Type 2 Is This The Right Medication?

Rmoliv

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34
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Went to the doctor today to show him the blood test results and as suspected I have diabetes type 2. He prescribed me this medicine called Xigduo (dapagliflozin + metformin). He told me he might put me on insulin but first he wants to see how it goes with this. However I've been thinking and I don't see how this medicine can be helpful in the long term. I mean, yes, it will lower the blood sugar levels by decreasing glucose production by the liver and by increasing glucose excretion through the kidneys BUT since my cells are insulin-resistant and my pancreas is not producing enough insulin doesn't this mean that at the end of the day my cells won't be getting enough glucose as a substrate to produce energy? Doesn't this mean that my cells will still be using fatty acids primarily to get energy and hence ketone bodies will be produced and released into the bloodstream? Isn't that a bad thing? Maybe I'm missing something here. Could anyone please help me out about this, I'm feeling a bit lost here. Thanks.
 
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james11

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Go with what your dr says...no one here is qualified to to give you the medical advice you need
 

DCUKMod

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Went to the doctor today to show him the blood test results and as suspected I have diabetes type 2. He prescribed me this medicine called Xigduo (dapagliflozin + metformin). He told me he might put me on insulin but first he wants to see how it goes with this. However I've been thinking and I don't see how this medicine can be helpful in the long term. I mean, yes, it will lower the blood sugar levels by decreasing glucose production by the liver and by increasing glucose excretion through the kidneys BUT since my cells are insulin-resistant and my pancreas is not producing enough insulin doesn't this mean that at the end of the day my cells won't be getting enough glucose as a substrate to produce energy? Doesn't this mean that my cells will still be using fatty acids primarily to get energy and hence ketone bodies will be produced and released into the bloodstream? Isn't that a bad thing? Maybe I'm missing something here. Could anyone please help me out about this, I'm feeling a bit lost here. Thanks.

Rmoliv - As James has already said, nobody here is qualified to tell you whetherre or not to take or adjust your prescribed medication.

Having received a diagnosis of T2 diabetes, you clearly aren't dealing with your blood glucose as effectively as you did in the past. Whilst I agree most T2s are insulin resistent, far fewer generate a deficit of insulin - indeed quite the opposite.

What happens is our bodies tend to produce lots of insulin, but because of the insulin resistance, our bodies just can't make the best of it, so ourr bodies produce even more insulin. So, for most T2s anything that helps reduce insulin resistance is a good thing. Your Doc has suggested a medication which, as you rightly point out helps with that.

One key point I would just add is that for the vast majority of we T2s, what and how we eat are the two most important aspects of the management of our condition.

I personally found, after diagnosis, that if I modified my diet, and tested my blood sugars (to understand the impacts of what I was eating and drinking), I could manage myself quite well, without any medication.

At the outset, my own GP didn't prescribe any medication for me, but for those who have been prescribed meds, being prescribed medication doesn't necessarrily mean that's a forever, or even a long term position. Loads of folks on here have been able to give theirs meds up, over time.

However, let's be clear, there are some great success stories on the forum, but they have, without exception, taken effort ofrom the person themselves, and not everyone can manage it. Some folks don't actually generate enough natural insulin, but they are in the significant minority. Annoyingly, diabetes is a very personalised conditions, with no silver bullet cure, or panacea.

Good luck with it all.
 

Guzzler

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Hello and welcome to the forum. You can use this site's own search bar and I would suggest you read up on Hyperinsulinaemia. This may make things a little easier to understand.
If you would prefer to listen to some boffins explain the basics of Diabetes you could do worse than to view Dr. Jason Fung, Sarah Hallberg and Gary Fettke et al. They have bitesize presentations as well as full length lectures on Youtube. Good Luck.
 
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Rmoliv

Active Member
Messages
34
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hello and thank you.
Yes the doctor told me it's essential that I change my diet and start exercising like 30min brisk walking per day.
I was trying to understand the pharmacology and biochemistry behind all this. I thought metformin only action was to inhibit gluconeogenesis in the liver but now that I've done some research online I learned that it also increases insulin sensitivity hence glucose uptake by the skeletal muscle cells etc. Now it makes more sense to me.
Thanks for all the tips and advices so far. It's been helpful and comforting.
 
