Vitamin C can reduce Bg levels ?

[Soundgen]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18160753

 

[Soundgen]

Another interesting link presumably of interest to Type 1s and Type 2s who have progressed to Insulin use

elements4health.com/researchers-stop-diabetes-damage-with-vitamin-c.html

 

[Soundgen]

OMG here's an opposite view ! But much older than the others .

http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/...n-c-supplement-increase-blood-glucose-levels/

I think I'll start taking vitamin c 1,000mg and see what happens

 

[Soundgen]

ASCORBIC ACID COMPETES WITH SUGAR IN THE IMMUNE SYSTEM

By Dr. James Howenstine, MD.
December 25, 2006

Nearly every animal converts sugar into ascorbic acid (Vitamin C). Human beings, primates and guinea pigs are the only organisms unable to do this. The enzyme L-gulonolactone oxidase that accomplishes this chemical reaction does not work in these beings. This forces these beings to obtain ascorbic acid from food or supplements. Research studies suggest that humans would produce about 2 to 4 grams of Vitamin C daily under normal conditions and about 15 grams daily[1] when under stress.

newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james52.htm

 

[Soundgen]

Put in an airy fairy sideing

 

[cugila]

Soundgen.

Airy Fairy....I don't think the previous posters in this area would think of their subjects in such a way. Just tidying up and moving posts to the correct areas. It is an ongoing process.

 

[Patch]

This needs more discussion...

Soundgen - my own research has led me to Vitamin C. Very interesting that Vitamin C and Insulin share the same mechanism for getting into cells.

RESULTS: A significant decrease in FBS, TG, LDL, HbA1c and serum insulin was seen in the group supplemented with 1000 mg vitamin C. The dose of 500 mg vitamin C, however, did not produce any significant change in any of the parameters studied.

INTERPRETATION & CONCLUSION: Our results indicate that daily consumption of 1000 mg supplementary vitamin C may be beneficial in decreasing blood glucose and lipids in patients with type 2 diabetes and thus reducing the risk of complications.

I've been experimenting with my dosage of Vitamin C and have been up as high as 7000mg in a day (I take 2 1000mg effervescent tablets and 1tsp (5000mg) ascorbic acid in 750ml of water).

Interesting to see that the above study found significant results with 1g doses.

I think that even the study that show a negative impact on BG is helpful. At least it points to a link between Vitamin C intake and BG levels. It's perfectly reasonable to think that a dose of 1g could be beneficial, and a dose of 4g+ could be detrimental...

 

[catherinecherub]

A good article here on Vitamin C. (read the Absorption and Bioavailability as high doses are not recommended but splitting the dosage is as this provides better absorption).

http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Antioxida ... aminC.html

 

[phraedus]

High dose vitamin C (2,000 mg per day) has been shown to reduce the accumulation of sorbitol, a metabolic by-product of glucose metabolism, known to cause chronic complications in the diabetic patient.206 Studies also show that vitamin C supplementation inhibits the glycosylation of proteins (the complexing of protein with sugar), a process that is elevated several-fold in diabetes. Because insulin facilitates the transport of ascorbic acid into cells, many diabetics do not have sufficient vitamin C within their cells despite adequate dietary intake. This chronic deficiency of vitamin C in the diabetic is problematic and leads to vascular disorders, elevated blood cholesterol and depression of the immune system.206 Accordingly, high dose supplementation with vitamin C is an issue of primary concern for the diabetic or pre-diabetic sufferer. Recent studies reveal that vitamin C supplementation, alone, provides a more effective means of correcting sorbitol accumulation than current pharmaceutical approaches.200, 207

.comparativeguide.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=8

 

[phraedus]

(Blog content and link removed. Forum Policy.)

1. Sorbitol (in high antioxidant environment + without ONOO-)  Fructose
2. Sorbitol (in excess free radical environment + with ONOO-) Toxic metabolites
The second reaction yielding toxic metabolites deplete antioxidants in cells leading to an
increase in superoxide and DNA fragmentation that can initiate cancer cell development.
This process puts the diabetic patient with excess sorbitol at a higher risk of cancers and
explains the higher incidence of cancers in the diabetic population

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/Di ... _Singh.pdf

 

[cugila]

Even the water-soluble vitamin C can cause diarrhoea at levels of 2000mg a day, which is lower than the amount some people take in the hope of staving off colds.

A question of need
Taking vitamins and food supplements is neither good nor bad, but unnecessary for most of us. There is a lot to be said for saving the money and splashing out once in a while on a nutritious and delicious well-balanced meal at a ritzy restaurant instead.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/dietandnutri ... tamins.htm

Many studies have since shown that vitamins from supplements do not act on the body in the same way as vitamins from foods.

Apples and pills
Take apples: they are a rich source of vitamin C, which builds up the immune system. But when researchers at Cornell University in New York compared the effects of apples and vitamin C tablets, the results were quite startling.

The apples contained many other naturally occurring chemicals in addition to vitamin C, including antioxidants called flavanoids and polyphenols that are thought to protect against cancer.

This meant that eating a small apple (100g) gave an antioxidant effect equivalent to taking 1500mg of vitamin C – and you'd have to take a mega-dose supplement to achieve that.

One of the study’s authors, Professor Chong Yong Lee, said: 'Some of the chemicals we found in apples are known to be anti-allergenic, some are anti-carcinogenic, anti-inflammatory and anti-viral. Now I have a reason to say an apple a day keeps the doctor away.'

In contrast, a 2004 Cochrane review of studies found there was not enough evidence that 2000mg vitamin C supplements prevented colds in the general population. More recently, the US Women's Health Study found a link between vitamin C supplements and an increased risk of hardening arteries in some people with diabetes.

