There is Hope.

[bulkbiker]

It would certainly be great if we discovered for certain why bariatric surgery gets such good results, if it meant we could follow a plan that didn't require the actual surgery!

I think one theory was that the smaller stomach started releasing different hormones or different amounts of hormones, and someone suspected that the brain played a huge part in controlling BMR based on these hormones. Or probably not, I can't remember.

well if they are in ketosis for 3 weeks before surgery.....

 

[AdamJames]

This is a study of studies on fasting.. there may be something here.. I'm off to bed so can't be a**ed to read it all..sorry.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516560/

Haha! Thanks for that. I also can't be a**ed reading it right now for the same reason. I'll read it tomorrow.

 

[deb1960]

I forgot to say that bariatric surgery seems to be the only weight loss method that doesn't result in horrible reduction of resting metabolism.

I speak as someone who had a gastric band fitted in 2007 and lost about 4 stone..mostly due to the fact that I vomited after every meal. It was never really successful and is rarely done these days. I put all the weight back on and some. My friend had a gastric sleeve a couple of years ago and lost 5 stone which she promptly gained back again. She did this by eating chocolate which obviously doesn't take up too much room in the remaining stomach but is hugely calorific. She is now on the Cambridge diet for about the 5th time. I wasn't huge when I had my surgery and certainly wouldn't have met the bmi criteria to have the surgery on the NHS. I feel that I have a self destruct button in my head which makes me feel almost like I don't really matter, so I might as well eat whatever I like . I have spoken to friends who feel the same. I
I should have said that I used to feel like that because this is the last time I will lose weight. This time I have too much to lose, literally. I have grandsons I want to see grow up and enjoy doing things with them. I am no longer using insulin and my last HbA1c was 38. I will never be 15 stone again.

 

[deb1960]

It would certainly be great if we discovered for certain why bariatric surgery gets such good results, if it meant we could follow a plan that didn't require the actual surgery!

I think one theory was that the smaller stomach started releasing different hormones or different amounts of hormones, and someone suspected that the brain played a huge part in controlling BMR based on these hormones. Or probably not,
Grehlin is no longer produced in patients who have gastric bypass surgery. It is called the hunger hormone.

 

[Shiba Park]

Covering:

Hypertension, Insulin Resistance, Salt, Fructose, Visceral Fat and Beta cell function. It ended too soon for me.

What an interesting and accessible presentation. Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but I think I'm finally beginning to understand what the path to T2 is about, so thanks for posting this.

Forgetting the discussion about whether we need carbs at all, I think the fundament message is if we eat more carbs than we burn and our muscles and liver can store we go into the 'danger zone' for a runaway condition of damage? If so, this is rather sobering given the dietary advice in this country... Equally, it seems trivial to pick up early with a standard blood test profile so begs the question as to why this is not a routine procedure .

Cheers,

 

[deb1960]

Grehlin is no longer released when a patient has a gastric bypass. It is called the hunger hormone.

 

[Mbaker]

I disagree that all weight loss regimes decline metabolism by circa 15%. I believe low calorie, low fat diets do drop metabolism (unless there is an intervention like that of Professor Roy Taylor advice to drop the proportion of food by 25%), but I have not seen anything that says LCHF / Keto does the same. The burning of fatty acids is said to up the metabolism and certainly many who undertake the LCHF / Keto regimes state success stories whilst eating until they are full. In my case I am still full from a dinner at 16.30 and a 5 mile walk and some weights.

 

[AdamJames]

https://idmprogram.com/fix-broken-metabolism/
one of the many..

https://idmprogram.com/difference-calorie-restriction-fasting-fasting-27/
and another

I've read the first link, plus this really nice, concise overview here:

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-metabolism#section2

I absolutely love that site - I've stumbled across it a few times and am always impressed with the way they condense big research results into small sentences, provide references, and have no bias and are not using their articles to sell things. I've started to trust them so much I sometimes don't even bother to click the links to the original research, which is possibly a bad thing!

