I am completely confused.

Dexterdobe · May 24, 2018

artdecomum said:
At end of March and again inApril I had fasting bg and HbA1c level done. The 1st HbA1c came back as 46 and the 2nd as 47 and BG of 7.2. The DNS phoned me up and told me I was 'definately type 2 diabetic' and my cholesterol was high. Then I got a letter from my surgery to say that they had put me forward to attend a diabetic education course for pre-diabetics. (Turned it down as this website is far more useful). Today I got a printout of my bloods and I am totally baffled. My serum cholestrol was 4.7 mmo/l, serum HDL 1.68mmol/l, serum cholesterol/HDL ratio 2.8, serum triglycerides 1.4 mmol/l, serum LDL cholesterol level 2.38 mmol/l and non HDL cholesterol level was 3mmol/l. The nurse said i should definately be taking statins due to my high cholesterol yet when i look online the figures don't seem too high. she also warned me to stick to a low fat diet as eating fat causes high cholesterol. I don't eat much fat as i have highly indignant gall stones already. I'm going to be living on water at this rate.

What is anyone elses opinions please. What with being told definately diabetic and definately pre-diabetic my mind is boggling and all i really want to do after 7 weeks of very low calorie and very low carb is eat a slice of toast and butter and marmite. Any opinions gratefully received.

I'm sorry if the chain of conflicting replies has left you even more confused. I think that the consensus is that you are in the
grey area Artdecorum. Neither your BG nor your cholesterol is especially high, but your health will nonetheless improve if you follow a sensible low carb diet. I have been on a LC reasonably high fat diet for over six months. My Bg is much lower and equally importantly, other aspects of my health have improved beyond my wildest dreams. My advice is stick with the diet, exercise as much as you can and don't worry. You will be healthier whatever the numbers are. You will be checked regularly and the professionals will soon tell you if you need medical intervention.

Guzzler · May 24, 2018

@Bryce74

Hello. May I ask a couple of questions, purely out of interst, please? Are you a Health Care Professional and have you been diagnosed with Diabetes?

Edited to add.
You are perfectly at liberty to ignore these questions if you so wish.

artdecomum · May 24, 2018

Thank you all so much for your very valuable and considered replies. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort. I am sorry it has lead to an international 'fight'. I managed to get over my craving for toast and marmite and instead had a few almonds. I am feeling more reassured regarding cholesterol and also the HbA1c results. I have religously stuck to 600 to 800 cals and up to 20 gms of carbs since April 1st. I have lost nearly 2 stones in weight since then and will keep this level of carbs and calories until I lose all the weight I need to ( a very large amount). To know that there is this amount of skill and compassion and understanding on this forum is fantastic. Many many sincere thanks to you all.

Brunneria · May 24, 2018

Hi All,

Despite being asked to cease, some posts have been deleted for continued bickering.

Please be aware that continuing the argument further will result in more deletions.

Resurgam · May 24, 2018

artdecomum said:
Thank you all so much for your very valuable and considered replies. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort. I am sorry it has lead to an international 'fight'. I managed to get over my craving for toast and marmite and instead had a few almonds. I am feeling more reassured regarding cholesterol and also the HbA1c results. I have religously stuck to 600 to 800 cals and up to 20 gms of carbs since April 1st. I have lost nearly 2 stones in weight since then and will keep this level of carbs and calories until I lose all the weight I need to ( a very large amount). To know that there is this amount of skill and compassion and understanding on this forum is fantastic. Many many sincere thanks to you all.

I have the sort of metabolism which collapses under too much calorie restriction - I was on a doctor ordered low calorie diet and barely got to the shops in time to buy food one Saturday - back in the days when there were no shops open on Sundays. I was just able to flag down an icecream van to buy a couple of cornets to bring myself round - so I am a bit concerned about how low you are going as you are also doing low fat as well as low carb and low calorie.
If you do start to feel weak and wobbly then you can't exercise or even run up the stairs, which is counter to the aims of health and fitness, bounding around like a spring lamb sort of feeling. Your Hba1c readings are not at all drastic so there is no need to hammer your body to get good readings - my own drop from 91 to 41 in 6 months along with a drop of 40 lb or so - without trying makes me think that just the low carb is enough to sort out diabetes T2 - hopefully for good and ever.

