Newcastle Diet Help

[Loumo]

I've been a keen reader of posts on here and have found them a great support, I'm half way through week 6 of the Newcastle Diet (Having 3 Low Sugar Exante Shakes and 200 cals of veg everyday)

I've lost about 2,5 stone, have been feeling good and have seen a significant reduction in my FBG (around 11 - 6)

I have been much less hungry than I though I would be and have handled it quite well I think....until now! This week I feel sooo hungry and all of a sudden quite weak and lethargic, do I just need to power through this feeling or should I listen to my body.

Also I'm starting to plan what I will do after week 8, I'm thinking LCHF and around 1000- 1200 cals a day, in your experience has this worked, do I need to be prepared to gain weight?

Thanks in advance

 

[Pipp]

Hello, @Loumo, and welcome. Just in case you haven't already seen it, I am tagging @daisy1 who will post information for new members here, soon.

As for your queries regarding Newcastle diet, a bit more information would be useful. Such as, (and very importantly) are you being supported by GP or medical professional in this? Is your weight, BG and blood pressure being monitored? Also are you having ketones measured? What if any medication do you take? Age, gender, other medical conditions all need to be taken into account, too. I would always recommend getting GP support with any very low calorie diet regime.

I would be a bit concerned about feeling weak and lethargic. It could be due to diet, or something else. WhenI followed ND method I felt well the whole time.

As for your query regarding follow on diet, low carb in an excellent way forward. The calorie intake you suggest seems rather low, and many people on LCHF find it unnecessary to count calories. It was a bit of trial and error for me when I finished ND. At first I found I could eat carb foods without the spikes in blood glucose, but did find that I craved more carbs as I find that food group to be addictive. Also, as my gut cannot handle high volumes of fat I now eat low carb foods with moderate fats, including full fat dairy products.

It isn't really possible to advise on your weakness and lethargy. That could be due to illness, or other factors. Only you can make the decision on whether or not to discontinue ND method. Perhaps your doctor needs to be consulted.

When you do reintroduce real food do it gradually. Add small portion of protein to one veg meal the first day, then small portion protein food to two meals the second day. Slowly introduce fat after day 3, and introduce carbs last by day 5. Test blood glucose regularly to see if anything is causing any spikes. You may see a small weight gain, so would be wise to monitor that and be aware of how much and what you are able to eat.

 

[ringi]

You will regain a little weight, this is not an issue provided it is only a few pounds.

Most people on this site find that some sort of "low carbs" works well for controlling weight, often there is no need to count cals provided the carbs are kept very low.

One option is to start with replacing your evening shake with "meat that looks like meat" or "fish that looks like fish" - for example, a rib eye steak along with the veg, adding a little butter or olive oil to the veg. (Use your BG to check your BG does not increase by more than 2 between before the meal and 2hr after the meal.)

Then plan the low carb food you will eat for other meals, replacing the shakes with real food one meal at a time. (Eggs are great for breakfast.) dietdoctor is the goto website for lowcarb meal ideals.

 

[ringi]

At first I found I could eat carb foods without the spikes in blood glucose, but did find that I craved more carbs as I find that food group to be addictive.

The above cannot be overstated.

It has been proven that lots of people eat more if they each any sugar or processed carbs. Therefore I would strongly recommend anyone coming off the ND to avoid high carb food. It takes at least 40 days for new habits to get formed, therefore I would recommend avoiding all carbs (other than above ground veg) for the first 40 days after the ND. (After the 40 days, you may consider having a few carbs when eating out etc but limited to once a week to begin with, provided they don't peak your BG, or result in you wanting to eat more.)

(As to fat levels, the key is to avoid anything sold as "low fat" rather than add much fat to your food.)

 

[Guzzler]

I can't add anything to what has been said upthread, it answers your questions really but I just wanted to say welcome to the forum and very well done on your progress. Smashing weight loss and better blood glucose levels means you are definitely doing something right!

 

[Loumo]

Thanks for the really interesting replies and fab advice!

I wish I'd posted on here sooner, it's felt like a lonely journey at times.

