Fasting for Autophagy

[ianpspurs]

Personally rather than f**ting around with Lungo's protocol I'd just fast with water/tea/coffee/broth a few times a year.!

@bulkbiker many thanks for replying. I am not sure if autophagy interests me as such but introducing something radically different for short periods does interest me. The idea from Lungo of about 4 times a year seems a direct steal from Christian idea of Ember days so may have some mileage for me if just from that aspect. Would be a bonus if it had other benefits.

 

[bulkbiker]

@bulkbiker many thanks for replying. I am not sure if autophagy interests me as such but introducing something radically different for short periods does interest me. The idea from Lungo of about 4 times a year seems a direct steal from Christian idea of Ember days so may have some mileage for me if just from that aspect. Would be a bonus if it had other benefits.

I always look on it as it won't do you any harm...!

 

[ianpspurs]

I always look on it as it won't do you any harm...!

I don't think I have refined my own best IF timings properly yet and harbour suspicion that it needs tweaking to make it work properly for me. Once that is done I will return to the idea of fasting for longer periods with a little more confidence. Not quite in line with Lungo but I have noted down that up to 50 cals (low carb) counts as not breaking a fast. Did I get that wrong as that may suit my body better?

 

[Goonergal]

Personally rather than f**ting around with Lungo's protocol I'd just fast with water/tea/coffee/broth a few times a year. If you have been low carbing for long enough and intermittent fasting then going without for a few days should be relatively easy. Also doing water only would virtually guarantee autophagy whereas in my view Longo is guessing that his protocol may work because there's currently no way of "knowing" if you are undergoing autophagy. Just my 2p worth (gone all decimal these days)!

Tend to agree. I also find eating small meals tends to make me hungry- not immediately after, but later in the day I’m hungrier than when eating one meal a day. No logic (at least that I understand). The whole subject is really interesting.

 

[Fleegle]

Tend to agree. I also find eating small meals tends to make me hungry- not immediately after, but later in the day I’m hungrier than when eating one meal a day. No logic (at least that I understand). The whole subject is really interesting.

Hi @Goonergal. I am sorry I missed this as I would have liked to have wished you luck - but it looks like you didn't need it. Well done.
But in response to your first question - should I have cream - I wouldn't bother.
I was stunned when I did my 5 day fast how few cups of tea with barely any milk I had in the whole five days. And I have done a couple of shorter fasts with nothing. My next aim, is to do a 5 day, water only fast. Like you - nothing to do with weight or I will be divorced - but to constantly try and reduce any IR I have and improve the comms between the liver and the pancreas.

As I say though - well done!

 

[ianpspurs]

Tend to agree. I also find eating small meals tends to make me hungry- not immediately after, but later in the day I’m hungrier than when eating one meal a day. No logic (at least that I understand). The whole subject is really interesting.

@Goonergal Interestingly, this is all I have eaten today at about 14.30 after 20kms moderate exercise bike.

Feel nice and full. I have had 2 cups of coffee with cream and 3 1.5 pints of tea with home made almond milk. MFP makes that lot about 12 gms carbs. Very high protein so readings tomorrow will be interesting but I reckon I could follow a few days like that especially in the summer.

 

[Goonergal]

@Goonergal Interestingly, this is all I have eaten today at about 14.30 after 20kms moderate exercise bike.

View attachment 25708
Feel nice and full. I have had 2 cups of coffee with cream and 3 1.5 pints of tea with home made almond milk. MFP makes that lot about 12 gms carbs. Very high protein so readings tomorrow will be interesting but I reckon I could follow a few days like that especially in the summer.

I read that as 31.5 pints of tea on first reading!

Yes, I think fasting is easier in the summer, although I only have last summer to go by and that was when I started with this fasting malarkey. Will be interesting to see how I get on this year.

Hi @Goonergal. I am sorry I missed this as I would have liked to have wished you luck - but it looks like you didn't need it. Well done.
But in response to your first question - should I have cream - I wouldn't bother.
I was stunned when I did my 5 day fast how few cups of tea with barely any milk I had in the whole five days. And I have done a couple of shorter fasts with nothing. My next aim, is to do a 5 day, water only fast. Like you - nothing to do with weight or I will be divorced - but to constantly try and reduce any IR I have and improve the comms between the liver and the pancreas.

As I say though - well done!

Thank you!

