Barnard vegan diet

[moveZen]

Hey guys,

first, introducing myself: I'm a prediabetic in an early stage, diagnosed one year ago with HbA1c 5.3%. Luckily, my doctor went for the good old OGTT that discovered the disorder then.

Anyway, since then I settled for a LCHF diet, which worked pretty well. A1C dopped to 5.0%. Had no bad experiences with that diet. However, blood values showed increased cholesterol and a sour ph-value. So I happen to come across Barnard who proposes a strict vegan diet. I am trying it for several days now and it feels pretty good to be honest.

My breakfast consist of self made oatmeal with fruits now (gee, this is so delicious, never tried that before). The first days I measured my BG and I was really surprised about the moderate impact on my levels. It was like 140/45min and 108/60min. However, I found that too surprising and had a certain feeling. So I measured more continuous. And there I had the proof: 109/20min, 212/30min, 197/40min. So the only reason why I had moderate increases the day before is because I measured too late. Oatmeal impacts my level surprisingly fast, only after 20 minutes already.

Needless to say, this diet cannot work for prediabetics if you have to accept such dramatic spikes which fiercely attack your beta cells. If you do this every morning it is just a matter of time that your beta cells will cave in, rather sooner than later. And I will certainly not try this for several weeks, as Barnard suggests, while stating the spikes will cease later.

Anyway, I am still curious and would like to ask if someone is on this forum who tried this quasi-contradicting diet. Not avoiding carbs but actually implmenting them to a great amount into your diet still seems quite interesting to me. Here is the summary of his diet again:

1. No animal products
2. No other fat (like oils)
3. Only low GI/GL food

His four groups of nutrition:

1. Legumes
2. Grains
3. Fruits
4. Vegetabiles

Ok, I am happy to discuss now

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Sounds like too many carbs. Good luck, though.

 

[moveZen]

Indeed. It feels kind of contradictory as lowcarb seems to be all-pervasive nowadays. And of course it makes sense: set aside what makes you sick.

But still, I am curious. Either you find accounts from ppl who haven't tried it, saying "too much carbs" (like you did for a good reason) or you find very obvious and shabby promotion by Barnard's followers....and most likely business partners in debt ;-)

So, as a prediabetic my aim is to at least freeze the current state. Needless to say, it would be great if there is a possibility to increase insulin sensitivity again. Would be great to meet some ppl who are pre as well and tried low GI/GL food instead of LCHF, or even Barnard's strict type of a vegan diet. In his book he writes that insulin sensitivity increases after 14 weeks, measured by OGTT in a very small study with 69 participants. I somehow doubt that this applies to prediabetics but more to the classic obese T2 diabetic with HbA1c beyond 8%.

Btw: I like the term postdiabetic in your signature.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

You say you are going to try this diet for several days. Why not follow the diet as it's recommended?

 

[moveZen]

I am doing already. As I said, it feels good. But: BG levels are apparently increasing at this time, so I am looking for experienced ppl with long term observations. If these elevated levels perpetuate then the price is high. My beta cells won't reward me for those constant attacks.

I am on this diet since monday now. Way too early for a final conclusion. All I can say for now: significantly elevated BG levels compared to my LCHF diet before.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Yikes! What about your morning fasting blood glucose levels?

 

[moveZen]

FBG is quite stable below 100. But FBG would be the least value to climb. First you see the impacts on your postprandial values, later the FBG will increase as well.

 

[jack412]

My breakfast consist of self made oatmeal with fruits now (gee, this is so delicious, never tried that before). The first days I measured my BG and I was really surprised about the moderate impact on my levels. It was like 140/45min and 108/60min.

more power to you, I'd spike really high..I couldn't eat that without going onto insulin

 

[moveZen]

It looks good because I missed the spike for some minutes. The next day I tested after 20 and 30 minutes respectively. That drew antoher picture: 109(6.0) and 212(11.7) respectively.

Btw: it is not common to use mg/dl here, right?

 

[Pot]

Hey guys,

first, introducing myself: I'm a prediabetic in an early stage, diagnosed one year ago with HbA1c 5.3%. Luckily, my doctor went for the good old OGTT that discovered the disorder then.

Anyway, since then I settled for a LCHF diet, which worked pretty well. A1C dopped to 5.0%. Had no bad experiences with that diet. However, blood values showed increased cholesterol and a sour ph-value. So I happen to come across Barnard who proposes a strict vegan diet. I am trying it for several days now and it feels pretty good to be honest.

