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Guzzler

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Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
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And you don’t think the increase in diabetes has anything to do with the fast food/sugary snack world and sedentary lifestyle we live in now and people’s unrealistic health optimism. At the end of the day the Health care teams can only provide advice and guidance they cannot force you to make lifestyle changes a large responsibility lies with the individually to act upon the advice so put a blanket blame on the healthcare teams I feel is unfair

I am not apportioning blame in a blanket fashion. An individual who follows the dietary guidelines given by HCPs for those with a metabolic dysfunction is often met with suspicion when they say that they have stuck rigidly to the EatWell Plate but see rising bg and its attendant complications. Patient blaming does go on.

I agree that as adults we are responsible for our own health and as a parent I had/have a vested interest in diet and overall well being. We are bombarded by the media which portrays those with T2 as greedy and lazy, we are surrounded by foods which are nutrient poor and carb dense, and we are given outdated advice and told to eat less and move more in the CICO model. We are conditioned to think that grains, esp whole grains, are good and that sat fat is bad and this is based on what? The Food Industry's dodgy data and the researchers who are not averse to manipulating findings to fit their pet theories.
 

Resurgam

Expert
Messages
9,849
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I would type out a copy of one of the doctor provided diet sheets I was supposed to follow to reduce my cholesterol - but I took them all out into the back garden and burnt them the day I was diagnosed with diabetes.
Lets just say that it was very carb laden - porridge or shredded wheat for breakfast, wholemeal bread sandwiches with a good thick soup for lunch and lots of rice or potatoes for dinner, skimmed milk, low fat everything and a couple of pieces of fruit - I think a banana and an orange or apple were on the last one. No eggs or cheese, lean cuts of meat but oily fish was OK.
It was three or four times the amount of carbs I eat now - three meals and two snacks as I recall - I reached 264lb on it, because it was essential for my continued good health to go on eating at that rate.
 
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dbr10

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,237
Type of diabetes
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I am not apportioning blame in a blanket fashion. An individual who follows the dietary guidelines given by HCPs for those with a metabolic dysfunction is often met with suspicion when they say that they have stuck rigidly to the EatWell Plate but see rising bg and its attendant complications. Patient blaming does go on.

I agree that as adults we are responsible for our own health and as a parent I had/have a vested interest in diet and overall well being. We are bombarded by the media which portrays those with T2 as greedy and lazy, we are surrounded by foods which are nutrient poor and carb dense, and we are given outdated advice and told to eat less and move more in the CICO model. We are conditioned to think that grains, esp whole grains, are good and that sat fat is bad and this is based on what? The Food Industry's dodgy data and the researchers who are not averse to manipulating findings to fit their pet theories.
And there is a sense in which treatment successes are down to the doctor, while failures are always the fault of the patient.
 

Seeps

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Welcome Matt, and pleased to see you're really taking your diagnosis seriously and self managing with great results. Of course running at 4 and 5, in my experience adds a little anxiety around going below 3.9, but I test regularly and that seems to help.

Good luck with managing your condition so well.
 
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pollensa

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Thanks thats the approach I am taking the lower the better, it is hard work to be organised with meals and exercise but will be worth it in the long run.


A typical day consists off

Brekfast 5AM
Raw Oats Banna frozen fruit, chia seeds and coconut milk mixed up and left over night

Banana ??? not so sure, frozen berries fine, perhaps yogurt natural, chias sunflowr seeds, flax, nuts instead no banana?

Morning snack 9AM
Protein shake +2 x Orange's
If you are able, no snacking between meals, this actually is a way of intermittent fasting

Lunch time 12
2 wholemeal sandwich thins, usually with chicken or tuna and some salad for filling and a portion of grapes
Although well done choosing sandwich thins!! excellent, unfortunately, bread is still carbs, how about considering, say seed crackers look on keto low carb, www.dietdoctor.com recipe or their keto mediterranean low carb flatbreads, yummie and better than bread even though you have chosen well re "thinks".

Afternoon snack is usually 3PM
an Apple and portion of blueberries and sometimes a protein shake depending on hunger/sore muscles
Snacks, possible to cut out??? may prove beneficial, if you cant, to cut out the apple again fructose, or if needed, go for Granny smith less sweet more sour, with nuts instead of blueberries i.e. have only one piece of fruit not

Late afternoon snack 5pm
Banna or cashew nuts depending on BG reading
Banana??? how about celery, some avocado and tomato on seed crackers? couple boiled eggs?