 

[ianpspurs]

I read that as 31.5 pints of tea on first reading!
Yes, I think fasting is easier in the summer,

Some days I could probably do that much tea. From my point of view summer is easier as cutting lawns can take 8 hrs a week and there are other gardening tasks plus dog walking and exercise. Was also used to eating 1 meal a day 2 days a week from mid April to October in Cricket season.

 

[david1241]

I went on a 24 hour alternate fasting diet.I bought Dr.Jason Fungs book .A Complete Guide to Fasting.for more information on the subject.Of course you don't have to buy his book .He is on Utube.I had been a type 2 diabetic for a long time .It took doctors about 6 years to tell me .Despite having routine 6 monthly blood tests and blood pressure checks.I didn't know i was diabetic for a long time .I started to have minor complications .Which i put down to old age.Evenually the doctor sent for me to tell me i had high blood sugar. she sent me off with a packet of metformin .When the pharmacist said i would have a gippy stomach for 2 weeks after taking them... i decided not to take them i felt fine at the time .Why should i take this rubbish to make myself ill.The doctor was most insistant that i took statins.she got nasty when i refused to take them.Also she refused to take me off The bet-blocker drug Atenolol..I had been taking 100 mg of this drug every day for over 25 years.I read that this drug could increase the chances of the onset of type 2 diabetes by50%.So i weaned myself off them.It did not make the slightest difference to my blood pressure by not taking them.But alas the complications started rolling in thick and fast.I was not taking any diabetic drug I was trying control to my blood sugar by diet and excercise,not very well.In 2016 i devoloped non healing ulcers on my legs below the knee and my legs started swelling with fluid i could put 3 or 4 pounds in a day .I had to get my blood sugar down urgently.I found the answer was to try the 24 hour alternate fasting diet .At the start of the diet.I weighed 13 stone 10 lbs my blood sugar fasting levels were between 10.8 mml to 16 mml + usually around 12.8 mml. 10 months later i now weigh 11 st 4 lbs My b.g.fasting levels are between 3.8 mml and 5.8mml.I bought a Free Style Libre Which although not very accurrate , indicated what foods raised my blood sugar too much .It was a real eye opener.
Anyway my leg ulcers healed up and the swelling in my legs went down.Plus the rest of the long list of the very worrying and frightening complications.If i had have taken the doctors treatment I would propably dead now prior to been in a wheelchair minus my legs and blind .This so called doctor gave me the impression she wanted my diabetes to get worse.I,ve had problems with this malpractice .The trouble is i am over 65 in fact i am 73 years old Soon be dead Lol. I need a replecement left hip but they wouldn't hear of it .Anyway never mind.My arthritis has improved very much since i cured my diabetes. i feel like a new man .A new lease of life i didn't realise how **** i felt before.Try the fasting diet out it doesn't have to be 24 hours it can be more or less.It has certainly work for me to say i am chuffed with result is an understatement.Also the good thing is i can eat what i like without any adverse effects.I still keep an eye on my b.g levels but not every day,.just to check . there is no way i want this terrible metabolic disorder back if i can help it.

 

[Fleegle]

I went on a 24 hour alternate fasting diet.I bought Dr.Jason Fungs book .A Complete Guide to Fasting.for more information on the subject.Of course you don't have to buy his book .He is on Utube.I had been a type 2 diabetic for a long time .It took doctors about 6 years to tell me .Despite having routine 6 monthly blood tests and blood pressure checks.I didn't know i was diabetic for a long time .I started to have minor complications .Which i put down to old age.Evenually they doctor sent for me to tell me i had high blood sugar. she sent me off with a packet of metformin .When the pharmacist said i would have a gippy stomach for 2 weeks after taking them... i decided not to take them i felt fine at the time .Why should i take this rubbish to make myself ill.The doctor was most insistant that i took statins.she got nasty when i refused to take them.Also she refused to take me off The bet-blocker drug Atenolol..I had been taking 100 mg of this drug every day for over 25 years.I read that this drug could increase the chances of onset of type 2 diabetes .So i weaned myself off them.It did not make the slightest difference to my blood pressure by not taking them.But alas the complications rolling in thick and fast.I was not taking any diabetic drug I was trying control my blood sugar by diet and excercise,not very well.In 2016 i devoloped non healing ulcers on my leg below the knee and my legs started swelling with fluid i could put 3 or 4 pounds in a day .I had to get my blood sugar down urgently.I found the answer was to try the 24 hour alternate fasting diet .At the start of the diet.I weighed 13 stone 10 lbs my blood sugar fasting levels were between 10.8 mml to 16 mml + usually around 12.8 mml. 10 months later i now weigh 11 st 4 lbs My b.g.fasting levels are between 3.8 mml and 5.8mml.I bought a Free Style Libre Which although not very accurrate , indicated what foods raised my blood sugar too much .It was a real eye opener.
Anyway my leg ulcers healed up and the swelling in my legs went down.Plus the rest of the long list of the very worrying and frightening complications.If i had have taken the doctors treatment I would propably dead now prior to been in a wheelchair minus my legs and blind .This so called doctor gave me the impression she wanted my diabetes to get worse.I,ve had problems with this malpractice .The trouble is i am over 65 in fact i am 73 years old Soon be dead Lol. I need a replecement left hip but they wouldn't hear of it .Anyway never mind.My arthritis has improved very much since i cured my diabetes. i feel like a new man .A new lease of life i didn't realise how **** i felt before.

