Newcastle diet.

[DCUKMod]

I'm really not trying to be ultra picky but how do they measure it? If they do measure it I'd be quite interested in following it up for myself but if they jut put all your figures into a calculator then...

My electrical impedence scales show me a BMR when I do a full scan.

All I know is that the scales say my BMR is circa 1200 cals, but I need to consume around double that to maintain a steady weight. (160cm tall, 48kg,............ all woman

 

[Fleegle]

Personally I would not trust how they measure metabolic rate.

I dont really want to argue. Your opinion is valid of course. I suspect there is some science in the test but maybe not enough. I also have my own data how many calories do I eat - at what point do I gain and lose weight. And I would say that feels like the same figure. But please do make your own mind up - I am only reporting not endorsing.

 

[Fleegle]

My electrical impedence scales show me a BMR when I do a full scan.

All I know is that the scales say my BMR is circa 1200 cals, but I need to consume around double that to maintain a steady weight. (160cm tall, 48kg,............ all woman

My scales do the same - but this test had about 6 probes stuck on me all on my right hand side (I think it was hard to tell laying down. I know I only removed my right sock and at least two went on that foot.

As a side note - my scales have been pretty static on my rate - if it is a random number, it does well to remember what it is even when I step on the scales as a guest.

 

[DCUKMod]

My scales do the same - but this test had about 6 probes stuck on me all on my right hand side (I think it was hard to tell laying down. I know I only removed my right sock and at least two went on that foot.

As a side note - my scales have been pretty static on my rate - if it is a random number, it does well to remember what it is even when I step on the scales as a guest.

I wasn't suggesting the number displayed is random, as mine is fairly static too. I was more just pointing out that for me, BMR is a bit of a so-what number, as I need quite a bit more to fuel my body, and maintain my weight.

My scales use 8 measuring point - 2 on each foot, and 2 per hand.

 

[Fleegle]

I wasn't suggesting the number displayed is random, as mine is fairly static too. I was more just pointing out that for me, BMR is a bit of a so-what number, as I need quite a bit more to fuel my body, and maintain my weight.

My scales use 8 measuring point - 2 on each foot, and 2 per hand.

I wasn't saying your number wasn't static - just if it is made up number, mine is constant. I have no scientific evidence to make any assumptions of your scales accuracy.
Yes, my scales have loads of points to - but that wasn't the same as the number of points measure on my system which included a few on my chest (my scales do not do that) upper leg, arm hands.

I am off topic now All I was trying to do was to make sure that people didnt confuse the scales you buy with the test I had
And as I say - the tests they did included blood works, lung capacity - body composition - movement and grip tests. It is a 2 hour examination consultation (and at times a little too personal) and I dont know at what point they conclude their data.

Like you - I am much more inclined to believe my calorific intake which is typically in excess of 2500 calories. But that tends to set off a not all calories are the same debate

 

[pavlovsdog]

Hi all and apologies if this has been answered already. I'm planning on starting the Newcastle diet and am aware that its recommended for 8 weeks. Has anyone done it for longer and how safe it it? I would like to try a long stint as I've quite a bit of weight to lose. I've done similar in the past with Lighterlife (pre Newcastle diet!) and that was for 3 months

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi all and apologies if this has been answered already. I'm planning on starting the Newcastle diet and am aware that its recommended for 8 weeks. Has anyone done it for longer and how safe it it? I would like to try a long stint as I've quite a bit of weight to lose. I've done similar in the past with Lighterlife (pre Newcastle diet!) and that was for 3 months

Some people have carried on longer than 8 weeks. The 8 weeks seems to have been a bit of a finger in the air figure, in order to define the initial study.

In terms of safety of the ND, or the extended use of it, it very much depends on you, any other conditions you might have, and very importantly what medications you are on.

Sorry not to be more definitively helpful, but it's a bit like asking if marathon running is safe. It is for some, but certainly not everyone.

You might find you receive more responses if you begin a thread of your own. Some folks will have had their say on this one, and feel they have little or nothing more to add, without realising it may have take a different direction.

 

[pavlovsdog]

Some people have carried on longer than 8 weeks. The 8 weeks seems to have been a bit of a finger in the air figure, in order to define the initial study.

In terms of safety of the ND, or the extended use of it, it very much depends on you, any other conditions you might have, and very importantly what medications you are on.

Sorry not to be more definitively helpful, but it's a bit like asking if marathon running is safe. It is for some, but certainly not everyone.

You might find you receive more responses if you begin a thread of your own. Some folks will have had their say on this one, and feel they have little or nothing more to add, without realising it may have take a different direction.

Hi thanks for the response, just wanted some idea of how rigid the rules were and other folks e perience

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi thanks for the response, just wanted some idea of how rigid the rules were and other folks e perience

I've just noticed your signature, that you're on insulin? If that is the case, then it is extremely likely, should you decide to go down the ND route that your insulin does would need to be adjusted, if not from day one, certainly from early, as you would likely ber experiencing a significant change to your eating/drinking habits.

