Re: Diagnosed "Borderline" Type 2, and now.. er.. just "Type
Angie, Annie, Primmers, Viv - hello!
Again, thank you to you all for offering your help, advice and sharing your diabetic experiences.
What amazes me the most about diet, (taking into consideration what all of you have said), is that for a "standard" Type 2 diabetic, (of which I know no such beast exists, but
surely there are enough examples of different BS levels/prescribed drugs to be able to say "Treatment X" is the drug/weight loss treatment the average doctor would prescribe?), why are there not a range of standard "Starter Diets" available for consideration/testing by newly diagnosed diabetics?
Seriously, without going to see a dietitian, (which clearly I will never do in my NHS area, given the "non-complexity" of my diabetes and treatment), how am I supposed to understand exactly what I'm supposed to be eating? Okay, I've stated what I am doing eating wise, and when the results are in and the votes counted - it would appear that numerically, (on average), my BS is okay from the HbA1c result - and all other numbers look good. And, as with the "porridge for breakfast" thing, (which was the only big change I made in meals after reading about GI foods), I really have had no other guide about what I should be eating with the exception of a general chat about it at the Desmonds meeting. Anything else I know about has been through reading a myriad of web forums, (one even suggested by my doctor when she told me I wasn't eligible to see a dietitian!?), and being advised to read this book or that book. In short - I am confused.
The Type 1/taking metformin or insulin folks are clearly in the "carb reduction/no or low carb" camp; whilst the Type 2 gang appear to have such a wide ranging opinion on what is the general starting point for a diet, that every Type 2 person on here that has popped up in this thread, (thank you all again
), is either:
1. Low carbing
2. Or aiming for a particular weight of carbs a day (I was thinking of your 20g to 50g a day Viv)
3. Or "doing their own thing" based on self testing.
And just in that point Viv when say that some folks aim for 70g - 100g of carbs a day, it was only when you said that they then would probably need to be low GI that a chink of light shone through.
But...... at the Desmonds group, (and it was what all the other more "experienced diabetic" attendees knew and agreed with), the following was considered to be the average measurements for food portions on a plate:
1. Carbs - a "fist" sized portion
2. Meat - a "palm of your hand" sized portion
3. Fish - a "hand sized portion"
4. Vegetables - a "two cupped hands" sized portions.
Now, I've not seen that mentioned anywhere to me so far. So where does that come from? (Anyone know?)
Angie, I saw your point about rice, pasta and potatoes, and, given my experience of what I've learnt I would probably say that for me, (so far in my short time of learning - ha!), from my understanding of starchy carbohydrates in a meal would be that as long as they were the right sort, for example low GI carbs/brown rice etc, and as long as they were in the right proportion, i.e. a "fist" sized portion, then, as part of a meal with equally proportioned types of protein, vegetables etc, then that meal would be "acceptable".
So, what I've stated above was
my starting point for understanding and structuring what I should be eating throughout the day. Having a few fruits and a few vegetables, (with the evening meal), is also just following the eating healthy practice of having 5 fruits/vegs a day.
I do like your point Angie about it being
my body not the doctor's...lol....
Annie - yes - genetics. One of my uncles was diagnosed Type 1 quite late in life, and my mother tells me I had a second cousin somewhere that was also diabetic. But I think the doctor ruled "genetic diabetes" out for me.
But I have read "your story" Annie with great interest. It does throw a whole new light on the "low carb" argument. Looking at my little leaflet from Diabetes UK "Know Your Labels" it does recommend that the maximum daily intake, (GDA's) for women of Carbohydrates is 230g, and "of which total sugars" is 90g. Of course, you've found out through testing that these levels were too high for you?
And, I guess, looking at what I'm doing with my "makeshift starter diet" I think I may be just hitting the low/medium carb values for men by accident? When I say "By accident" I am also religiously careful about reading labels for carbs/which sugars; fat; salt and sodium content - these have been my other guideline, (as well as the "sensible eating policy" I laid out above), that I use when I go shopping. If they don't meet my guidelines - I don't buy it/eat it!
And Viv, (have no fear - I have the "vanishing text" happen to me before as well!), I saw your recommendation for the "Calorie, Carb & Fat Bible" book. And this brings me to another general question I have. I have a general eating plan consisting of:
1. "Healthy eating" generally - 5 fruit/veg a day
2. Label Reading Guidelines as per Diabetes UK
3. Portion sizes, e.g. "fist" size of carbohydrates.
So, if I go into self testing BS levels I can add:
3. Self testing, and potentially making all kinds of changes to points 1,2, &3.
If I also throw into that:
4. Counting calories
5. Counting carbohydrate intake
Just how complicated can
eating be?? For example - why should I be counting calories and counting total carb intake if I've managed to control my BS through the management of points 1,2, and 3? Or is there something about this I'm just "not getting". Whilst I understand managing ones BS levels can be a tricky business and what's best for one person is not necessarily best for someone else......... it can't be as complicated as this surely? We've put rockets on the moon with less planning, haven't we? :wink:
Overall, I think I am tending towards the "Limited testing" to begin with just to see if my "makeshift starter diet" isn't spiking me. What do y'all think?
Primmers - yes the old "erratic meal times" thing. Thankfully, I've always been a big fan of eating regularly, so I have no problem in maintaining three meals a day. And your diet sounded pretty much like mine was - wholemeal bread etc before diagnosis.
"That certain knowledge" - I like that phrase!
To be honest, you may well said the thing I've been wanting to read and understand, i.e. facts about facts - these are the things we can make conscience decisions with. And then I didn't have a problem losing weight when I started going to the gym on the diet I am on. I guess this is where one thing is good for me and not for you because the progressiveness of our respective diabetes may be different - and we are of course different folks anyway and our build & metabolism will be different?
And, Primmers, you also bring up an interesting psychological point here - are people being made scared about NOT testing? You say:
"I think frequent testing could make some folk feel bad, it depends on what type of person you are and how much responsibility you want to take." And I'd say to that - if diabetes was a religion and self testing was a show of just how much you believed in diabetes - then you'd be the head Spin Doctor for the cult.....lol....
- (That
is just a joke I'm making there by the way). But you do seem to strongly imply that not testing would be a sign of weakness because you couldn't handle the responsibility of the results? It's just a funny way of looking at, I think. For me, all I really want to decide to decide is to whether to self test or not?
Again thank you to Angie, Annie, Primmers & Viv and everyone else who have been helping me to "lift the fog" on this Type 2 diabetes "thing". I am amazed that there is not a more clearly defined route for resources or co-ordination between the agencies, (NHS, Diabetes UK, commercial organisations), to help people understand and tackle this from the word "go". If "learning about diabetes" was a money making company - the banks would have foreclosed on it years ago as a "Loss making concern" because clearly so many people have no real clue about what to do about anything....
p.s. thanks again everyone!
Paul