What a both disturbing tale and a fantastic ending. Thank you for publishing it so frankly. You read often about the complications but to have had them and then rid yourself of them is inspirational. Well done.

 

[rab5]

I went on a 24 hour alternate fasting diet.I bought Dr.Jason Fungs book .A Complete Guide to Fasting.for more information on the subject.Of course you don't have to buy his book .He is on Utube.I had been a type 2 diabetic for a long time .It took doctors about 6 years to tell me .Despite having routine 6 monthly blood tests and blood pressure checks.I didn't know i was diabetic for a long time .I started to have minor complications .Which i put down to old age.Evenually the doctor sent for me to tell me i had high blood sugar. she sent me off with a packet of metformin .When the pharmacist said i would have a gippy stomach for 2 weeks after taking them... i decided not to take them i felt fine at the time .Why should i take this rubbish to make myself ill.The doctor was most insistant that i took statins.she got nasty when i refused to take them.Also she refused to take me off The bet-blocker drug Atenolol..I had been taking 100 mg of this drug every day for over 25 years.I read that this drug could increase the chances of the onset of type 2 diabetes by50%.So i weaned myself off them.It did not make the slightest difference to my blood pressure by not taking them.But alas the complications started rolling in thick and fast.I was not taking any diabetic drug I was trying control to my blood sugar by diet and excercise,not very well.In 2016 i devoloped non healing ulcers on my legs below the knee and my legs started swelling with fluid i could put 3 or 4 pounds in a day .I had to get my blood sugar down urgently.I found the answer was to try the 24 hour alternate fasting diet .At the start of the diet.I weighed 13 stone 10 lbs my blood sugar fasting levels were between 10.8 mml to 16 mml + usually around 12.8 mml. 10 months later i now weigh 11 st 4 lbs My b.g.fasting levels are between 3.8 mml and 5.8mml.I bought a Free Style Libre Which although not very accurrate , indicated what foods raised my blood sugar too much .It was a real eye opener.
Anyway my leg ulcers healed up and the swelling in my legs went down.Plus the rest of the long list of the very worrying and frightening complications.If i had have taken the doctors treatment I would propably dead now prior to been in a wheelchair minus my legs and blind .This so called doctor gave me the impression she wanted my diabetes to get worse.I,ve had problems with this malpractice .The trouble is i am over 65 in fact i am 73 years old Soon be dead Lol. I need a replecement left hip but they wouldn't hear of it .Anyway never mind.My arthritis has improved very much since i cured my diabetes. i feel like a new man .A new lease of life i didn't realise how **** i felt before.Try the fasting diet out it doesn't have to be 24 hours it can be more or less.It has certainly work for me to say i am chuffed with result is an understatement.Also the good thing is i can eat what i like without any adverse effects.I still keep an eye on my b.g levels but not every day,.just to check . there is no way i want this terrible metabolic disorder back if i can help it.

***** ***** on a crutch.... what a story. You deserve a medal the size of a bin lid!

well done

 

[ianpspurs]

.A new lease of life i didn't realise how **** i felt before.Try the fasting diet out it doesn't have to be 24 hours it can be more or less.It has certainly work for me to say i am chuffed with result is an understatement.Also the good thing is i can eat what i like without any adverse effects.I still keep an eye on my b.g levels but not every day,.just to check . there is no way i want this terrible metabolic disorder back if i can help it.

