overnight if I’m not having a snack at midnight and testing six hours later, it’s usually high. It took me three weeks to figure that one out.

I’ve cut out my two daily snacks, and saw on YouTube that some people are using something called, a “fat bomb”, to keep them fuller longer between meals. This technique worked for me perfectly. Not to mention they’re super delicious!

Thanks again for your advice,

 

[Rachox]

Thank you Rachox,
Bless you for your volunteering! You’re an angel to do many!

I didn’t realize that stress and medical treatments or illnesses would spike my levels. They have since come back down.

Can I ask what kind of app you’re using to track on a graph like that? I really would like to see my levels all together on a graph. That’s pretty brilliant.

I hope your chest infection is cleared up and that your foot is doing much better now. Take care of yourself and thank you very much for your helpful reply.

Hi Lauriem
Thank you for your kind words, I love my voluntary work!
The app in my picture showing the graph is called Glucose Companion. It’s brilliant for number crunching which I love. The graph is one of several views you can pick. I started with the free version which if I remember rightly has everything the pro (£3.99) version has but the adverts get increasingly intrusive. You can easily transfer your info from the free version to the pro version if you upgrade, so give the free one a try first. You can also sync your info between devices using iCloud, Dropbox or your home WiFi network. I have the info on both my iPhone and iPad.
My chest infection has gone, just a tickle cough left and my foot is improving each day. Still on crutches for three more weeks then if my FU appt is satisfactory I will be walking normally again.
Hope that info about the app helps

 

[Pinkorchid]

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Don’t get me wrong I still hate getting up at 5:50 to test my blood sugar and to make a breakfast, because I can’t make it through the night without having high BG levels in the morning.

I have a snack around midnight, and at 5:50 AM my blood sugar is good, sometimes 6.2, 6.6, in that range. A few times it’s even been in the 5.2 area. That makes me pretty happy. If I don’t have a snack at midnight, my fasting values will be in the upper 7’s.

That's good that you are finding LCHF helpful but I still do not really understand why you have to get up at 5.50 to have breakfast. What are your sugar levels in the morning if you leave it until later. Many people here have what is called the dawn phenomenon where their sugar levels are higher when they get up than the rest of the day and nothing they do really changes that...mine for instance are always in the 6/7s when I get up and a late night snack does not change that. It is because some glucose is dumped in our liver to keep us going during the sleeping hours. I have breakfast about 8.30 am often do not have lunch and I do not usually eat anything after my main meal at 5.30pm I only have a small appetite

 

[Dr Snoddy]

I agree with Pinkorchid. Getting up in the early morning to test is in itself a form of stress as you are stopping yourself from having a restful night's sleep. The immune system functions fully while we sleep and mitigates against inflammation. I would take sleep over testing any day!

 

[lindijanice]

Enjoy your trip, Laurie! I don't look forward to returning to Canada I have to admit But will be great to see the granddaughters again! Try not to worry too much about the food while in Florida - I find there are so many more options to stay on plan than back home. And don't be afraid to speak up when ordering - I find the servers very accommodating when I order a burger without the bun (don't eat gluten) or a Reuben sandwich without the bread, etc. or no potato and extra veg instead....so I think you will find things ok....In the Parks might be tough with all the yummy temptations though!! Be strong Blessings/L Safe travels!

 

[Lauriem1967]

[

That's good that you are finding LCHF helpful but I still do not really understand why you have to get up at 5.50 to have breakfast. What are your sugar levels in the morning if you leave it until later. Many people here have what is called the dawn phenomenon where their sugar levels are higher when they get up than the rest of the day and nothing they do really changes that...mine for instance are always in the 6/7s when I get up and a late night snack does not change that. It is because some glucose is dumped in our liver to keep us going during the sleeping hours. I have breakfast about 8.30 am often do not have lunch and I do not usually eat anything after my main meal at 5.30pm I only have a small appetite

Hi Pinkorchid,
Yes, my values tend to be higher in the morning before eating, but most times if I eat a snack late at night ( say midnight), then get up at 5:30am, I can catch it before it rises too much. Usually in the 6-7 range.