A good diet is best

 

[jaykay]

I condense the above post to one line : An apple a day keeps the doctor away . I shall stick with my apple!

 

[phraedus]

Also called the sorbitol/aldose reductase pathway, the polyol pathway may be implicated in diabetic complications that result in microvascular damage to nervous tissue, and also to the retina and kidney.

Glucose is a highly reactive compound, and it must be metabolized or it will find tissues in the body to react with. Increased glucose levels, like those seen in diabetes, activates this alternative biochemical pathway, which in turn causes a decrease in glutathione and an increase in reactive oxygen radicals. The pathway is dependent on the enzyme aldose reductase. Inhibitors of this enzyme have demonstrated efficacy in animal models in preventing the development of neuropathy.

The pathway is dependent on the enzyme aldose reductase. Inhibitors of this enzyme have demonstrated efficacy in animal models in preventing the development of neuropathy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_n ... ol_pathway

Vitamin c is the most efficacious inhibitor of aldose reductase that is known to my understanding the only other inhibitors are fenofibrates (sp) for triglycerides.

 

[cugila]

jaykay"
I condense the above post to one line : An apple a day keeps the doctor away . I shall stick with my apple!

Glad to hear it J.......All the previous ones just seem to be promoting the use of supplements, makes you wonder what the aim is.....selling perhaps ??

Merry Christmas BTW.........

I only popped in to see what was happening........ :twisted:

 

[phraedus]

Instead, sorbitol accumulation takes place in the cells of
diabetic patients, known to be associated with chronic complications in diabetic patients.
A high dose vitamin C (2000mg per day) has been shown to reduce the accumulation of
sorbitol (Davie et al, 1992, Effect of Vitamin C on Glycosylation of Proteins, Diabetes
41:167-73). The antioxidant vitamin C is known to suppress the polyol pathway activity
induced by high glucose (Vinson et al, 1989, In

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/Di ... _Singh.pdf

 

[cugila]

All very interesting dear phraedus........do you have a voice of your own perhaps so that us poor mortals can see what you are trying to prove........ :?: You seem pre-occupied with posting other peoples works. Very reminiscent of someone else we know...... :wink:

 

[phraedus]

I'm a 58 yr old retired 6yr diabetic ; I spend most of my day googling diabetes. Its sort of turned into a hobby for me during the winter months.

I found this flow diagram:

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/conten ... l.pdf+html

I basically use it as a template for researching the neuropathies and the hows and whys of them occurring due to hyperglycemia; if I find something interesting I post to a couple of forums.

Just a newbie to diabetes .co.uk still learning the ins and outs of what is allowed

Cheers

 

[cugila]

Glad to hear you are into research.....what we do here all the time, into all sorts of things. Maybe you could put some of what you have found into laymans terms.....you might find people are more receptive when it isn't all techo stuff without any expalnation ?

Anyway, it's late. It's Christmas........

 

[phraedus]

The polyol pathway: The first Horseman of Neuropathy.Also called the sorbitol-aldose reductase pathway.

When there is an excess of glucose in the retinal renal or nerve cell the conversion of glucose goes to sorbitol and then to fructose all is well.\???

As the cell uses the glucose for energy production any excess glucose is diverted to the polyol pathway ; if the mass balance of the equation becomes overwhelmed conversion stops at sorbitol.

Excess sorbitol in the cytoplasm of the cell is detrimental sorbitol scavenges water and swells the cell causing apotosis (cell death).

Vitamin c scavenges sorbitol and rids it from the body it is also an aldose reductase inhibitor so it slows down production of sorbitol as well.

The reason I supplement with vitamin c is that vit c is insulin dependent it uses the same pathway as insulin to enter the cell. However this line of reasoning may be in error retinal renal nerve and endothelial cells do not use insulin they use glut1 which is not insulin dependent this is the reason these cells are affected by the hyperclycemic condition and the rest of the body is not perhaps an apple a day is all it takes, as for me I will keep supplementing.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to et al.

 

[phraedus]

The polyol pathway converts glucose to fructose. Because fructose and its metabolites fructose-3-phosphate and 3-deoxyglucosone are more potent nonenzymatic glycation agents than glucose, the flux of glucose through the polyol pathway would increase advance glycation end products (AGE) formation. AGE, as well as binding of AGE to their receptors, are known to cause oxidative stress.

http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/14/ ... /S233.full

AGE. The second Horseman of Neuropathey. Also known as Advanced Glycation End products

As you can see from the flow diagram the polyol pathway is going to completion to fructose this is feeding back as a toxic metabolite into the remaining pathways to diabetic complication vit c is still good though because it is reducing frucose as an aldose reductase inhibitor and also assisting if the conversion stops at sorbitol.

It is remarkable that these effects were achieved by increasing the dietary availability of thiamine to diabetic rats by as little as 20 times the minimum daily allowance – although this was sufficient to prevent thiamine deficiency.

http://www.uninet.edu/cin2003/conf/thor ... alley.html

In a paper entitled "High prevalence of low plasma thiamine concentration in diabetes linked to a marker of vascular disease", published in Diabetologia on 4th August, the team found that thiamine concentration in blood plasma was decreased 76% in type 1 diabetic patients and 75% in type 2 diabetic patients.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents ... d_vitamin/

The second diagram is known as the PPP pentose phosphate pathway it is regulated by thiamine status if you are deficient in thiamine you will not access this pathway now it is your own personal decision whether to supplement with thiamine or not.

Cheers :?: