Fundamental Question: Do I have Diabetes?

Freema

Expert
Messages
7,346
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello, I live and work in Qatar, and therefore I don't have easy access to the NHS. In fact a few years ago I tried to get them to assess my diabetes from the results tests taken in Qatar. Their response was that they didn't use those units. I was thinking, it's a straight conversion, just Google it! Anyway, it was clear to me that they didn't want to do it.

I don't trust the health professionals here, they don't seem that knowledgable and some will try to change your prescription without any tests; presumably for backhanders from pharmaceutical companies.

Anyway, I have recently done some trials with the Freestyle Libre and love all the data I can get from it. I already know that white rice causes a huge peak; but potatoes, chips and ice-cream appear to have relatively little effect. I am still experimenting so no firm conclusions yet.

So back to the original question, given that I can now calculate the increase, the rate of increase, the recovery rate/time and all sorts of other metrics; is there a way of determining if I actually have diabetes?

actually potatoes and white bread in many spikes the blood glucose just as much as pure sugar does....and some do hardly spike when eating rice... even though most do indeed, each person need to test for herself.. and try to avoid food that spikes ones blood glucose with more than 2 mmol from what it was right before the meal.. and then test around 1 hour and 2 hours after the meal to look for the spike and what it is at its highest
 

first14808

Well-Known Member
Messages
405
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Surely the HbA1c test is based on a fasting compared with measured dose of glucose over time? That means the results should be the same regardless of my diet.

Nope. That test measures glycated haemoglobin and gives a measure of how sweet & sticky your blood's been over 3 months or so. If it reads high, ie diabetic or pre-diabetic, then a retest after 3 months helps form a diagnosis. To be meaningful, it probably needs to be based on your normal diet. Doctors may use other tests as well though. My next test is due now, and will hopefully show an improvement given I've been doing the low carb diet.
 

Resurgam

Expert
Messages
9,849
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I don't really understand why you'd want to stop eating low carb foods in order to have potatoes bread rice etc - but I have needed to control my weight by avoiding sugars and starches all my adult life. The same diet has normalized my blood glucose and I got a normal range Hba1c level over six months ago, so for me, at least, all those cholesterol lowering starches on the diet sheet - which caused rapid weight gain and I felt so old too - are not a healthy balanced diet but a way to take away my health and vitality very rapidly - turning me into an old woman needing a nap after lunch and to go to bed early.
I'd advise having a regular check of Hba1c levels, and to watch for any symptoms, but if you are lucky and do not need medication then a low carb diet should keep you healthy even if you are a type two.
 

Mokkijo

Well-Known Member
Messages
69
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Dislikes
Coffee w/heavy cream, I make a home made low carb bread that has really helped me stay on track.
Dear Catapillar,

Thank you for getting back to me.


My doctors have always been happy to accept appointments and provide me with the medication I need. I guess that as I have paid my stamp all my life and my NI contributions are fully paid up, then that's fine. A friend of mine is retired and living in Qatar and she gets her pension, including heating allowance!


That's good; although the amount of carbohydrates I ate was small and distributed over several meals.
I checked back in my records and I have a peaks on
19 January of 12.2 mol/l,
20 January of 11.9 mol/l, 12.8 mol/l and 13.4 mol/l,
26 January of 11.6 mol/l.
But these are short terms peaks, often just one reading with the longest lasting about 40 minutes.
This was due to me simply eating anything, in particular rice which Have found tends peak my levels,

My overall average glucose is as follows:
00h00 to 06h00 5.5 mol/l
06h00 to 12h00 6.2 mol/l
12h00 to 18h00 6.4 mol/l
18h00 to 00h00 6.0 mol/l
Overall 6.1 mol/l

Time in Target (range 4 to 6 mol/l):
Above 45%
In Target 54%
Below 1%


MY HbA1C results that I've had done are as follows:
01-Oct-13 5.6%
12-May-14 5.8%
08-Nov-14 5.9%

The problem is that the results are based on a low carb/ketogenic type diet and I'm finding it hard to go back to a standard diet. This morning I had two hard boiled eggs for breakfast and my glucose levels stayed around 5.2 mol/l. A chocolate covered ice cream at mid morning raised it to 8.9 mol/l for a short time.


That's what I don't trust; some doctors say that I am Pre-diabetic,some say that I'm LADA and some say that I'm Type 2. I've not had antibody testing; in fact nobody has ever suggested this before. I am confused by this and would rather self diagnose. I was taking Metformin until recently when I acquired the FreeStyle Libre and I was on a very strict low carbohydrate diet.