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Robbity

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... BUT since my cells are insulin-resistant and my pancreas is not producing enough insulin doesn't this mean that at the end of the day my cells won't be getting enough glucose as a substrate to produce energy? Doesn't this mean that my cells will still be using fatty acids primarily to get energy and hence ketone bodies will be produced and released into the bloodstream? Isn't that a bad thing? Maybe I'm missing something here. Could anyone please help me out about this, I'm feeling a bit lost here. Thanks.

Regarding ketones, have a read up on the differences between ketosis (https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose/ketosis.html) - which is generally a good thing - and diabetic ketoacidosis (https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-complications/diabetic-ketoacidosis.html) - DKA - which is not.

Robbity
 
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kokhongw

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I reversed my Type 2
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it will lower the blood sugar levels by decreasing glucose production by the liver and by increasing glucose excretion through the kidneys BUT since my cells are insulin-resistant and my pancreas is not producing enough insulin doesn't this mean that at the end of the day my cells won't be getting enough glucose as a substrate to produce energy?

Note that in general, T2D, especially those who are newly diagnosed, are still producing plenty of insulin. BUT due to insulin resistance, we do not produce enough to overcome/handle the amount of carbohydrate taken per meal, even though our pancreas may be releasing 2-3x more than normal. This is an important point that is often lost in the narration of T2D.

So for those who find challenges in making dietary changes, the newer SGLT2 inhibitor helps to excrete the excess glucose/carbs consumed thru the kidney, by inhibiting its glucose reabsorption. This helps keeps the glucose and insulin levels lower.

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kokhongw

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I reversed my Type 2
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Doesn't this mean that my cells will still be using fatty acids primarily to get energy and hence ketone bodies will be produced and released into the bloodstream?

You are absolutely correct that there are some risk of euglycemic diabetic ketoacidosis when taking SGLT2 inhibitors. So it is recommended not to lower carbs too much when on SGLT2 inhibitors.

Risk of Diabetic Ketoacidosis after Initiation of an SGLT2 Inhibitor
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1701990

Euglycemic Diabetic Ketoacidosis: A Predictable, Detectable, and Preventable Safety Concern With SGLT2 Inhibitors
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/38/9/1638
 
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Guzzler

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May I ask a couple of questions, please? You do not have to answer, the choice is yours.
What was the result of your HbA1c? You should have had two blood draws, the second to confirm diagnosis.
Have you been flagged up for follow up tests such as foot/eye screening? Were you given any advice at all about dietary approaches or weight loss management?
 
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Rmoliv

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34
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
May I ask a couple of questions, please? You do not have to answer, the choice is yours.
What was the result of your HbA1c? You should have had two blood draws, the second to confirm diagnosis.
Have you been flagged up for follow up tests such as foot/eye screening? Were you given any advice at all about dietary approaches or weight loss management?

HbA1c (NGSP) - 9.9%
HbA1c (IFCC) - 85 mmol/mol
Yes I am going to have my feet and eyes screened next week and be given more thorough advice about diet and weight loss. I will also see an endocrinologist from time to time according to my doctor.
By the way I had lunch at 12 and my blood sugar was 150 mg/dL at 2pm. Could it be that the medication has already started working? Yesterday I had >250 mg/dL 2h after meals.
 
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bulkbiker

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19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
HbA1c (NGSP) - 9.9%
HbA1c (IFCC) - 85 mmol/mol
Yes I am going to have my feet and eyes screened next week and be given more thorough advice about diet and weight loss. I will also see an endocrinologist from time to time according to my doctor.
By the way I had lunch at 12 and my blood sugar was 150 mg/dL at 2pm. Could it be that the medication has already started working? Yesterday I had >250 mg/dL after meals.
What was lunch?
 