I'm doing this without my GP's direct support. I don't have time for numerous appointments to discuss reduction of meds, when I've often found I am the best judge of my own body - I realise how rebellious that sounds and I know it was probably not the wisest move. I do know from previous conversations I have had with my GP that he advocates the Newcastle Diet theory. I am checking my BG 5 or 6 times a day and my BP at regular intervals, I'd just had my HBA1c taken prior to starting the diet.

I was on Metformin, Gliclazide, Victoza and Ramipril but have stopped taking all of these over the last 6 weeks.

My starting weight was pretty high for my height (around 17st, giving me a starting BMI of 40)

I've been T2 for about 12 years (I'm 41) I am realistic about the fact that Prof Roy Taylor suggests that remission is more likely in those diagnosed less than 10 years ago. I'm hopeful it will work but realistic about the fact I may need to take some medication to help my body along once I go back to a more reasonable calorie consumption.

I think the advice about carb addiction is very wise, I will aim to avoid carbs for the majority of the time, and perhaps allow myself a treat every now and again. (I need to be careful with this because I do recognise the more I eat the more I crave) Maybe one day my desire for bread and potatoes will disappear for good?! I doubt it

Upon reflection I think my lethargy is low mood, being totally honest (even if a little dramatic!) that I think I am grieving for the food that used to give me so much pleasure, I'm learning to replace food with other things in my life but it will take time.

Thanks again! Lou

 

[ringi]

I'm learning to replace food with other things in my life but it will take time.

Test your BG before and 2hr after each meal, then celebrate (maybe with a song and dance) every time it increased by less than 2. You are trying to train your brain to give you pleasure from making good food chooses.

When thinking about carb addiction, remember what recovering alcoholics are advanced to do...

I was on Metformin, Gliclazide, Victoza and Ramipril but have stopped taking all of these over the last 6 weeks.

We can never advise anyone to change drugs without seeing their GPs as we are not doctors, but you are not the first person, and will not be the last person who gets great result by taking control of your their health....

Personly I am happy to be Metformin for life (as I don't get the side effects), remember if you restart it, to take it with food and slowly build up the dose. (Some of the leading low carb experts recommend Metformin even when people get normal A1C results.)

Gliclazide has a risk of Hypos and the last thing you want is a drug stopping you improving your lifestyle...... (But keeping it on the repeat prescription system allows your GP to prescribe BG test strips.)

Maybe it is time to make a double length appointment with your GP and take along the charts of your BG readings..... Ideally get a new A1C first, as that will give the GP more data to look at.

 

[Pipp]

Thanks for the really interesting replies and fab advice!

I wish I'd posted on here sooner, it's felt like a lonely journey at times.

I'm doing this without my GP's direct support. I don't have time for numerous appointments to discuss reduction of meds, when I've often found I am the best judge of my own body - I realise how rebellious that sounds and I know it was probably not the wisest move. I do know from previous conversations I have had with my GP that he advocates the Newcastle Diet theory. I am checking my BG 5 or 6 times a day and my BP at regular intervals, I'd just had my HBA1c taken prior to starting the diet.

I was on Metformin, Gliclazide, Victoza and Ramipril but have stopped taking all of these over the last 6 weeks.

My starting weight was pretty high for my height (around 17st, giving me a starting BMI of 40)

I've been T2 for about 12 years (I'm 41) I am realistic about the fact that Prof Roy Taylor suggests that remission is more likely in those diagnosed less than 10 years ago. I'm hopeful it will work but realistic about the fact I may need to take some medication to help my body along once I go back to a more reasonable calorie consumption.

I think the advice about carb addiction is very wise, I will aim to avoid carbs for the majority of the time, and perhaps allow myself a treat every now and again. (I need to be careful with this because I do recognise the more I eat the more I crave) Maybe one day my desire for bread and potatoes will disappear for good?! I doubt it

Upon reflection I think my lethargy is low mood, being totally honest (even if a little dramatic!) that I think I am grieving for the food that used to give me so much pleasure, I'm learning to replace food with other things in my life but it will take time.