Does this help?
As someone stated, I would not be so concerned w "Pre-D" labels, but are my blood sugars in the higher than normal range? A normal BS is 83, so the 90's is considered pre-D. I'd absolutely NOT go on any medications.
 

lindijanice

Well-Known Member
Messages
433
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hey Kate, I would like to know why you want to eat so much carb when you were apparently doing LCHF? Tired of it? Did it work to keep you numbers where they belong?
My guess with the chips would be that the fat from frying them has slowed their digestion and hence not such a sudden rise like with the rice....cheers/L
 

Kate_B

Well-Known Member
Messages
51
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
War, news
Hey Kate, I would like to know why you want to eat so much carb when you were apparently doing LCHF? Tired of it? Did it work to keep you numbers where they belong?
My guess with the chips would be that the fat from frying them has slowed their digestion and hence not such a sudden rise like with the rice....cheers/L
Hey Linda,

Good question.

It all stemmed from watching a seminar on some recent research suggesting that there is no best diet for humans and that individuals respond differently to different carbohydrate types. Moreover their research apparently indicates that these responses can be predicted. I tried to get this establishment to test me; but they say they can only do this for Israeli and American citizens.

Eating a low carb diet can be challenging at times; less choice, low energy episodes and difficulty when eating out and socialising. It struck me that, if certain carbohydrates had less effect that it would widen my choice without unduly affecting my health. It was then when I became aware of the FreeStyle Libre and it really sparked my interest.

This also sparked more fundamental questions, such as ‘do I actually have diabetes’, ‘what are safe results’. I think these have been more or less answered and I feel confident moving forward abandoning the Metformin and using my results to guide me. I still want to follow a low carb diet, but I also want the freedom to deviate from that without undue consequences.

I hope that has explained my aims a bit better.

Kind regards
Kate
 

Olufisayo

Well-Known Member
Messages
116
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Going out. After closing from work, I relax at home.
If you have access to a BG meter and glucose (get from chemists) then you could do the following test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose_tolerance_test

I would think getting some safety advice first would be very advisable before doing this test.

In my case I did the test myself (as haven’t seen a diabetes consultant in nearly 2 years) and passed the test (without any medication) for the end of type 2 in Aug last year and the end of pre-diabetes in Oct last year.

Wow! How did you do it?
 

JohnEGreen

Master
Messages
13,188
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Tripe and Onions
Eating a low carb diet can be challenging at times; less choice, low energy episodes and difficulty when eating out and socialising. It struck me that, if certain carbohydrates had less effect that it would widen my choice without unduly affecting my health. It was then when I became aware of the FreeStyle Libre and it really sparked my interest.
That's why eating to your meter is so important that is how you determine which carbs you can tolerate and those you cannot.
 

Kate_B

Well-Known Member
Messages
51
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
War, news
That's why eating to your meter is so important that is how you determine which carbs you can tolerate and those you cannot.
???? Isn’t that what I said?
Sorry, what’s your point, I’m confused by your reply.
 

paulus1

Well-Known Member
Messages
843
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
if your hba1c is still the same as before your diabetic. why are you not on meds. there should be a decent consultant there. to the type has you have not been hospitalized then odds are your type2
 

paulus1

Well-Known Member
Messages
843
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
also areyoutrying to raise you bg that diet is madness crisps and spuds are not going to do you any good.
 
P

pollensa

Guest
Hello, I live and work in Qatar, and therefore I don't have easy access to the NHS. In fact a few years ago I tried to get them to assess my diabetes from the results tests taken in Qatar. Their response was that they didn't use those units. I was thinking, it's a straight conversion, just Google it! Anyway, it was clear to me that they didn't want to do it.

I don't trust the health professionals here, they don't seem that knowledgable and some will try to change your prescription without any tests; presumably for backhanders from pharmaceutical companies.

Anyway, I have recently done some trials with the Freestyle Libre and love all the data I can get from it. I already know that white rice causes a huge peak; but potatoes, chips and ice-cream appear to have relatively little effect. I am still experimenting so no firm conclusions yet.

So back to the original question, given that I can now calculate the increase, the rate of increase, the recovery rate/time and all sorts of other metrics; is there a way of determining if I actually have diabetes?


Hello There,

I am in same situation, from Australia, British, but reside Mallorca. Unfortunately, due to the diabetes system set up all their cut off levels to give a label diagnosis if one is Pre or diabetic are ARTBITRARY SET NUMBERS, acknowledged by the ADA and others, are at whim, random choice, with no backup support of clinical or medical evidence as t the final number A1C test or realblood finger tests, they all differ worldwide. So... its a case of WHERE YOU ARE RESIDING IN THE WORLD TIME OF DIAGNOSIS.

Myself, in NZ they have 6.7% cut off with two tests A1C blood test with abnormal finger tests if viewed diabetic
here in Spain cut off is 6.5% if one has 6.6% in Spain you are viewed diabetic!
In Australia New Zealand, you are viewed as PRE DIABETIC.

