Carnivore Diet

[NoCrbs4Me]

For those following a carnivore diet, How do you Inject insulin for the protein? And how much does the high amount of protein affect your BG?
Thanks

I don't inject insulin, but my understanding is that in non-diabetics protein induces an insulin response at about half that induced by carbs. So 50 g of protein would cause the pancreas to produce about the same amount of insulin as 25 g of carbs would.

I don't think I'd say that the amount of protein I eat is high. My diet is high fat rather than high protein.

"Protein has a minimal effect on blood glucose levels with adequate insulin. However, with insulin deficiency, gluconeogenesis proceeds rapidly and contributes to an elevated blood glucose level. With adequate insulin, the blood glucose response in persons with diabetes would be expected to be similar to the blood glucose response in persons without diabetes." From:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9416027

 

[dbr10]

I don't inject insulin, but my understanding is that in non-diabetics protein induces an insulin response at about half that induced by carbs. So 50 g of protein would cause the pancreas to produce about the same amount of insulin as 25 g of carbs would.

I don't think I'd say that the amount of protein I eat is high. My diet is high fat rather than high protein.

"Protein has a minimal effect on blood glucose levels with adequate insulin. However, with insulin deficiency, gluconeogenesis proceeds rapidly and contributes to an elevated blood glucose level. With adequate insulin, the blood glucose response in persons with diabetes would be expected to be similar to the blood glucose response in persons without diabetes." From:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9416027

Last bit is new to me. Thanks.

 

[Terrytiddy]

Hi @darenu when you did LCHF did you find it easy eating on your travels? I follow LCHF and feel great, I find it very easy to have foods that I like and can eat. I have very low carbs I aim for 15 -20% but sometimes have less than 10%. The carbs come from eggs and mainly above ground veg. I don't have bread, pasta, rice, etc and don't have a sweet tooth so no cakes, biscuits etc. I also eat plenty of meat, fish, eggs, cheese, so have a good choice. I think you have to go for what ever suits you. Good luck .

 

[dragongirl]

For travelling around with meat and other perishables, I use this Mobicool bag (Mobicool S32 12 Volt Electric Cool Bag) that plugs into the car and also has an electric plug end for hotel rooms. I have never had a problem in 9 years with this item. And I use it a lot! Hotels don't mind either. It just runs all night and I get my own brekkies and/or snacks out of it. It's worth a try for keeping to our diets.
https://www.mgdonline.co.uk/product...hZy90HalO7niZfyvrZIVrSUvEhCO6nyhoC_SQQAvD_BwE

 

[darenu]

Hi @darenu when you did LCHF did you find it easy eating on your travels? I follow LCHF and feel great, I find it very easy to have foods that I like and can eat. I have very low carbs I aim for 15 -20% but sometimes have less than 10%. The carbs come from eggs and mainly above ground veg. I don't have bread, pasta, rice, etc and don't have a sweet tooth so no cakes, biscuits etc. I also eat plenty of meat, fish, eggs, cheese, so have a good choice. I think you have to go for what ever suits you. Good luck .

Hi Terrytiddy, sorry for the delay in replying.

LCHF was okay when traveling as you can load up at breakfast and go for grills with veg if you get time to stop for a proper lunch. I find the Carnivore diet harder and have to pre-pack food for trips away or I end up not eating and living on coffee.

I’ve sort of modified it lately to very low carb for ease, but I always have hard boiled eggs, spicy sausage and cheese in the car and try to up the veg at evening meal times.

 

[CassieJayneT1]

I don't inject insulin, but my understanding is that in non-diabetics protein induces an insulin response at about half that induced by carbs. So 50 g of protein would cause the pancreas to produce about the same amount of insulin as 25 g of carbs would.

I don't think I'd say that the amount of protein I eat is high. My diet is high fat rather than high protein.

"Protein has a minimal effect on blood glucose levels with adequate insulin. However, with insulin deficiency, gluconeogenesis proceeds rapidly and contributes to an elevated blood glucose level. With adequate insulin, the blood glucose response in persons with diabetes would be expected to be similar to the blood glucose response in persons without diabetes."

Thanks! That's the ratio I've been working to however, my BG spikes a few hours after eating - perhaps a response to the protein? Have you come across people splitting their insulin dose to manage this?
It's a high fat diet, for sure, I guess I meant that it's such an increase in protein for me.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Thanks! That's the ratio I've been working to however, my BG spikes a few hours after eating - perhaps a response to the protein? Have you come across people splitting their insulin dose to manage this?
It's a high fat diet, for sure, I guess I meant that it's such an increase in protein for me.

I wish I had some advice, but I don't. Hopefully someone else can respond to your question.

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks! That's the ratio I've been working to however, my BG spikes a few hours after eating - perhaps a response to the protein? Have you come across people splitting their insulin dose to manage this?
It's a high fat diet, for sure, I guess I meant that it's such an increase in protein for me.

Are you saying that you are spiking later than anticipated? There are a few Type 1's here who report having lower but extended spikes when they up their fat intakes @Mel dCP can you give any insight I know you low carb rather than carnivore but maybe similar..?