Thanks again! Lou

I am concerned that you have stopped medication without consulting GP. Although I am of the mindset that one should take ownership of one's own health and wellbeing, where medication is concerned I would always advocate medical advice before making changes.

 

[ringi]

This is a hard problem:

• Most GP understandably don't believe people will make diet changes when they are told, hence will not stop medications until the A1C proves they are no longer needed.
• Some GPs will make use of people's own BG readings if their BG readings are dropping fast due to a change in diet.
• (Most GPs will make use of people's own blood pressure readings.)
• Yet few people can get in to see their "normal GP" quickly enough to prevent hypos
• This problem is much worse if someones BG is already well controlled with meds, as there is less room for errors on the way down to hypos.

Hence I would like GPs to give out written instructions to people who are changing their diets on how to test BG, and at what levels to stop each.medications - maybe if people started asking, they would get such instructions. It would be so much easier if Gliclazide was taken out of usage, as most of the more "modern" drugs used for Type2 have minimal risk of hypos, so don't need to be stopped quickly as BG drops. (Yet without Gliclazide on the repeat prescription system few people with Type2 would get test strips from the NHS.)

(At least with insulin the NHS offers training to everyone on it, on how to change their own doses.)

If I remember correctly, the protocol for the Newcastle Diet study had most meds being stopped on day one, reviewing after 2 weeks and only reintroducing BG meds if over 20. Everyone who I recall reporting their BG numbers on this forum while reducing their own meds on the ND, have got much tighter control than this.

Yet I am fearful that someone will reduce a medication that has nothing to do with BG, and put themselves in danger, due to not having support from a medic. This has to be balanced with the 100% certain bad outcome if people do not get their Type2 under control.....

 

[daisy1]

@Loumo

Hello Loumo and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask as many questions as you like and someone will be able to help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  
  
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
  

 

[AlcalaBob]

This is a hard problem:

• Most GP understandably don't believe people will make diet changes when they are told, hence will not stop medications until the A1C proves they are no longer needed.
• Some GPs will make use of people's own BG readings if their BG readings are dropping fast due to a change in diet.
• (Most GPs will make use of people's own blood pressure readings.)
• Yet few people can get in to see their "normal GP" quickly enough to prevent hypos
• This problem is much worse if someones BG is already well controlled with meds, as there is less room for errors on the way down to hypos.

Hence I would like GPs to give out written instructions to people who are changing their diets on how to test BG, and at what levels to stop each.medications - maybe if people started asking, they would get such instructions. It would be so much easier if Gliclazide was taken out of usage, as most of the more "modern" drugs used for Type2 have minimal risk of hypos, so don't need to be stopped quickly as BG drops. (Yet without Gliclazide on the repeat prescription system few people with Type2 would get test strips from the NHS.)

(At least with insulin the NHS offers training to everyone on it, on how to change their own doses.)

If I remember correctly, the protocol for the Newcastle Diet study had most meds being stopped on day one, reviewing after 2 weeks and only reintroducing BG meds if over 20. Everyone who I recall reporting their BG numbers on this forum while reducing their own meds on the ND, have got much tighter control than this.

Yet I am fearful that someone will reduce a medication that has nothing to do with BG, and put themselves in danger, due to not having support from a medic. This has to be balanced with the 100% certain bad outcome if people do not get their Type2 under control.....

I completely endorse this advice from @ringi. Having just completed the ND (and I'm continuing it to get to a target weight) I can confirm that the medication issue is a very difficult problem. If you take insulin, that will resist the weight reduction but reducing the insulin will also result in higher BG readings. Medical advice is really important so that small changes can be made safely. I was able, after some experimenting and one or two mistakes (but no hypos) to get a dosage level where my BG was around 5 and the weight was coming down. Increasing the dose stalled the weight loss, reducing it too much sent the BG up. This is a bigger problem for medication that stimulates the production of insulin so it's much less of a problem with metformin. Insulin on the other hand is a biggy. I'd strongly advise talking to the GP.