How confusing is that.

You are not wrong in your assumptions, the medical world and pharms are linked, and of course, Diabetes in my personal opinion from researches al 300 pages in all! I have come to the conclusion is the biggest business in the world, Diabetes is nt going away. When numbers for lab testing and finger testing are reduced i.e,. it was 140mg/dl fasting as normal if below,
then 2010 dropped a further 110mg/dl, then again to 100mg/dl what heppend inbetween, normal people suddenly overnight became abnormal pre or diabetic, resulting, thousands off to the pharmas as prescribed drugs and need monitors for finger testing etc.......this is frightening........ yes its explained lowering numbers is to catch the disease earlier, yes this sounds fine, but not so black and white, firstly, not all numbers suit the same person, age and motifivation life style has to be taken into consideration and is not sadly. Then we have the worry, perhaps many people mis diagnosed unnecessary given a life changing label of diabetes! when they may only be Pre for example, caution and take control......or over prescribed metformin or other drugs unnecessarily????

I am sceptical being resident in Spain about diabetes and its numbers until they have a clinical and medically supported cut off number that the world follows strictly, I dont even worry about checking fingers anymore only 4 monthly, for the fact I am placed in a situatino Spain labeled diabetic, v. new Zealand I am viewed Pre Diabetic.

diabetes world should be embarrassed and feel disgrace to allow such a confusing situation to take place.

My suggestion not a doctor would be to ask for an A1C, but have your fingers checked fasting, 2hr after eat and random anytime after breakfast. See the results.

If they you come under being diabetic in country your in, get second opinion and dont panic, as each country differs on their levels of cut offs, and take that into consideration, I would get a Genteel finger tester they are great no pain and no sore fingers, as peace of mind for yourself, and whatever your tests reveal Pre or Diabetic, once you get home, ask for the same tests and see the difference, that may assist in the interim

i can relate to concerns in being overseas in another country, when each countries levels differ, that is not to say Qatar is wrong, or Spain where I live, they are just following the medical cut off rule of that country, but that also does not mean they may be 100% correct, New Zealand is not wrong either, again, following their more pragmatic sensible approach to cut off levels taking into consideration age of person and other.

Just ask for the two tests for your peace of mind, A1C and three finger tests.

View Dr. Jason Fung on two lies about diabetes. Also view how to reverse diabetes, I am a great fan.

At the moment as you state you DO NOT KNOW if you are, so dont worry about something that has not happend yet, cross that bridge if it comes, if you are diabetic, its reversable and curable despite what the say its chronic and progressive, all you have to do and is recommended to help reverse and good for Pre diabetics too

eat low carb 20 to 50 a day
View www.dietdoctor.com website wonderful
Eat Keto foods programme
Exercise walk min 5 klm a day
If you have treadmill walk 10 mins on tread at 5.7klm an hour after breakie, lunch and dinner evening
Intermittent fast as and when you want or able

I did this, I turned around reversed my A1C results by 23%, lost 21 kilos in 11 months, and lost 23cm off my waist, by doing simple change of lifestyle, I have total control on consistent basis of my sugars which are all normal for fasting, 2 hr after eat and random any time.

Dont worry your in Qatar, here in Mallorca I have had same problem.

I changed my doc 2 times, now finally found a doc with same approach as New Zealand, prefers lifestyle change for his patients rather than medication first, and first thing he did was wipe and delete the label word in the spanish system of my medical records froM DIABETIC, to PRE DIABETIC.

So, if the doc does not support you he is not the right doc, and get another one.

Hope this helps. Dont worry, especially if you dont know whether you are diabetic or not.

Mallorca
 
P

pollensa

Guest
Hi Alexandra,

Thank you for your reply and data. My main concern is being unnecessarily on Metformin (which I have stopped taking) and ensuring that I eat a balanced and healthy diet that does not adversely affect my health.

I have attached my Glucose results for today; please bear in mind that I am experimenting and what I am currently eating does not necessarily represent my usual diet. I was on a ketogenic diet up until about three weeks ago.

My intake for today was:
07h33 Two fried eggs and 1.5 fried potatoes
10h15 One 40g packet of crisps
12h40 Homemade Chilli con Carne and half a baked potato
15h20 Half a bowl of Homemade Chicken, Lentil and Chorizo soup

I would be interested in your opinion.

Kind regards
Kate


Kate, oh dear,

did you know 1 potato is equivalent to approx 1 cup of sugar!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes really....