Some mornings though, it’ll go up into the 7.2, to the 7.6 territory.

I’ve read a little bit about this dawn phenomenon, and I figure I must be one of the people that have that issue. Because my value seem to be fine during the day.

I haven’t seen the nurse at the diabetic clinic yet, and I’m newly diagnosed. I tend to be stressing on making sure that my blood sugars are good all the time. At first I was testing Every two hours, to see how long I could go without eating. For me, I can go six hours approximately.

So for all the people that have the dawn phenomenon, do they just let their blood sugar be high and not really pay too much attention to that in the am?

I’m thinking that my blood sugar needs to be within limits at every moment, am I being too extreme? It’s been about 6 weeks since the diagnosis and I’m feeling like I’ve been engulfed by the idea that my numbers have to be perfect at all times.

Like last night, it was my first time going out to a restaurant since being diagnosed. I held off because I was fearful. Everything actually went well and I had enough food choices.

I even went to the movies and just brought a small handful of pumpkin seeds and two squares of 85% chocolate. I checked my blood sugar 2 hrs after, and it was 7. So I was really pleased that everything went well.

Last night at midnight I have small snack, and usually after adding the small snack late at night my morning Bloodsugars are within the limits. But, this morning I get a 7.2 before breakfast.

Then I start overthinking it, “Do I need to get up earlier, was my snack not big enough, or, did I need to wait another 20 minutes and my blood sugar would come into normal range? “

My big worry is that when I see the nurse at the clinic she will tell me I need to take metformin, and I’m really trying to stay off medication. Also, the fact that I’m new at this doesn’t help, maybe I need to relax a little bit.

Thanks for your reply, I’m definitely going to check out the app.

 

[Lauriem1967]

I agree with Pinkorchid. Getting up in the early morning to test is in itself a form of stress as you are stopping yourself from having a restful night's sleep. The immune system functions fully while we sleep and mitigates against inflammation. I would take sleep over testing any day!

Thank you for commenting on this, so are you saying that people usually just let their morning value be high, as long as they have the rest of the day under control?

Since I’m new at this I don’t know what to do. My mind just keeps racing back to the fact that I’m going to ruin my arteries, my heart, my eyes, so I’m stressing out about getting good values at all times.

Should I just not be too bothered about the morning BG and actually try to get eight hours of sleep in a row? That would be really amazing for me because I do feel like it’s a big stressor.

 

[Lauriem1967]

Enjoy your trip, Laurie! I don't look forward to returning to Canada I have to admit But will be great to see the granddaughters again! Try not to worry too much about the food while in Florida - I find there are so many more options to stay on plan than back home. And don't be afraid to speak up when ordering - I find the servers very accommodating when I order a burger without the bun (don't eat gluten) or a Reuben sandwich without the bread, etc. or no potato and extra veg instead....so I think you will find things ok....In the Parks might be tough with all the yummy temptations though!! Be strong Blessings/L Safe travels!

Thank you for the encouragement and the great travel tips. I needed that! Have a good trip home, the snow is melting here in Montreal! I’m sure it’ll be back in no time though, lol.

I love being a grama too, my grandchildren are also my heart ️.

 

[Rachox]

I had dawn phenomenon in the early days and still do to a certain extent. Things I do to prevent it are, I have a snack of plain nuts before I go to sleep, I try to wake naturally rather than with an alarm, I’m retired so I have that luxury. I test as soon as I wake up and then go straight downstairs for breakfast. I have brekkie in my PJs, leaving showering and dressing til after I’ve eaten. My blood sugars keep creeping up after I’ve woken if I don’t eat, I tested this only recently when I had to be nil by mouth for an operation. My sugar on waking that day was 5.6, then two hours later at the hospital it was 6.8!

 

[Pinkorchid]

But, this morning I get a 7.2 before breakfast.

Nothing wrong with that many people have that kind of level first thing. I am always between 6/7s when I get up and even if I got up and tested at 5am or had a midnight snack it would not make any difference

Should I just not be too bothered about the morning BG and actually try to get eight hours of sleep in a row? That would be really amazing for me because I do feel like it’s a big stressor.

That would be good advice to do that