Tea 6-7PM
1 or 2 Chicken breasts or some other meat form and the rest of the plate full of salad or veg
Well done!!!! this is a good low carb style of eating to keep up

Then more fruit late evening if I am feeling hungry
Ooooh! fruit again? if hungry, and if necessary, all depends on individual, how about cutting out the fruit instaead nibble on "any chicken breast " left over from Tea 7pm? or piece of cheese instead of fruit or nibble on seed cracker?

Just some suggestions


Re Fruit it may be you dont spike and your individual situation can tolerate this?? as a general standard rule to try and follow, dont eat fruit if possible, if one does so, to keep levels down and controlled, eat occasionally, small portions, say in palm of hand. I eat odd time, to give example natural yogurt, with nuts chia flax, sunflower, walnuts, with ONE STRAWBERRY, cut into small pieces, yes one strawberry only, I dont spike with fruit but prefer not eat just to ensure I keep levels controlled. Being From Australia, miss my tropical fruits, mango banana, kiwi, paw paw, banana, not easy again everyones situation is different regards tolerance to foods.

Up to you?

Thanks for your help
See within above notes under your plost, just a suggestion box may assist.
Great to see good results as you explain within, especially your A1C lower reversal of numbers. I have just reversed mine down to 5% and now non diabetic range recorded officially on medical records now with my doc in spain, and I achieved this with low carb exercise intermittent fasting, so simple and has given controlled results. I note your typical day, and if I may may make some suggestion box ideas, that may may no assist or try, that may assist getting A1C down further and other areas, keeping in mind what works for one may not not work or another, generally knowledge fruit is fructose best if possible not to eat, i have not eaten also any bread potatoes rice pasta for 1 year, and substitute bread make own from keto low carb www.dietdoctor.com grate caulifour for rice, spiralize zuchinni for pasta and eat pumpkin instead of potatoes, this may not be for everyone, fruit, I have cut out also.
 
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pollensa

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And you don’t think the increase in diabetes has anything to do with the fast food/sugary snack world and sedentary lifestyle we live in now and people’s unrealistic health optimism. At the end of the day the Health care teams can only provide advice and guidance they cannot force you to make lifestyle changes a large responsibility lies with the individually to act upon the advice so put a blanket blame on the healthcare teams I feel is unfair
Good points raised to awareness and totally agree, and yes, I am sure, regards foods what we eat highly contribute to diabetes situation, and yes, your comments regards health teams is well said, those who do provide advice especially lifestyle changes diet first, etc.,once given, its then up to the individual, unfortunately, it seems other side of the coin many docs health care sadly, do not give perhaps appropriate uptodate recommendations, or give guidance as some dont, this should address and change the approach of advice and guidance overall, an example of another situation re guidance given, here in spain doc informed when asked "why in spain is metformin given immediately prior to recommending diet changes lifestyle change, as normal procedure, the reply "well, not everyone is motivated or can be motivated, so why try to persuade them to change diet lifestyle, its easier to give metformin, which results, if individuals dont change their lifestyle, they can continue eating as they normally do", or words to the effect similar, my thinking of this approach, good medical sense approach? For sure, agree with your comments, those health care who inform with good recommendations in best interest of patient, diet along with other, should not be blamed, as ultimately, its up to the individual to use that tool gained knowledged if any given, make their final choice and decision, hopefully they will get motivated and use efforts to change lifestyle.

although guidance generally comes whether good bad or indifferent by the so called experts committees associations professionals, perhaps ultimately, change of diet lifestyle is the main aim for us all, but for a leaf to be taken out of the book of Dr. Jason Fung in his guidance recommendations out there to the diabetes world regards "the way diabetes is treated" which in his opinion has not been treat wrongly over the past many years, and instead as a diet disease as explained, it should be treatment should focus on the "Cause" insulin resistance and not the symptom Sugars? Who knows, but that seems good
medical sense, whatever information we are all provided from every source at the end of the day, the Cause seems to be the root of the disease to be targetted and focused perhaps, after all?

