Carbohydrates VS Sugar

daisy1

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@Petaluk

Hello Petaluk and welcome to the Forum :) Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Have a look at the link to the Low Carb Program too. Ask as many questions as you need to and someone will be able to help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:
  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:
  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

  • Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why

  • Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
 
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shelley262

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4,830
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Diet only
Very well done for sustaining eating under 20g carbs daily, for your huge weight loss, and for your fabulous A1c result. You deserved it! I am currently eating under 20g daily too, so I know how hard it is, but I'm afraid my next A1c won't be as low as yours. Good to know there are others out there who are managing to follow the same regime. It seems to me that very often when I read posts or articles about keto, the people are not eating anything like as low as 20g carbs.
Thank you @Alexandra100 it was very difficult initially as brought up on carbs and they were my go to comfort food. What changed my direction the most was a whole month of Intermittent Fasting with one meal a day which was then easy to restrict carbs to under 20g. I now much prefer this way of eating although spread my carbs over 2 to 3 meals a day now. You will get there if you keep going. My next hbaca1 is looming next week so will be interesting to see. My last hbaca1 included a period of time whilst I was still on Metformin I gave up met 6 weeks before my hbaca1 as felt so Poorly with the pills whilst fasting so that may have had an effect. So this one will be six months without Metformin. Mysugr predicting 31 but gather it’s often higher than prediction crossing fingers....
 

Alexandra100

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Prediabetes
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how long, roughly, does it take to get your blood sugars down to normal (under 50?) my reading was 56
A truly normal A1c would be abut 31, but few of us get that low. 42 to 47 is considered pre-diabetic in the UK (following guidelines from the World Health Organisation). However for the American Diabetic Association pre-diabetes starts at 38.8, and for many researchers the concept of pre-diabetes is invalid. Diabetic complications especially the risk of heart disease can start at pre-diabetic levels and even lower. IMO best to get as low as is reasonably possible, but we all have to work out what is possible and acceptable for us as individuals.
 

Alexandra100

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Fasting with one meal a day which was then easy to restrict carbs to under 20g. I now much prefer this way of eating although spread my carbs over 2 to 3 meals a day now. You will get there if you keep going.
Thanks Shelley, I too could easily keep to one meal a day most of the time, but being severely under weight I try to eat regularly. I may or may not get there, as I may be pre-LADA, in which case my results will eventually deteriorate whatever I eat. However I think it is still well worthwhile to eat very low carb in the hope of being in the best possible nick if/when I end up on insulin. Very best wishes for your next A1c test. Even if it is a tiny bit higher than 31 it will still be excellent.


I doubt giving up Metformin 6 weeks before your last test will have had much effect, as people say it is the last few weeks before the test that count the most. But I suppose it may have made a slight difference.
 

Bluetit1802

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Type 2 (in remission!)
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Rather than look at the HbA1c, it is probably more prudent to look at the deviation (which the Mysgr app gives, as do some meters) You can have 2 people with identical HbA1cs, including low ones, but one of them may have almost no deviation but be running a slightly higher base level, whilst the other has a lower base line but roller coaster swings up and down. This is because averages are fallible. I like to see as little deviation from the mean as possible, and no roller coasters, even if it means my baseline is 5's rather than 4s.
 

Alexandra100

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Prediabetes
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I like to see as little deviation from the mean as possible, and no roller coasters, even if it means my baseline is 5's rather than 4s.
That's a choice with which I'd like to be confronted! My struggle is rather to avoid seeing too many high 5s and 6s. I totally agree abut the harmfulness of roller-coaster bg and the limitation of the A1c test in that it can make an up and down bg look OK. (Which is not an argument that any GP I've met so far is likely to countenance. For them, a low A1c means no problem, end of!) I wasn't familiar with the term "deviation" in this context, that's very interesting. I'd like to use Mysugr, but annoyingly, due to gastroparesis my bg has often not risen, or may even have fallen, 2 or even 3 hours after a meal. But maybe over time with consistent low carbing I hope that problem may resolve.
 

Bluetit1802

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@Alexandra100 I think I have said this before, but I really believe you would benefit greatly from splashing out on a Libre starter pack (contains 2 sensors and a reader). There is no need to wear a Libre full time. Just every now and again, like I do. They teach you sooooooooo much, and you do save money on strips, not to mention no sore fingers. It could be a great investment for you.
 

gilllsmaad

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Messages
83
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
Oh no really ...milk did that to you..wow

By the way..do you or anyone else know...how long, roughly, does it take to get your blood sugars down to normal (under 50?) my reading was 56

Also does vaping (non tobacco products) spike bg?