One should not eat bread potatoes pasta or rice if wanting to try and control their blood sugars.

substitute these for example

bread, I make own seed crackers with sunflower sesame chia and flax
rice, I grate caulifour
bread, I eat moderate pumpkin portions
pasta, i spiralize courgette/zuchinni and use zuchinni for lasagna

yum yum much more healthy eating, to have fried potatoes, oh my goodness not good!!!!!! packet of crisps even worse I am affraid to say, this is very unhealthy style of eating.

Mallorca
 
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JohnEGreen

Master
Messages
13,188
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
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Tripe and Onions
???? Isn’t that what I said?
Sorry, what’s your point, I’m confused by your reply.
Well take it as an affirmation of what you said then or just me trying to be informative It is strange though how intentions often do not translate to actions.

If you where to follow your meter you would realize that potato and crisps will raise blood sugar and if they do and you truly think you are diabetic then you would eliminate them from your diet .

It really, when it comes down to it does not matter how others such as doctors define you, I was told by a GP for two years that I was not diabetic when it was obvious that I was so though not diagnosed formally I ignored him and started treating my self as best I could by reducing sugar and carbs and striving to lose weight.
 

lindijanice

Well-Known Member
Messages
433
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hey Kate and Pollensa, Thanks for your clarification, Kate on the increase in carb eating and for your thoughts, Pollensa. I had started a thread a bit ago as to just how strict do we need to be in our number ranges because as you pointed out, Pollensa, the numbers for diagnosis keep getting lower (I think it is big pharma!) here in Canada as well....and the lack of consistency on the world stage is terrible, as well as the care received in many countries and they are not all "third world countries"!

Kate, I appreciated your response as I think you are right about being able to have a bit of wiggle room...I try to keep a few carbs unaccounted for when I make up my weekly menus so that I can try something if out with friends, or have a few bites of creme brulle! It hasn't killed me yet and I don't do it often or I pay the price with greater hankerings for carbs - especially in this horrible Canadian winter:(

Keep plugging along and see what works best for you - some call potatoes evil, but they may not be for you! They are for me I have learned, so chose not to indulge, but what works for one doesn't mean it will work for all. I do appreciate your bringing up this discussion as it has been informative and interesting and encourages me to keep on trying to tweak my own journey and enjoy the ride while I am at it! Blessings/L
 

rmz80

Well-Known Member
Messages
332
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Wow! How did you do it?
I believe some people have used Lucozade Original to do this test but are now complaining that the glucose content was recently changed.

If you are in the UK you can get Glucose from Superdrug or Boots (it’s used a lot in some sports such as weightlifting). I used 75g of powder dissolved in tepid water for 15 min.
 

Alexandra100

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I can't believe how prescriptive (ie bossy) people are being about those wretched potatoes. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, Kate says she is on a Libre, she is experimenting to see what spikes her and potatoes don't do so unduly, especially crisps. So why should she give them up, just because they spike most people? Since she is doing continuous monitoring, you can't even think she may have missed her peak bg after eating potatoes.

Personally, in order to get my bg anywhere near the levels I want, I have to eat LCHF and only about 20g carbs daily, but I don't think that is giving me an optimal balanced diet. I just think lowering bg takes priority over pretty well all other considerations. If I could get away with eating more fruit and vegetables and chocolate and nuts and even oats, I'd eat them like a shot and probably be the better for it. IMO the best diet for diabetes is the one where you eat as much variety as possible while keeping bg low and steady. The amount of carbs we can afford to eat varies from person to person and Kate is luckier than me, that's all. Myself, given a few more grams of carbs I'd not spend them on potatoes, but everyone is free to choose.

I very much appreciate having the option of LCHF, but why do it's enthusiasts have to be so Calvinist about it? It's not a religion, just a method of coping with a rather nasty health problem.
 

Alexandra100

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
"Dost thou think, because thou art virtuous, there shall be no more cakes and ale?" Shakespeare, "Twelth Night".
 
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Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I agree with @Alexandra100

I eat to my meter (and to a Libre when I use one) and because of that I know I can eat potatoes (new ones, roasties, crisps and homemade chips cooked in lard). Portions have to be small, and I have to consider what else is on the plate. My meter has also told me what size the portions need to be. Same with peas and cooked carrots. The crisps are occasional and always part of a meal, such as a salad, but a handful does nothing to my levels. Fruit and flour on the other hand are completely different matters.
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
My body tolerates potatoes MUCH better than grains. Carb for carb, there is less blood glucose impact, better digestion, less water retention and more enjoyment.

On the other hand, sweet potatoes cause bg spikes and fluid retention, and those grains... and gluten... no thanks. They cause me psoriasis and bg spikes.

All anyone needs is their own blood glucose monitor, a willingness to test, and an enquiring mind.
Then they can map out their own perfect way of eating.
I don’t see that adamant declarations that certain foods are ‘wrong’ are helpful to anyone, when each of us reacts to those foods differently.
 
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