My takeaway from all of the above is that there are no long-term studies about fasting regarding metabolism, weight loss and weight maintenance, but there are so many short-term studies that show a significant benefit to fasting vs calorie restriction that, for overweight T2s "trying to fix themselves at home," it's got to be the most sensible option based on what we currently know.

Another interesting thing that becomes apparent when reading the above links, while it isn't stated explicitly anywhere, is that nobody is saying that rapid weight loss is a problem. Rather calorie restriction is the problem. Or better still, if you are going to restrict calories with the aim of losing weight, do it cleverly: aim to keep insulin low throughout the process. Low carb is good, keto is better and fasting is best.

If Fung is right that one can 'fix broken metabolism' by increasing BMR through fasting, it could also be argued that the best way to lose weight is the one you can stick to, don't worry about a slowed metabolism, because after you've lost weight, you just need to spend some time fasting to restore your BMR. Personally I prefer the idea of trying to keep it high throughout, however! The more backup plans you have, the better.

Given that the chap in the video in this thread says that 'catching it early' may help with the chances of reversing T2, and other studies from slightly different angles suggest the same, it seems reasonable to try to lose weight pretty **** quick after diagnosis. So the LC in LCHF is the most important bit first, and only after weight loss does the HF in LCHF become important if you need to prevent yourself from disappearing.

well if they are in ketosis for 3 weeks before surgery.....

Yes, based on the above, it seems that if you can stay in ketosis throughout weight loss then you stand a much better chance of keeping your BMR up. And the diet for weeks after the surgery will also be keeping patients in solid ketosis as well, the plan I looked at recently even stipulated that the drinks should be non-sugary.

 

[AdamJames]

I speak as someone who had a gastric band fitted in 2007 and lost about 4 stone..mostly due to the fact that I vomited after every meal. It was never really successful and is rarely done these days. I put all the weight back on and some. My friend had a gastric sleeve a couple of years ago and lost 5 stone which she promptly gained back again. She did this by eating chocolate which obviously doesn't take up too much room in the remaining stomach but is hugely calorific. She is now on the Cambridge diet for about the 5th time. I wasn't huge when I had my surgery and certainly wouldn't have met the bmi criteria to have the surgery on the NHS. I feel that I have a self destruct button in my head which makes me feel almost like I don't really matter, so I might as well eat whatever I like . I have spoken to friends who feel the same. I
I should have said that I used to feel like that because this is the last time I will lose weight. This time I have too much to lose, literally. I have grandsons I want to see grow up and enjoy doing things with them. I am no longer using insulin and my last HbA1c was 38. I will never be 15 stone again.

A lot of people have given you a hug for that, so while I am inclined to also give you a hug, I'll instead give you a 'winner' for the last paragraph!

 

[shelley262]

Covering:

Hypertension, Insulin Resistance, Salt, Fructose, Visceral Fat and Beta cell function. It ended too soon for me.

THank you very much @Guzzler for posting this lecture really enjoyed it and learnt a lot. One of my favourite things on this forum is lectures like this and research papers. I have the additional benefit now that I’m keto of having a clearer brain and so more able to understand this stuff having said this this guy is great at simplifying a complex subject. Thank you much appreciated

 

[Guzzler]

THank you very much @Guzzler for posting this lecture really enjoyed it and learnt a lot. One of my favourite things on this forum is lectures like this and research papers. I have the additional benefit now that I’m keto of having a clearer brain and so more able to understand this stuff having said this this guy is great at simplifying a complex subject. Thank you much appreciated

You're most welcome.

 

[Goonergal]

Thanks so much for posting @Guzzler . Been following this thread but only got time to view the video today. Very interesting viewing. Like you, I could have watched on.

 

[tubamanandy]

@Guzzler - thank you for posting this video.

It's possibly the best investment of 30 mins of my time I've made in recent years.

Really pleased people like you take the time to post it !!!!

THANK YOU

 

[Guzzler]

@Guzzler - thank you for posting this video.

It's possibly the best investment of 30 mins of my time I've made in recent years.

Really pleased people like you take the time to post it !!!!

THANK YOU

You're welcome.