Excellent post and contents you raised, cannot agree more.
 

Prem51

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7,393
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Type 2
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And you don’t think the increase in diabetes has anything to do with the fast food/sugary snack world and sedentary lifestyle we live in now and people’s unrealistic health optimism. At the end of the day the Health care teams can only provide advice and guidance they cannot force you to make lifestyle changes a large responsibility lies with the individually to act upon the advice so put a blanket blame on the healthcare teams I feel is unfair
Hi @MattGreaves and welcome to the forum. Well done on taking action to control your condition and reducing your HbA1c figures. I would agree with others that fruit, especially tropical fruits, are high in sugar and should be avoided. Berries are better though. If you are feeling hungry in the evening hardboiled eggs, avocado, cheese, cold chicken (or any meat), olives or nuts would be better than fruit.

I don't blame my healthcare team for giving advice which is detrimental to T2s. It is what they are told to tell us. My dn tells me I am the surgery's 'star patient' as I have got better when most T2s get worse. I said it was because I didn't follow standard NHS advice, but was following a lchf approach to eating. I thought she would tell me off as she is an older nurse, and I assumed she would be old school in her attitudes. But she said lchf does seem to work and didn't understand why the NHS doesn't recommend it. She thought it was because of the High Fat part.

And yes our fast/processed foods and sedentary lives are also to blame, for some of us anyway, but that is how modern life is.
I blame the big food industry for filling foods with sugars, and the big pharma industry for pushing meds as the only way to deal with the resulting conditions.
There are doctors who are now questioning the nutritional advice given by governments over recent decades which has only increased obesity, and worsening health of people.
 
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Prem51

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I’ve managed to achieve a HBa1c of 37 but I realise I was not just a little high as told, but actually in pre-diabetes! And that I haven’t ‘reversed’ it because it’s still just around the corner
Katie in Holland
Hi @catarinagallo/Katie! It seems diagnosis in Holland is different to UK. Here a HbA1c of 37 would be good. The UK NHS regards an HbA1c of less than 42 as non-diabetic, 42-47 as pre-diabetic, and 48 and above as diabetic.
 
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pollensa

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For the last forty years dieticians, Diabetes Specialist Nurses, GPs and government agencies have been giving advice and setting targets and guidelines. Meanwhile the rates of Type 2 Diabetes and obesity have risen to epidemic levels across the globe. Type 2 Diabetes is described by health care professionals as chronic and progressive even when patients take their advice and act upon it. Spot any mistakes?
Some good valued awareness comments here to share, especially comment re health professions describing diabetes as chronic and progressive, I quote Australian websites some of which same the same, with added, medications will be required for life, my bewilderment and wonderment to the describing of diabetes by professionals, by all means point out its chronic progressive even though such information not only frightens us, or does it leave room or incentive more so, to try to do something about it, if its so chronic and progressive??? why on earth under professional role responsibility, it information also not provided on top, however, with lifestyle changes, diet exercise intermittant fasting, taking charge to make changes in ones life, in order, to address, and do something about it, one can on the positive side, reverse and lower their numbers to control their all or any insulin issues they may have, unfortunately, those positive words on top of the straight negative advices never seem to appear, be shown or expressed, why is my question? This is not acceptable, there is hope for all, and changes can prove to put that hope into positive results for many of us out there, to simply describe the negative of Diabetes a diet disease at the end of the day, and not put positive advices is appalling, but then thats just my personal view overall.

Well said info in your post.
 
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Guzzler

Master
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10,577
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Diet only
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Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
Some good valued awareness comments here to share, especially comment re health professions describing diabetes as chronic and progressive, I quote Australian websites some of which same the same, with added, medications will be required for life, my bewilderment and wonderment to the describing of diabetes by professionals, by all means point out its chronic progressive even though such information not only frightens us, or does it leave room or incentive more so, to try to do something about it, if its so chronic and progressive??? why on earth under professional role responsibility, it information also not provided on top, however, with lifestyle changes, diet exercise intermittant fasting, taking charge to make changes in ones life, in order, to address, and do something about it, one can on the positive side, reverse and lower their numbers to control their all or any insulin issues they may have, unfortunately, those positive words on top of the straight negative advices never seem to appear, be shown or expressed, why is my question? This is not acceptable, there is hope for all, and changes can prove to put that hope into positive results for many of us out there, to simply describe the negative of Diabetes a diet disease at the end of the day, and not put positive advices is appalling, but then thats just my personal view overall.