 

[LooperCat]

If I eat prawns and white fish, I get a long, slow rise, but not with a fatty fish like salmon or sardines, eggs or plant protein. Handily, the rise and tailoff pretty much matches the profile of Novorapid (for me, at least), so I inject (not always) for the protein content at half the amount I would for carbs. I need to do it even if I’m eating them with loads of fat, it’s a bit odd. Perhaps they are more easy for the body to break down? No idea. We only get around 80% of the benefit of plant protein, btw - it’s not utilised as efficiently as animal protein.

As an example, I had a protein shake for lunch, comprising 26g pea protein - no insulin, BG was 0.9mmol lower 2 hours later.
For dinner I had 150g king prawns with avocado and mayonnaise, 22g protein in total, no insulin (because I was at the bottom of my range when I ate) and two hours later it had risen by 1.1mmol. I have been pretty sedentary all day, and my ratios are the same for both meals.

One of my (not on here) online keto T1 chums has to bolus for any kind of protein, but she is massively insulin resistant on top, with ratios ten times what mine are. She takes more for a couple of boiled eggs than I do in a day!

 

[CassieJayneT1]

I wish I had some advice, but I don't. Hopefully someone else can respond to your question.

Thank you for your reply, and your last response was super helpful!

 

[CassieJayneT1]

Are you saying that you are spiking later than anticipated? There are a few Type 1's here who report having lower but extended spikes when they up their fat intakes @Mel dCP can you give any insight I know you low carb rather than carnivore but maybe similar..?

Yes, that's exactly it! It's definitely not as extreme a spike as a carb-induced one but more than I'm comfortable with. That's useful to know about the increase in fats - thanks! And I'm on day 3 of going carnivore...hoping it will end cravings.

 

[CassieJayneT1]

If I eat prawns and white fish, I get a long, slow rise, but not with a fatty fish like salmon or sardines, eggs or plant protein. Handily, the rise and tailoff pretty much matches the profile of Novorapid (for me, at least), so I inject (not always) for the protein content at half the amount I would for carbs. I need to do it even if I’m eating them with loads of fat, it’s a bit odd. Perhaps they are more easy for the body to break down? No idea. We only get around 80% of the benefit of plant protein, btw - it’s not utilised as efficiently as animal protein.

As an example, I had a protein shake for lunch, comprising 26g pea protein - no insulin, BG was 0.9mmol lower 2 hours later.
For dinner I had 150g king prawns with avocado and mayonnaise, 22g protein in total, no insulin (because I was at the bottom of my range when I ate) and two hours later it had risen by 1.1mmol. I have been pretty sedentary all day, and my ratios are the same for both meals.

One of my (not on here) online keto T1 chums has to bolus for any kind of protein, but she is massively insulin resistant on top, with ratios ten times what mine are. She takes more for a couple of boiled eggs than I do in a day!

Thanks for replying. Perhaps I should change insulin, I'm on Humalog and think that it peaks too quickly. I've been T1 for 20 years but have been coasting/ignoring for so long, I feel like I'm starting from scratch!

I dream of flat BGs like that - one day!

I think I've developed some insulin resistance too - the DAFNE course ruined me!

 

[LooperCat]

Thanks for replying. Perhaps I should change insulin, I'm on Humalog and think that it peaks too quickly. I've been T1 for 20 years but have been coasting/ignoring for so long, I feel like I'm starting from scratch!

I dream of flat BGs like that - one day!

I think I've developed some insulin resistance too - the DAFNE course ruined me!

Some low carb T1s like Actrapid to deal with protein, but I’ve found Novorapid matches it well enough - it’s a bit fast for some people. I know how you feel about starting afresh - I’ve been T1 for 20 years too, and have only really got to grips with it this year. Hate to think what damage I’ve done, but no point dwelling on it, can’t change the past. Only the present and the future!

DAFNE didn’t do me much good either, apart from learning to count the carbs. Unfortunately I ate them all... I’m quite resistant in the mornings - to everything, not just insulin

 

[ringi]

Remember that the older (and hence cheaper for NHS) inslins gives a slower response. And there is nothing stopping someone using a different insulin for carb free meals then they use for corrections.

 

[LooperCat]

Remember that the older (and hence cheaper for NHS) inslins gives a slower response. And there is nothing stopping someone using a different insulin for carb free meals then they use for corrections.

Ideally I’d like Fiasp for corrections, and Novorapid for protein.

 

[CassieJayneT1]

Some low carb T1s like Actrapid to deal with protein, but I’ve found Novorapid matches it well enough - it’s a bit fast for some people. I know how you feel about starting afresh - I’ve been T1 for 20 years too, and have only really got to grips with it this year. Hate to think what damage I’ve done, but no point dwelling on it, can’t change the past. Only the present and the future!

DAFNE didn’t do me much good either, apart from learning to count the carbs. Unfortunately I ate them all... I’m quite resistant in the mornings - to everything, not just insulin

Thanks for the tip - a visit to the Doc is in order! I was on Actrapid once upon a time. Great attitude - same here about only paying attention the last year or so...keto worked for a bit but bloating and cravings have me turning to a carnivore diet.

Yep, counting carbs but eye-balling which, apparently, I wasn't too good at! Hehe...dawn phenomenon?

 

[CassieJayneT1]

Remember that the older (and hence cheaper for NHS) inslins gives a slower response. And there is nothing stopping someone using a different insulin for carb free meals then they use for corrections.

Ooooo, I didn't realise that! And it makes total sense to use different insulins for different effects. Your HbA1c is incredible!