Guzzler

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HbA1c (NGSP) - 9.9%
HbA1c (IFCC) - 85 mmol/mol
Yes I am going to have my feet and eyes screened next week and be given more thorough advice about diet and weight loss. I will also see an endocrinologist from time to time according to my doctor.
By the way I had lunch at 12 and my blood sugar was 150 mg/dL at 2pm. Could it be that the medication has already started working? Yesterday I had >250 mg/dL 2h after meals.

While I cannot comment on your post prandial readings as my conversion skills are inept at best I can tell you I brought down my HbA1c from 98 to 43 in four months after being 'threatened' with drugs/insulin at diagnosis so while your medication will definitely help your blood glucose levels I would say that there is a good chance that you could (with support from your health care professionals) lower your dosage or even be able to discontinue. This all takes time, of course but my point is that the meds may not necessarily be lifelong, there is hope and scope for improvement in your condition. Good luck.
 
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Oldvatr

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Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
You are absolutely correct that there are some risk of euglycemic diabetic ketoacidosis when taking SGLT2 inhibitors. So it is recommended not to lower carbs too much when on SGLT2 inhibitors.

Risk of Diabetic Ketoacidosis after Initiation of an SGLT2 Inhibitor
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1701990

Euglycemic Diabetic Ketoacidosis: A Predictable, Detectable, and Preventable Safety Concern With SGLT2 Inhibitors
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/38/9/1638
Please be aware that the study data showed a relative risk increase, but that actual events were rare or infrequent. Dapagliflozin is generally considered to be self regulating in that it works hard when there is excess glucose, but tapers off as bgl levels drop, In the research I did when I used this med, the DKA effect was thought to be due to dehydration, and most reported events were involving T1D patients who were also using an oral med like this. There is a sticky thread on this forum that describes SGLT-2 med problems, and some users here have also reported hospital admisions.

The main problem that has been reported is that the DKA ketone levels occur at a lower blood glucose level than the usual level expected for DKA diagnosis, and so may be missed by staff in A&E. The usual diagnosis is a bgl >20 mmol/l but SGLT-2 DKA can have levels around the 10 mmol.l which is not normally considered for DKA, but a ketone test should be used (but A&E may not normally do this).

It is a normal thing to have some ketone levels in the blood, and anyone following a low carb diet should be aware of, If it is low bgl due to diet then it is safe and our bodies cope well, but DKA has much higher levels of ketones and this can lead to acidosis which is an unsafe condition. SGLT-2 meds are being associated with these higher levels of ketones under conditions not yet fully understood. Make sure you understand the symptoms of DKA as discussed elesewhere in the forum.
 
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bulkbiker

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Cabbage, small turkey steak (grilled), half an egg and a super tiny potato.
Well that certainly shouldn't cause a huge spike either so maybe a combination of food and meds..

Although I have to ask why the potato?
 

Rmoliv

Active Member
Messages
34
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Well that certainly shouldn't cause a huge spike either so maybe a combination of food and meds..

Although I have to ask why the potato?

No specific reason, maybe a very small treat I guess, half the size of an egg... I like potato but yes it’s unnecessary and high in starch.
 

Oldvatr

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Type 2
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No specific reason, maybe a very small treat I guess, half the size of an egg... I like potato but yes it’s unnecessary and high in starch.
There are two supermarkets here in the UK who have a reputation for adding sugar to things that you would not expect. I had a couple of sausages from one, and they were 'flavoured' and they spiked me quite badly. Another time I found the chicken breasts spiked me more than potato, and again they had injected the pieces with watery gunk that was not declared on the label.

I avoid the breaded or battered things since these too have added flavourings etc. Chicken Dippers come to mind. I find the average fish finger to be fairly lethal, and even faggots can be problematic, but make them myself, and I am fine. They add things like maltose, dextrose, malitol, dextrasol and other sweetners that they do not need to declare as carbs or sugars.
 

Oldvatr

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Which ones?
I knew someone would ask this, and I am not at liberty to divulge. All I will say is look at the shelves, and if most of what they stock is ready made meals or convenience food, and if their home cooked section or home baking aisle is small by comparison, then be suspicious.
 
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