@david1241 In equal parts uplifting and worrying. What you did for yourself is uplifting but the medical profession do seem to have the impression that once they diagnose diabetes it is a one way street to ruin. Amazing story and good on you. The hips are operable my 88 year old mother in law has had both replacements replaced again over last 3-4 years so pester them all other things with body being ok to cope.

 

[bulkbiker]

@Goonergal

You might find this interesting..I haven't watched it all but he's certainly easier to listen to than Valter Longo.

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/guido-kroemer?t=00h24m35s

Interesting point raised about exercising fasted which a lot of ketoers think is beneficial too.

 

[ianpspurs]

@Goonergal

You might find this interesting..I haven't watched it all but he's certainly easier to listen to than Valter Longo.

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/guido-kroemer?t=00h24m35s

Interesting point raised about exercising fasted which a lot of ketoers think is beneficial too.

Just past 24 hours since last ate, with just tea and coffee - did have cream in coffee. Haven't done exercise apart from carrying 2 20kg bags of chicken feed and 45 min dog walk. Feel OK and fbg ok but nothing special. I will probably give it another go soon and try HITT session just to see how I feel.

Edit: Reached 28 hrs with bs @ 4.4. Could go longer but I reckon would just be for ego. Without mass of blood tests before and after not quite sure what I would learn or benefit but worth a go every so often. Did add an hour dog walk up the only hill in the area.

 

[Goonergal]

@Goonergal

You might find this interesting..I haven't watched it all but he's certainly easier to listen to than Valter Longo.

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/guido-kroemer?t=00h24m35s

Interesting point raised about exercising fasted which a lot of ketoers think is beneficial too.

Thanks. Have dipped in and out - very handy timeline pointing to particular topics. That is interesting about exercising when fasted. Most of my exercise is built around my daily activities (walking instead of taking transport where possible), but my gym visits tend to be early in the morning while fasted, so good to know that may be helping my cause!

It does seem like there are a lot of unknowns, but am interested to keep exploring this.

 

[ianpspurs]

OK, this may not be the right thread but here goes.
Does anyone following this thread have any thoughts or links to anything vaguely scientific about refeeding as relating to low carb keto diets? I did 28+ hours 1 meal under 15 gms carbs 2 days running with more than usual exercise. I followed that up with a day of 3000 cals and 24 gms carbs as a refeeding day - 3% carb, 80% fat, 14% protein. I thought of this having read about something similar before on exercise and nutrition websites.
I am interested in any links to articles or presentations on something similar relating to keto low carb diets and diabetes or anyone who has tried similar.
Thanks in advance for any links or comments.

 

[bulkbiker]

OK, this may not be the right thread but here goes.
Does anyone following this thread have any thoughts or links to anything vaguely scientific about refeeding as relating to low carb keto diets? I did 28+ hours 1 meal under 15 gms carbs 2 days running with more than usual exercise. I followed that up with a day of 3000 cals and 24 gms carbs as a refeeding day - 3% carb, 80% fat, 14% protein. I thought of this having read about something similar before on exercise and nutrition websites.
I am interested in any links to articles or presentations on something similar relating to keto low carb diets and diabetes or anyone who has tried similar.
Thanks in advance for any links or comments.

Don't really understand the question? You are feasting and fasting which is usually thought of as good but are you thinking of carbing up too?

 

[ianpspurs]

Don't really understand the question? You are feasting and fasting which is usually thought of as good but are you thinking of carbing up too?

Sorry. Just the feasting and fasting idea which I have done recently and I understand the practice in general but wondered if there was anything I should know about good or bad effects for low carb/ keto dieters.

 

[bulkbiker]

Sorry. Just the feasting and fasting idea which I have done recently and I understand the practice in general but wondered if there was anything I should know about good or bad effects for low carb/ keto dieters.

Well feasting and fasting is meant to not slow the metabolism unlike daily calorie restriction and it stops the body acclimatising to a specific way of eating (one meal a day for example). On the www.ketogenicforums.com it is probably the way most people who do fasting regularly eat. They will fast for a few days and then feast.

 

[ianpspurs]

Well feasting and fasting is meant to not slow the metabolism unlike daily calorie restriction and it stops the body acclimatising to a specific way of eating (one meal a day for example). On the www.ketogenicforums.com it is probably the way most people who do fasting regularly eat. They will fast for a few days and then feast.

OK thanks seems like I had the right idea so I will follow the link and look for more information to refine my fairly crude effort so far.