Jenny15 · May 25, 2018

Resurgam said:
I have the sort of metabolism which collapses under too much calorie restriction - I was on a doctor ordered low calorie diet and barely got to the shops in time to buy food one Saturday - back in the days when there were no shops open on Sundays. I was just able to flag down an icecream van to buy a couple of cornets to bring myself round - so I am a bit concerned about how low you are going as you are also doing low fat as well as low carb and low calorie.
If you do start to feel weak and wobbly then you can't exercise or even run up the stairs, which is counter to the aims of health and fitness, bounding around like a spring lamb sort of feeling. Your Hba1c readings are not at all drastic so there is no need to hammer your body to get good readings - my own drop from 91 to 41 in 6 months along with a drop of 40 lb or so - without trying makes me think that just the low carb is enough to sort out diabetes T2 - hopefully for good and ever.

I agree with this post. I have loads of experience on low calorie diets, or low carbing, and rapid weight loss. I now have gallstones that have caused a lot of pain, and I'm waiting for surgery to have my gallbladder removed, which most doctors consider the best treatment (in my case I consider it the only treatment).

Rapid weight loss is known by doctors to increase the chance of getting gallstones, esp. in a person with other risk factors. I had all of them, "the 4 Fs" - fat, female, (over) forty, and flatulent. (I kid you not, these are the traditional risk factors doctors have used for decades).

So I like to let people know, since they might not know, that gallstones is one of the many risks of rapid intentional weight loss. Losing excess weight is vital for control of type 2 diabetes but in my experience, going hard-out has backfired on me several times. I'm now trying to do it slowly.

It can be hard to get enough vitamins, minerals and other "micronutrients" on a very low calorie diet. Not impossible, but I think if I was to try eating 800 calories a day I'd want to get special advice on avoiding deficiencies, which can take weeks or months to put right. I never went below 1,200 calories a day when I was doing it.

Just my two cents worth, if it's helpful.

Jenny15 · May 25, 2018

artdecomum said:
Thank you all so much for your very valuable and considered replies. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort. I am sorry it has lead to an international 'fight'. I managed to get over my craving for toast and marmite and instead had a few almonds. I am feeling more reassured regarding cholesterol and also the HbA1c results. I have religously stuck to 600 to 800 cals and up to 20 gms of carbs since April 1st. I have lost nearly 2 stones in weight since then and will keep this level of carbs and calories until I lose all the weight I need to ( a very large amount). To know that there is this amount of skill and compassion and understanding on this forum is fantastic. Many many sincere thanks to you all.

Great to hear you are feeling good and doing so well. I mentioned the issue of rapid weight loss in my post above this one but I just wanted to add something. When I lost several stone and was then diagnosed with gallstones I was losing at about 1kg a week (just over 2lb), which was great from a weight loss perspective but in hindsight I think it was a bit too fast. This time I plan to lose it no faster than say 1lb a week. Haven't decided... maybe 3lb a month. I know that sounds slow, but I think it may be better for me.

Each to his or her own though, as always.

DCUKMod · May 25, 2018

Jenny15 said:
I agree with this post. I have loads of experience on low calorie diets, or low carbing, and rapid weight loss. I now have gallstones that have caused a lot of pain, and I'm waiting for surgery to have my gallbladder removed, which most doctors consider the best treatment (in my case I consider it the only treatment).

Rapid weight loss is known by doctors to increase the chance of getting gallstones, esp. in a person with other risk factors. I had all of them, "the 4 Fs" - fat, female, (over) forty, and flatulent. (I kid you not, these are the traditional risk factors doctors have used for decades).

So I like to let people know, since they might not know, that gallstones is one of the many risks of rapid intentional weight loss. Losing excess weight is vital for control of type 2 diabetes but in my experience, going hard-out has backfired on me several times. I'm now trying to do it slowly.

It can be hard to get enough vitamins, minerals and other "micronutrients" on a very low calorie diet. Not impossible, but I think if I was to try eating 800 calories a day I'd want to get special advice on avoiding deficiencies, which can take weeks or months to put right. I never went below 1,200 calories a day when I was doing it.