Well said info in your post.

I give you Dr. David Unwin who says that hope should be prescribed first. I agree with you, there is too much stick and not enough carrot.
 
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pollensa

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Hi my name is Matt, I have read various posts from this forum but this is my first post.

I was diagnosed as type 2 diabetic about 6 months ago now. My first HBA1C test was 94 following the doctors advice and various reading after I understand this to be considerably high and was advised to take metformin 3 times a day. During the first 3 months after being diagnosed I managed to vastly improve my diet and increase my level of exercise during, my next HBA1C test came back as 44, that I was very pleased about and the diabetic nurse was too (I made her day). The following 3 months weren't as great, I struggled to maintain the healthy eating to the level I had achived originally and my next HBA1C result was 46 so still a vast improvement from my first score although a little higher than I would have liked, on the back of the results I have been reduced down to 1 metformin a day this meets my long term plan of wanting to be diet and exercise controlled as I feel this is would be best for me long term rather than being brilliant on medication. Following the last test I have been following a regular healthy diet of fruits vegetables salads and protein and are currently getting exercise 2 to 3 times a day. I test my fasted blood sugar levels first thing in a morning and in the late afetrnoon and constantly are between 4 and 5. I am intrigued on peoples opinion if this is a bad thing being constantly low, at my next visit to the diabetic nurse I am going to ask to see a dietician to help with my queries regarding diet as I find so much conflicting information in books and online. On average I burn anywhere between 4,000-5,000 calories a day (tracked via my fitbit) I feel in the best shape I ever have and have more energy. I am just also conscious am I going too overboard with the exercise and diet?

It certainly has been an interesting 6 months, the initial shock of the diagnosis and the realisation of the choices and impact of the food I previously ate was doing too my body, i am not one to dwell and the what ifs and buts but like to put a positive outlook on things no matter how hard it can be the changes I am making are things that I previously wanted to achieve anyway such as loose weight improve generally fitness, the diagnosis gave me the motivation that this was no longer and optional it was something I needed to do for my health and wellbeing.

Quite the lengthy introduction but I like to speak what is on my mind and thought I would share my story so far.

Thanks
Matt
Matt I have replied to your post, one question please, as this is your first post, may I enquire how does one go about placing a post on the forum, I only give comments regards replies, must be as I am from down under, upside town and I dont get it, how to place a "post" in the first place, any guideance would be welcomed how to do this? thank you in advance.
 

Prem51

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@pollensa, just type your reply into the box below the last post, where it says 'Write your reply ....'
Then click on the green 'Post Reply' button.
You can add a file/picture/image by using the 'Upload a File' button.
You can preview your post using the 'More Options' button.
 

Alexandra100

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Lets just say that it was very carb laden - porridge or shredded wheat for breakfast, wholemeal bread sandwiches with a good thick soup for lunch and lots of rice or potatoes for dinner, skimmed milk, low fat everything and a couple of pieces of fruit - I think a banana and an orange or apple were on the last one. No eggs or cheese, lean cuts of meat but oily fish was OK.
Oh dear! it does sound SO delicious!!!
 
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pollensa

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I give you Dr. David Unwin who says that hope should be prescribed first. I agree with you, there is too much stick and not enough carrot.

How wonderful it would be if the world/industry and more knowledgeable place, resulting hopefuly to prove beneficial for millions out there, if they had more Dr. Unwin, Dr. Jason Fung Canada, Dr. David Cavan approach to diabetes, Dr. Fung and Dr. Cavan to my knowledge both conventional Doctors, as Dr. Cavan voices in his book "he began to question the medical training that focused too much attention on Medications re type 2 diabetes, then 2011 he changed to suggest patients reduce carb intake, many cases worked. Over next year his book stated he started to recommend this as preferred option, this certainly challenged the conventional wisdom that diabetes 2 is a progressive disease over time will likely require long term treatment with insulin."