My breakfast consist of self made oatmeal with fruits now (gee, this is so delicious, never tried that before). The first days I measured my BG and I was really surprised about the moderate impact on my levels. It was like 140/45min and 108/60min. However, I found that too surprising and had a certain feeling. So I measured more continuous. And there I had the proof: 109/20min, 212/30min, 197/40min. So the only reason why I had moderate increases the day before is because I measured too late. Oatmeal impacts my level surprisingly fast, only after 20 minutes already.

Needless to say, this diet cannot work for prediabetics if you have to accept such dramatic spikes which fiercely attack your beta cells. If you do this every morning it is just a matter of time that your beta cells will cave in, rather sooner than later. And I will certainly not try this for several weeks, as Barnard suggests, while stating the spikes will cease later.

Anyway, I am still curious and would like to ask if someone is on this forum who tried this quasi-contradicting diet. Not avoiding carbs but actually implmenting them to a great amount into your diet still seems quite interesting to me. Here is the summary of his diet again:

1. No animal products
2. No other fat (like oils)
3. Only low GI/GL food

His four groups of nutrition:

1. Legumes
2. Grains
3. Fruits
4. Vegetabiles

Ok, I am happy to discuss now

 

[moveZen]

Ok, some time on this diet now. My glocose levels are obviously improving. But before shouting hoorey, I'd like to remark that it is unlikely to be the effect of this particular diet but simply caused by the loading of carbs. My body is getting used to carb loading again and so the postprandial levels improve when eating carbs.

The very interesting question for prediabetics like me is therefore: Do the glucose levels improve because carb-loading (low GI/GL, vegan, no-fat) increases insulin release? Because if so, then it is kind of likely, in the middle to long term, our beta cells are squeezed out. That would take its toll very soon by dying beta cells and an exacerbating prediabetes (leading to diabetes).

And wishfull thinking would go like this: Insulin secretion is not increased, stays on the same level, but instead our insulin resistence declines. Body cells are getting more responsive to insulin again and glucose is transported into the cells (instead of staying in our blood).

Sounds like a predicament. Good levels now by a possible stressing of beta cells and possibly accelerated die away of beta cells. What would finally lead to a soon manifestation of diabetes.

 

[JTL]

I can't imagine not eating animals.

 

[moveZen]

Oh well, thats really not that of a big deal anymore nowadays. All that soy products make it very comfortable to substitute. Actually I am surprised how easy it is.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

fake bacon just doesn't cut it.

 

[moveZen]

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

aka facon

 

[Lauriem1967]

I’m also trying vegan after LCHF, I’m on day 2 only, so I’m not able to lend too much of my experience yet.

Excercise really help me, and this morning I had steel cut oatmeal, not the flake oatmeal. I feel ok but haven’t taken my BG reading yet.

I fell like I don’t trust eating carbs, lol. But I’d be happier with them.

Could it be that you ate too much oatmeal and fruit for your system? Try a little less and add some greens to your fruit, like salad leaves, to make it feel like more food and add more finer that doesn’t really affect your BG levels.

I had 1 cup chick peas with salad, and 2 tbsp soy yogurt with 1/2 cup frozen berry mix yesterday and my BG 2hrs after was 6.2

I’m T2 since December 2017.

Keep us posted if you continue vegan low fat.
Cheers

 

[bulkbiker]

I’m also trying vegan after LCHF, I’m on day 2 only, so I’m not able to lend too much of my experience yet.

Excercise really help me, and this morning I had steel cut oatmeal, not the flake oatmeal. I feel ok but haven’t taken my BG reading yet.

I fell like I don’t trust eating carbs, lol. But I’d be happier with them.

Could it be that you ate too much oatmeal and fruit for your system? Try a little less and add some greens to your fruit, like salad leaves, to make it feel like more food and add more finer that doesn’t really affect your BG levels.

I had 1 cup chick peas with salad, and 2 tbsp soy yogurt with 1/2 cup frozen berry mix yesterday and my BG 2hrs after was 6.2

I’m T2 since December 2017.

Keep us posted if you continue vegan low fat.
Cheers

Hi Laurie
The original post was almost 3 years ago which was about the time the poster was last here so unlikely you'll get a response.
Just for your info.