Baffled

[JeanCL]

Isn't the liver a longer-term glucose storer, hence glucose dump when we get too low? x

 

[Jilty]

I was first diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes I had a hbc1 level of 130 now I have it down to 64 but seem to have stalled. I was slender to begin with and was advised to put in weight becsuse i was so slender. Any suggestions on how I can kick start my journey again. Jill

 

[OrsonKartt]

I was first diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes I had a hbc1 level of 130 now I have it down to 64 but seem to have stalled. I was slender to begin with and was advised to put in weight becsuse i was so slender. Any suggestions on how I can kick start my journey again. Jill

Hi jilty. ... I've just read your post ... I don't know if this helps but I'm 6ft 3 and weigh 72 kg. technically I'm told that is underweight but if I add just a kilo my sugar levels rise. From my understanding we all have our own individual internal fat threshold above which we get problems. It really is tricky as I was advised not to diet but ignored the nhs and got my sugar levels down and now feel so much better. So how do you feel ?

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi jilty. ... I've just read your post ... I don't know if this helps but I'm 6ft 3 and weigh 72 kg. technically I'm told that is underweight but if I add just a kilo my sugar levels rise. From my understanding we all have our own individual internal fat threshold above which we get problems. It really is tricky as I was advised not to diet but ignored the nhs and got my sugar levels down and now feel so much better. So how do you feel ?

Orson Kartt - I don't know how long you tried to maintain your increased weight? Some folks do find their bodies object a bit when changes are afoot, but settle fairly quickly. Did your bloods remain elevated?

 

[DCUKMod]

I was first diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes I had a hbc1 level of 130 now I have it down to 64 but seem to have stalled. I was slender to begin with and was advised to put in weight becsuse i was so slender. Any suggestions on how I can kick start my journey again. Jill

Jilty - I think you'd get more responses if your post was a thread of it's own.

If you would like a thread of your own, I (or any of the mods) can move your post and the relevant responses to it. Just tag me (or any Mod) by typing the @ symbol immediately before our user name. So, that would be like @DCUKMod . We then get notification alerting us.

 

[OrsonKartt]

Orson Kartt - I don't know how long you tried to maintain your increased weight? Some folks do find their bodies object a bit when changes are afoot, but settle fairly quickly. Did your bloods remain elevated?

I don't have any issue with being the weight I am My blood sugars are under control, my blood pressure is fine I am fit and feel fine.

 

[Zilsniggy]

I don’t usually have breakfast in the morning.

Basically you are forcing your body to fast. In starvation mode, your liver will release glycogen(this is what is happening during the dawn phenomenon). It may be that you are one of the diabetics who simply cannot fast for that reason. Try having breakfast( a proper b/fast of solids, not just BPC). It is possible that your body is not recognising the BPC as a meal.because it's in liquid form.

 

[Speedbird]

Thanks Zilsniggy. I do have a little butter in the mornings now. You may be on the right path there. I did notice the other day that my BS actually came down after eggs and bacon. I don’t often eat in the mornings and usually break my fast about midday but I will try this. X

 

[Speedbird]

Now here’s the thing........I have been wearing my Libre for a week now and I have noticed that my BS starts creeping up from about 11pm and slowly increases all through the night. So it makes no difference if I have a small amount of cheese or a spoonful of butter before bed or as soon as I wake up. Hmmm. But during the day it will start to come down from about midday. Maybe a full fried breakfast at 0700 as Zilsniggy suggested.
Any thoughts? X

 

[Speedbird]

And here we go again.

Tuesday. No breakfast, well a cup of coffee with unsweetened soya ( nil carbs)
I had cheese omelette and a small side salad with coffe and cream about 1pm.
Evening meal at 6pm was smoked salmon, a small green salad and a small portion of Mediterranean roast veg. Followed by a handful of walnuts and a decaf coffee with cream. My BS was 8.6! One hour after Then 8.0 on going to bed at 9pm
Woke up to a 10! I had my Libre sensor on and there were no dips just a steady rise throughout the night.

Yesterday the usual cup of coffee in the morning, this time with cream, then bacon eggs mushrooms and half a sausage about midday and another cup of coffee. Evening meal again at 6pm. 3 egg cheese omelette with small green salad. A chicory coffee. My BS was better at 6.6 an hour after then 7.2 at 9pm.
Woke up to 10.4. Again a steady rise throughout my sleep according to the Libre.