Just my two cents worth, if it's helpful.

If I recall correctly, Professor Taylor found a few of his very early participants developed some gallstone issues. Since then, he recommended adding a small amout of oil each day.

To be clear, I haven't gone back through all the comments and papers to find this comment.

I haven't done a very low calorie diet myself , deliberately, but the essence of the majority of the VLC diets is they are short term. They are not designed as lifestyle choices, so any potential for deficiencies developing should be short term, if at all.

Each to their own. One size doesn't fit all.

Jenny15 · May 25, 2018

DCUKMod said:
If I recall correctly, Professor Taylor found a few of his very early participants developed some gallstone issues. Since then, he recommended adding a small amout of oil each day.

To be clear, I haven't gone back through all the comments and papers to find this comment.

I haven't done a very low calorie diet myself , deliberately, but the essence of the majority of the VLC diets is they are short term. They are not designed as lifestyle choices, so any potential for deficiencies developing should be short term, if at all.

Each to their own. One size doesn't fit all.

It makes sense that having an adequate fat intake via oil would reduce the risk of developing gallstones. I did some reading about the link recently and it seems well established in the medical literature that rapid weight loss is linked to gallstones in people predisposed to them. I didn't know I was until it was too late.

I'm not criticizing VLC diets per se. I'm just pointing out that rapid weight loss might lead to gallstones, so it may be something for people to consider and discuss with their doctor if they're concerned. If I had known about it, I would have tried to lose weight more slowly.

briped · May 25, 2018

bulkbiker said:
In future I'll be making my own with avocado oil.

Whatever you do don't make it with olive oil. I tried that and threw it all in the bin

DCUKMod · May 25, 2018

Jenny15 said:
It makes sense that having an adequate fat intake via oil would reduce the risk of developing gallstones. I did some reading about the link recently and it seems well established in the medical literature that rapid weight loss is linked to gallstones in people predisposed to them. I didn't know I was until it was too late.

I'm not criticizing VLC diets per se. I'm just pointing out that rapid weight loss might lead to gallstones, so it may be something for people to consider and discuss with their doctor if they're concerned. If I had known about it, I would have tried to lose weight more slowly.

My personal logic would say that if VLC with a dollop of olive oil (or whatever) is easier on the gallbladder, I could be easily convinced that the nature and mechanisms of the weightloss in the last couple of decades has a lot to do with the galb;adder issues.

Let's face it, for the last couple of decades, almost anyone looking to lose weight might counbt calories, but they'd certainlyt be focusing on reducing their fat intake. Low fat milk, low fat speads, zero fat yoghurt and cottage cheese, if you get my drift.

To restate, those are my own feelings, and could well end up being twaddle, but there we go.

artdecomum · May 25, 2018

I have had problems with gallstones for 25 years and having other health issues like 2 near fatal pulmonary thromboses(?) my gp has always told me that any operation would probably be fatal. so I just have to suffer with the pain. Having a dollop of any oil would undoubtedly cause me a severe attack. EAting an apple can cause an attack so I have to very careful to limit my intake of fats. Also I am unable to walk or stand for long due to severe arthritis in my knees and hips, exacerbated by my weight. As i am so immobile I HAVE to cut my calories to 800 or below or I don't lose weight. I also have gout brought on by taking 1 of my tablets so I can't eat cauliflower or salmon and other bizarre foods. So I am trying to lose weight and get fit in order to give up the tablets that cause so many side effects. And already having large gallstones I don't think that I need to worry about getting them by 'crash' dieting. My husband has terminal bowel cancer that he has been bravely fighting for nearly 7 years but he is slowly progressing towards the end. I have decided that I don't want to concentrate on my health particularly as the doctor's have said pre diabetic not type 2. I will just keep to low carbing and low calories and what will happen will just have to happen. Many thanks for all your input. It has been most enlightening and encouraging. Wishing you all a healthy and happy long life.