But also I'd stress that some GPs (mine included) simply wouldn't believe that the ND would produce good results. When I took my numbers to him after completing the ND, he was astounded, but still skeptical. He had never seen a long-term diabetic asking to reduce their prescription for medication. Though he had to acknowledge my 10kg weight loss and the fact that my BG was in the normal range since the first few days, and I had halved my medication, he really couldn't explain any of that. They really do only trust the HbA1c lab result but that's a weighted three-month average and we need checks daily. GPs know that meters have an error rate up to 20% either way but they are generally consistent over time, and between 4 and 6 they are pretty good but we can understand their suspicion of 'user data'.

I think @ringi is absolutely right to highlight the need for GP education and printed advice for those undertaking trial diets. I wish I'd had access to something like that.

 

[Tannith]

I've been a keen reader of posts on here and have found them a great support, I'm half way through week 6 of the Newcastle Diet (Having 3 Low Sugar Exante Shakes and 200 cals of veg everyday)

I've lost about 2,5 stone, have been feeling good and have seen a significant reduction in my FBG (around 11 - 6)

I have been much less hungry than I though I would be and have handled it quite well I think....until now! This week I feel sooo hungry and all of a sudden quite weak and lethargic, do I just need to power through this feeling or should I listen to my body.

Also I'm starting to plan what I will do after week 8, I'm thinking LCHF and around 1000- 1200 cals a day, in your experience has this worked, do I need to be prepared to gain weight?

Thanks in advance

I had the same experience. Strangely though some of the time the hunger seemed to go away altogether, at other times I was ravenous. Each spell off hunger/no hunger would last for a few days then change again. Sometimes I felt weak and lethargic like you, and I tried to make sure I did not go out while I was feeling like that in case I walked in from to a car or something. I have finished the diet now and my HBA1c is down to 40 and FBG down to 5.3. Itt is 2.5 months sine I finished and so far I have not put any weight back on. I have not found that difficult as I think my stomach must have shrunk. I can eat what carbs I like now, within reason. I have just eaten 5 pancakes!

 

[Pipp]

I had the same experience. Strangely though some of the time the hunger seemed to go away altogether, at other times I was ravenous. Each spell off hunger/no hunger would last for a few days then change again. Sometimes I felt weak and lethargic like you, and I tried to make sure I did not go out while I was feeling like that in case I walked in from to a car or something. I have finished the diet now and my HBA1c is down to 40 and FBG down to 5.3. Itt is 2.5 months sine I finished and so far I have not put any weight back on. I have not found that difficult as I think my stomach must have shrunk. I can eat what carbs I like now, within reason. I have just eaten 5 pancakes!

In the early post ND days, perhaps the first year or so, I too was able to eat high carb diet with no ill effect to blood glucose levels. However, after about 2 years I noticed carb craving, and a gradual weight gain. Although some of this was due to greatly impaired mobility following two major surgical procedures, and dependency on others for catering, I believe it was the carb consumption that caused the added weight. Even though most of the carbs were of the ' Healthy' NHS recommended diet type and portion size.
Take care, @Tannith, as 2.5 months is still early days.

 

[Tannith]

In the early post ND days, perhaps the first year or so, I too was able to eat high carb diet with no ill effect to blood glucose levels. However, after about 2 years I noticed carb craving, and a gradual weight gain. Although some of this was due to greatly impaired mobility following two major surgical procedures, and dependency on others for catering, I believe it was the carb consumption that caused the added weight. Even though most of the carbs were of the ' Healthy' NHS recommended diet type and portion size.
Take care, @Tannith, as 2.5 months is still early days.

Thank you for sharing that

 

[Tannith]

I do know from previous conversations I have had with my GP that he advocates the Newcastle Diet theory.

This is great! If only more GPs were aware of ND! Once they (and the world in general) know more about it they may support their patients in losing their pancreatic fat. And colleagues and relatives of T2s will be able to tell them about it if the T2s themselves were not aware of it. I hope it will soon become widely known that pancreatic fat is a necessary feature of T2. http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/36/4/1047