This has been going on for a few weeks now and I am at a loss. I do excersice, low carb and I do IF almost constantly. A few EF thrown in too. My visercal fat has been measured at 6 so I guess that is pretty good.

Does anyone else have this conundrum? What should I do?

 

[Chook]

I get DP in the mornings and sometimes a bit of liver dump before or occasionally after dinner, depending on what I've eaten and when. It only started happening to a noticeable level after I started a low carb way of eating a few years ago.

The morning DP starts with what feels like a mini hot flush somewhere between 5 and 7 am which I usually sleep through. If I don't eat breakfast very soon after waking it will carry on rising until lunchtime and then only starts to come down very slowly leaving my BG high at dinner time and if I then eat any carbs with dinner my BG will still be high at bed time. However, if I eat a fatty protein breakfast it stops the DP from rising any further and my BGs are good for the rest of the day. What works for me is bacon and eggs, 100g Brie, Philadelphia and smoked salmon, kippers and scrambled eggs or a full English (without the carby bits). At the moment I'm finding the Brie easiest but it's nice to have a choice.


As for the afternoon DP (maybe should call it something else) that happens when I haven't eaten sufficiently at breakfast and/or lunch - again it starts with a bit of a hot flush and now know to eat ASAP.

I've tried all kinds of low carb ways of eating and nothing stops the DP if you are eating anything at all as the liver' s glucose store is replenished the next time you eat.

I recently fasted (water only) for five days and my BG liver dumps were at their normal times but got lower and lower. All the while I was getting the liver dumps I really didn't feel particularly hungry - it was only late on day 4 that my liver admitted defeat and didn't dump and that was when severe hunger kicked in.

 

[Speedbird]

Thanks Chook. Similar to your Liver dump. I recognise the mini hot flush and I am side by side with you on the rest of the day.

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that BG rose sharply if the glucose went too low whilst sleeping. As I don’t have that low blip when I sleep, why does it just keep on rising? My last meal is usually about 6 pm. Is the liver just doing it’s own thing and finding glucose in every nook and cranny just to keep me on my toes.

I thought coffee with cream at 7am would suffice but maybe a full English without the carbs would do it Not sure I could stomach that so early so I’m going for the Brie option. Sounds perfect, thank you.

I have fasted for 5 days before so I could do it again but I really am not up to it just yet.
How is your liver dumps now? Did the fasting have a long term effect?

 

[Chook]

I haven't got a Libre so I don't know what happens at night - sometimes my husband has to get up early for work and accidentally wakes me so I notice the flush then -mostly I don't wake up and just throw the duvet off (which wakes my husband up).
Coffee with double cream didn't work for me. Bulletproof coffee was a bit better but i really couldn't cope with the texture of it first thing in the morning. I think its the combination if fat and protein that does the trick. 100g Brie seems to be working at the moment without too much early morning mucking around.

Its certainly not a sharp rise for me. On the rare occasion I have to get up before my liver so helpfully releases the DP glucose my BG is about 5.0-5.5. At my normal getting up time 2-3 hours later it will have risen to between 7.0 and 8.5. If I don't have breakfast it just slowly keeps on going up for 3-5 hours to between 9.0 and 10.0 - then slowly goes back down unless I'm really active (which is very rare for me). Weirdly if I have less sleep than usual for any reason my BG in the morning will be lower than usual but pain or stress makes it go up.

No, the five day fast didn't have any long term affect on BGs or weight.

 

[mazza 2]

Thanks Chook. Similar to your Liver dump. I recognise the mini hot flush and I am side by side with you on the rest of the day.

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that BG rose sharply if the glucose went too low whilst sleeping. As I don’t have that low blip when I sleep, why does it just keep on rising? My last meal is usually about 6 pm. Is the liver just doing it’s own thing and finding glucose in every nook and cranny just to keep me on my toes.

I thought coffee with cream at 7am would suffice but maybe a full English without the carbs would do it Not sure I could stomach that so early so I’m going for the Brie option. Sounds perfect, thank you.

I have fasted for 5 days before so I could do it again but I really am not up to it just yet.
How is your liver dumps now? Did the fasting have a long term effect?

Frustrating isn't it!!! I find if I don't eat in the mornings my BG will continue to rise so I make sure I eat something. Have you tried some full fat greek yoghurt with cream. I seem to be ok with that. Of course, as you know stress can make BG rise and sometimes without realising it we are stressing about the fact they might be high before we test and then they are high. Maybe, (although most people might not think it a good idea,) don't test for one morning, eat a non-carb breakfast, forget about your BG level (not easy, I know) and do something you enjoy and see if that makes a difference. Someone on here suggested this to me as I was stressing about my levels and it actually made a difference. Anyhow, I hope you get better results soon, it's a work in progress and sometimes a frustrating one at that.