Thanks again x
Hi Petaluk I joined here in February and have been trying to follow the LCHF programme I have lost 14lb and my Hbca1 is down from 48 to 39 so believe me you can do it just dont cut the carbs too quick as i did as it can cause carb flu (i think that is what it is called) there are plenty of people on here who give fantastic advice and will help you along the way. Just remember dont panic as you have found the right place :) . My doctors were not too good on the advice either but I was offered the Desmond diabetic learning which i do this Wednesday. I dont know if its any good but I shall pop along anyway .x
 

PenguinMum

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6,782
Type of diabetes
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Obviously everyone is different but you should be thinking weeks not months. ;)
:bag:
Hi Spoon I hope you were saying that getting from 56 to under 50 should take weeks. I started with a HBA1c of 53 and it took me months to get down pre diabetic not because I wasnt trying hard but there were probably rookie mistakes on my part. I know you qualified “everyone is different” but getting to pre diabetic levels is rarely possible in weeks. Just saying! :cat:
 

Alexandra100

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Messages
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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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@Alexandra100 I think I have said this before, but I really believe you would benefit greatly from splashing out on a Libre starter pack (contains 2 sensors and a reader). There is no need to wear a Libre full time. Just every now and again, like I do. They teach you sooooooooo much, and you do save money on strips, not to mention no sore fingers. It could be a great investment for you.
Thanks, Bluetit, that's very interesting advice. Seeing trends up and down would certainly be very instructive. One thing that holds me back is the fact that I am so very thin at present. No fat whatever to thread the thing through. The other is the horrible prospect of getting on top of the technology. New digital gadgets always give me a hard time.
 

Alexandra100

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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Tablets (oral)
it took me months to get down pre diabetic not because I wasnt trying hard but there were probably rookie mistakes on my part.
Yes, this was my experience too. I began from a fairly high level of carbs (as low carb goes) and gradually reduced. Depressingly, I had to reduce far far more than I expected. I quite often see it written that one can either start high and reduce until one's bg is satisfactory, or start low and gradually add in more carbs until one's bg starts to rise too much. But to start really low one needs a lot of knowledge which I personally did not have, though at least I knew a carb from a calorie! I thought I was eating really low, but then was shocked to discover that eg peanut butter is relatively high carb, and that there are appreciable amounts of carbs in even spinach and celery and courgettes, they all have to be subtracted from one's ration. Many people writing about keto diets assume that one can eat unlimited amounts of the lower carb foods, which makes rather depressing reading for someone really trying to live on 20g carbs a day. So yes, mistakes will most likely be made!
 

Bluetit1802

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25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
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Thanks, Bluetit, that's very interesting advice. Seeing trends up and down would certainly be very instructive. One thing that holds me back is the fact that I am so very thin at present. No fat whatever to thread the thing through. The other is the horrible prospect of getting on top of the technology. New digital gadgets always give me a hard time.

The technology is easy. It couldn't be easier. There are people on here that will help if necessary. I don't think it matters if you are stick thin. The filament that goes under the skin isn't very long.
 

Petaluk

Well-Known Member
Messages
251
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
That must mean you have already been eating pretty low carb, or you would not have lost all that weight. BUT don't be disappointed if your weight loss rate slows right down. Each gram of carbohydrate is stored in your body with 3-4 grams of water, so you can see shedding stored carbs will mean you also lose a lot of fluid, and that won't go on forever.
I also have been doing, most days 30 minutes exercise..walking etc
 
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Petaluk

Well-Known Member
Messages
251
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Yes, this was my experience too. I began from a fairly high level of carbs (as low carb goes) and gradually reduced. Depressingly, I had to reduce far far more than I expected. I quite often see it written that one can either start high and reduce until one's bg is satisfactory, or start low and gradually add in more carbs until one's bg starts to rise too much. But to start really low one needs a lot of knowledge which I personally did not have, though at least I knew a carb from a calorie! I thought I was eating really low, but then was shocked to discover that eg peanut butter is relatively high carb, and that there are appreciable amounts of carbs in even spinach and celery and courgettes, they all have to be subtracted from one's ration. Many people writing about keto diets assume that one can eat unlimited amounts of the lower carb foods, which makes rather depressing reading for someone really trying to live on 20g carbs a day. So yes, mistakes will most likely be made!
I use ketones sticks too (used to do the Atkins diet a lot when I was younger!)
 

There is no Spoon

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717
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I know you qualified “everyone is different” but getting to pre diabetic levels is rarely possible in weeks. Just saying! :cat:
No I did mean weeks.
8 weeks not 8 months thinking of it as weeks highlights how short a time spam we are talking about.
(tanking into account this is not the case for everyone, wish it was)

My first post here was 9 weeks ago this is when I started to exercise and change my diet. And about 2 weeks ago I got my non-diabetic result back from Dr's. I felt "was convinced" of a change about 2-3 weeks before that.

Obviously 8 weeks is 2 months.
And as we all know there are 13 months in a year. 52 / 4 = 13. ;)
:bag:
 

PenguinMum

Expert
Messages
6,782
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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No I did mean weeks.
8 weeks not 8 months thinking of it as weeks highlights how short a time spam we are talking about.
(tanking into account this is not the case for everyone, wish it was)

My first post here was 9 weeks ago this is when I started to exercise and change my diet. And about 2 weeks ago I got my non-diabetic result back from Dr's. I felt "was convinced" of a change about 2-3 weeks before that.

Obviously 8 weeks is 2 months.
And as we all know there are 13 months in a year. 52 / 4 = 13. ;)
:bag:
Fair enough. I need to get a new calender. :cat:
 
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Alexandra100

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3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
The technology is easy. It couldn't be easier. There are people on here that will help if necessary. I don't think it matters if you are stick thin. The filament that goes under the skin isn't very long.
Thanks so much @Bluetit1802, influenced by you I think I may really take the plunge soon. Not quite yet, as I have wall-to-wall medical appointments for the next few weeks, so can't give my full attention to anything else.
 
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