Such change to challenge the conventional thinking I applaud him, as written in his book, same with Dr Fung who feels its not a chronic progressive disease as made out? openly states on his video the Perfect Treatment for diabetes, see link below, for years indicates treatment has been wrong, instead, treatment to focus on the Cause insulin resistance not the symptom sugars, unfortunately there are not many of these excellent doctors out there, approaching with same viewing, yes more are coming to think the same way, thankfully, the majority??????? so Chronic Progressive?is this 100% correct i.e. if one can lower blood sugars, control insulin levels and both, with diet changes no medications, surely speaks volumes that the conventional viewing as being Chronic progressive to be questioned? is the BIG DOUBT question?

Thank goodness we have doctors as within, who are trying to raise awareness that its time to view approach diabetes in the best interests of all now and for the future.

A self explanatory simple explanation by Dr. Fung video below, clarified any doubts concerns unanswered questions I had out of all the 330 pages of researches I made, from reputable sources may clinic, australian, spanish uk doctors, diabetes associatons worldwide, WHO Genveva and other, which I found two fold both, firstly, informative, welcoming knowledge, yet, secondly shocked and amazed above all else as to what we are told about Diabetes, more importantly, more so, what is not positively informed is beyond belief and wonderment, leaving many areas of doubt lingering, so ultimately, this short video seems from a personal point of view may not be viewed same by others, for myself, puts diabetes 2 in perspective one way or another certainly any doubts I had have have been answered, you may/may not have viewed, its interesting I recommend take a peep if time allows.
 
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pollensa

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@pollensa, just type your reply into the box below the last post, where it says 'Write your reply ....'
Then click on the green 'Post Reply' button.
You can add a file/picture/image by using the 'Upload a File' button.
You can preview your post using the 'More Options' button.
Oh, thank you kindly, truly appreciated, off I go now and bother everyone more than now. Really helpful thanks for your time and thought providing assistance. Have a lovely day from here in Sunny Mallorca.
 
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Guzzler

Master
Messages
10,577
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
How wonderful it would be if the world/industry and more knowledgeable place, resulting hopefuly to prove beneficial for millions out there, if they had more Dr. Unwin, Dr. Jason Fung Canada, Dr. David Cavan approach to diabetes, Dr. Fung and Dr. Cavan to my knowledge both conventional Doctors, as Dr. Cavan voices in his book "he began to question the medical training that focused too much attention on Medications re type 2 diabetes, then 2011 he changed to suggest patients reduce carb intake, many cases worked. Over next year his book stated he started to recommend this as preferred option, this certainly challenged the conventional wisdom that diabetes 2 is a progressive disease over time will likely require long term treatment with insulin."

Such change to challenge the conventional thinking I applaud him, as written in his book, same with Dr Fung who feels its not a chronic progressive disease as made out? openly states on his video the Perfect Treatment for diabetes, see link below, for years indicates treatment has been wrong, instead, treatment to focus on the Cause insulin resistance not the symptom sugars, unfortunately there are not many of these excellent doctors out there, approaching with same viewing, yes more are coming to think the same way, thankfully, the majority??????? so Chronic Progressive?is this 100% correct i.e. if one can lower blood sugars, control insulin levels and both, with diet changes no medications, surely speaks volumes that the conventional viewing as being Chronic progressive to be questioned? is the BIG DOUBT question?

Thank goodness we have doctors as within, who are trying to raise awareness that its time to view approach diabetes in the best interests of all now and for the future.

A self explanatory simple explanation by Dr. Fung video below, clarified any doubts concerns unanswered questions I had out of all the 330 pages of researches I made, from reputable sources may clinic, australian, spanish uk doctors, diabetes associatons worldwide, WHO Genveva and other, which I found two fold both, firstly, informative, welcoming knowledge, yet, secondly shocked and amazed above all else as to what we are told about Diabetes, more importantly, more so, what is not positively informed is beyond belief and wonderment, leaving many areas of doubt lingering, so ultimately, this short video seems from a personal point of view may not be viewed same by others, for myself, puts diabetes 2 in perspective one way or another certainly any doubts I had have have been answered, you may/may not have viewed, its interesting I recommend take a peep if time allows.
Dr. Fung is my go-to guy for the simple explanation (much needed in my case!). I call him the King of the analogy.