 

[Speedbird]

Frustrating isn't it!!! I find if I don't eat in the mornings my BG will continue to rise so I make sure I eat something. Have you tried some full fat greek yoghurt with cream. I seem to be ok with that. Of course, as you know stress can make BG rise and sometimes without realising it we are stressing about the fact they might be high before we test and then they are high. Maybe, (although most people might not think it a good idea,) don't test for one morning, eat a non-carb breakfast, forget about your BG level (not easy, I know) and do something you enjoy and see if that makes a difference. Someone on here suggested this to me as I was stressing about my levels and it actually made a difference. Anyhow, I hope you get better results soon, it's a work in progress and sometimes a frustrating one at that.

Hello mazza 2, I agree stress is an important factor and it’s true that the high FBG levels I am having do worry me. So your explanation makes sense. Thank you.
It’s that never ending search for normality or as near as **** it that I strive for. I guess I should ease off- thinking out loud here.
So much is said on this forum about intermittent fasting being helpful in lowering BS that I find I have to follow suit. But I may have to realise it is not for me.

 

[Speedbird]

I haven't got a Libre so I don't know what happens at night - sometimes my husband has to get up early for work and accidentally wakes me so I notice the flush then -mostly I don't wake up and just throw the duvet off (which wakes my husband up).
Coffee with double cream didn't work for me. Bulletproof coffee was a bit better but i really couldn't cope with the texture of it first thing in the morning. I think its the combination if fat and protein that does the trick. 100g Brie seems to be working at the moment without too much early morning mucking around.

Its certainly not a sharp rise for me. On the rare occasion I have to get up before my liver so helpfully releases the DP glucose my BG is about 5.0-5.5. At my normal getting up time 2-3 hours later it will have risen to between 7.0 and 8.5. If I don't have breakfast it just slowly keeps on going up for 3-5 hours to between 9.0 and 10.0 - then slowly goes back down unless I'm really active (which is very rare for me). Weirdly if I have less sleep than usual for any reason my BG in the morning will be lower than usual but pain or stress makes it go up.

No, the five day fast didn't have any long term affect on BGs or weight.

The rises in BG sound very similar to mine. The coffee and cream doesn’t seem to bring my FBG down so I’m giving the cheese a go tomorrow morning, before I take the dogs out. The walk usually helps a little. It will be interesting to see. Thanks for replying

 

[Speedbird]

And right on cue, BG now risen from 6.8 at 8pm to 8.0 at 9.15. All I had this evening was a chicory coffee with cream. Oh well

 

[mazza 2]

And right on cue, BG now risen from 6.8 at 8pm to 8.0 at 9.15. All I had this evening was a chicory coffee with cream. Oh well

Although it's gone to 8, it has only risen by 1.2, which is less than 2. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that you should try to keep a rise 2 or below after eating. So, 8 maybe a little high but you started at 6.8. If you had started at 6, you would have only gone to 7.2. So, I think because your FBG was a little high to start with, it will appear to be high once you've eaten. So, in my opinion you need to keep working on your FBG. I'm not sure how to advise you on this but I'm sure someone will. I don't know how to tag someone in to assist you, but hopefully someone will be along soon. Try not to worry.

 

[Starfish18]

Hi @Speedbird I was only diagnosed in Jan this year but by sounds of it we're going through the same thing. I can get liver dumps at any time of day. If I fast my liver just wants to help out and makes my blood levels higher so I have to eat too.
Having a good low carb cooked breakfast can help lower my morning levels but I sometimes still get a dump before my evening meal! Sometimes because of this my after meal reading can be Lower than my before meal reading so obviously I don't get an accurate reading it's so frustrating. Today after my lunch I was 6.4 but before dinner I'd shot up to 7.2 and I'd not eaten anything!

 

[Speedbird]

Thank you everybody.
This morning it was 8.9. So although high, It was a steady night from yesterday’s reading of 8 at bedtime.
I have taken Chooks advice and have eaten a plate of cheese for breakfast. I have to say it was quite lovely and different to be eating so early.
You have all been a great help. I appreciate it.
I will let you know how my cheese breakfast transpires. X