Jenny15 · May 25, 2018

artdecomum said:
I have had problems with gallstones for 25 years and having other health issues like 2 near fatal pulmonary thromboses(?) my gp has always told me that any operation would probably be fatal. so I just have to suffer with the pain. Having a dollop of any oil would undoubtedly cause me a severe attack. EAting an apple can cause an attack so I have to very careful to limit my intake of fats. Also I am unable to walk or stand for long due to severe arthritis in my knees and hips, exacerbated by my weight. As i am so immobile I HAVE to cut my calories to 800 or below or I don't lose weight. I also have gout brought on by taking 1 of my tablets so I can't eat cauliflower or salmon and other bizarre foods. So I am trying to lose weight and get fit in order to give up the tablets that cause so many side effects. And already having large gallstones I don't think that I need to worry about getting them by 'crash' dieting. My husband has terminal bowel cancer that he has been bravely fighting for nearly 7 years but he is slowly progressing towards the end. I have decided that I don't want to concentrate on my health particularly as the doctor's have said pre diabetic not type 2. I will just keep to low carbing and low calories and what will happen will just have to happen. Many thanks for all your input. It has been most enlightening and encouraging. Wishing you all a healthy and happy long life.

Sounds like you are doing extremely well under very tough circumstances, so hats off to you. There are other treatments for gallstones than surgery... I hope you have seen at least one specialist in the last few years about it. Techniques are always improving and GPs arent always aware. Good luck and I wish you and hubby peace.

NicoleC1971 · May 25, 2018

Bluetit1802 said:
I know the difference extremely well, thank you. I am not the one that is confused. By the way, my name is Bluetit. It is not Lady.

Does anyone else here think the distinction between pre diabetic and diabetic is essentially meaningless or even confusing? As in if you are on the spectrum of having abnormal blood glucose levels then whether pre diabetic or diabetic you will need to make changes to your diet.

liarsdance · May 25, 2018

bulkbiker said:
I've stopped both due to the sunflower oil in Delois and the rapeseed oil in Hellmans.
In future I'll be making my own with avocado oil.

Totally agree - homemade mayo is the best - and so easy with a stick blender

JohnEGreen · May 25, 2018

Did you know one egg yolk can bind up to a litre of olive oil was a surprise to me too.

Daphne917 · May 28, 2018

Resurgam said:
I have the sort of metabolism which collapses under too much calorie restriction - I was on a doctor ordered low calorie diet and barely got to the shops in time to buy food one Saturday - back in the days when there were no shops open on Sundays. I was just able to flag down an icecream van to buy a couple of cornets to bring myself round - so I am a bit concerned about how low you are going as you are also doing low fat as well as low carb and low calorie.
If you do start to feel weak and wobbly then you can't exercise or even run up the stairs, which is counter to the aims of health and fitness, bounding around like a spring lamb sort of feeling. Your Hba1c readings are not at all drastic so there is no need to hammer your body to get good readings - my own drop from 91 to 41 in 6 months along with a drop of 40 lb or so - without trying makes me think that just the low carb is enough to sort out diabetes T2 - hopefully for good and ever.

I had similar probs when on a vlc diet - I managed to lose the grand total of 7lbs in 2 months and felt awful. My GP told me to go home and have a good meal as my metabolism had gone into survival mode and my body was, quite literally, shutting down. I was referred to a consultant who said I was one of the few people who could honestly blame their metabolism for their size and inability to lose weight and gave me a, somewhat, stark choice - slim and dead or stay as I was and eat healthily. Needless to say I chose the latter!!

Resurgam · May 28, 2018

I was first put on a calorie controlled diet when I had a 24 inch waist because I was muscular from working as a roadie, sailing, rowing climbing caving and cycling plus walking over mountains, taking the scenic route. I simply weighed more than was right for my height. I just needed to be taller, not lighter.

Jenny15 · May 29, 2018

NicoleC1971 said:
Does anyone else here think the distinction between pre diabetic and diabetic is essentially meaningless or even confusing? As in if you are on the spectrum of having abnormal blood glucose levels then whether pre diabetic or diabetic you will need to make changes to your diet.

You're right in general but the distinction between non-diabetic, pre-diabetic and diabetic is needed for service planning, research, and raising awareness/education/screening.

I am completely confused.

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