Do you adjust your insulin doses yourself, or is your regime to try to eat the same sorts of meals regularly? If you are still on a mixed insulin, you might find the ND a bit of a challenge.

Go very carefully.

 

[pavlovsdog]

I've just noticed your signature, that you're on insulin? If that is the case, then it is extremely likely, should you decide to go down the ND route that your insulin does would need to be adjusted, if not from day one, certainly from early, as you would likely ber experiencing a significant change to your eating/drinking habits.

Do you adjust your insulin doses yourself, or is your regime to try to eat the same sorts of meals regularly? If you are still on a mixed insulin, you might find the ND a bit of a challenge.

Go very carefully.

Hi, yes I'm on insulin, I don't mix them myself I have insulin pens and I can titrate doses myself. I have an appointment with the diabetes nuse next week, she says she'll support me so she'll help me with adjusting doses. I note from the research papers that insulin should be halved in the first week. I have invested in the shakes to start with

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi, yes I'm on insulin, I don't mix them myself I have insulin pens and I can titrate doses myself. I have an appointment with the diabetes nuse next week, she says she'll support me so she'll help me with adjusting doses. I note from the research papers that insulin should be halved in the first week. I have invested in the shakes to start with

My use of the term mixed insulin was really to express an insulin with long and fast acting all in one solution, and therefore injection.

Do go very carefully if you do embark on the ND. Your insulin usage really does introduce a risk that needs to be very carefully managed, with plans in place should anything go a bit pear shaped.

 

[pavlovsdog]

My use of the term mixed insulin was really to express an insulin with long and fast acting all in one solution, and therefore injection.

Do go very carefully if you do embark on the ND. Your insulin usage really does introduce a risk that needs to be very carefully managed, with plans in place should anything go a bit pear shaped.

thanks for the heads up, I do have some concerns about it but the only other option is to carry on as normal and increase my insulin doses as my hba1c has gone up . Ill discuss it all at my appointment, although I'm expecting some resistance! GPs seem to be happier doling out medication and referring peeps for bariatric surgery rather than try low carb or Newcastle diet

 

[DCUKMod]

thanks for the heads up, I do have some concerns about it but the only other option is to carry on as normal and increase my insulin doses as my hba1c has gone up . Ill discuss it all at my appointment, although I'm expecting some resistance! GPs seem to be happier doling out medication and referring peeps for bariatric surgery rather than try low carb or Newcastle diet

Pavlosdog - In all honesty, I don't think GPs see many T2s who make sea changes to their diabetes amanagement and health by lifestyle changes. That's certainly the feedback I have been given in some candid discussions with GPs and Consultants.

One comment I will make about T2s is that often we are insulin resistent, meaning by and large our bodies still produce plenty of insulin, but we've lost the ability to use it efficiently. Some find that by adding more insulin, their insulin resistance increase also increases, meaning that some do need more and more insulin, over time, to achieve the same results. Coupled with that, insulin not being utilised to metabolise glucose will act as a fat storage hormone, meaning some gain weight when they start insulin.

Not everyone experiences that picture I have painted, but it is not at all uncommon (although I might be inclined to say it's common). Isulin resistance for T1s is somewhat different as they are adding insulin to a situation where none, or no meaningfully significant levels are generreated by their pancreas.

In some ways, T2s requiring insulin can find themselves wedged between a rock and a similarly placed hard place.

Having the opportunity to try to reduce insulin doses, or even come off it must seem incredibly seductive, so I totally understand the lure of the ND, and I'm now a bit more contented you've got a handle on what's likely to happen if and when you embark on it.

We had a member not so long ago who did the ND whilst on insulin and managed to reduce their doses to a tiny fraction of their prior dosing, but I cannot for the life of me remember the chap's name I'll tag a few Mods and see if they can recall who it was. His thread was a decent read, in your circumstances.

@Brunneria , @Rachox , @Pipp @Juicyj , @Jaylee - I don't suppose any of you guys can recall the T2, using insulin, who relatively recently did the ND and documented both his results and insulin titations as he went along? I think it'd be a good read for pavlovsdog. My memory is as shocking as ever!

 

[pavlovsdog]

Pavlosdog - In all honesty, I don't think GPs see many T2s who make sea changes to their diabetes amanagement and health by lifestyle changes. That's certainly the feedback I have been given in some candid discussions with GPs and Consultants.

One comment I will make about T2s is that often we are insulin resistent, meaning by and large our bodies still produce plenty of insulin, but we've lost the ability to use it efficiently. Some find that by adding more insulin, their insulin resistance increase also increases, meaning that some do need more and more insulin, over time, to achieve the same results. Coupled with that, insulin not being utilised to metabolise glucose will act as a fat storage hormone, meaning some gain weight when they start insulin.

Not everyone experiences that picture I have painted, but it is not at all uncommon (although I might be inclined to say it's common). Isulin resistance for T1s is somewhat different as they are adding insulin to a situation where none, or no meaningfully significant levels are generreated by their pancreas.

In some ways, T2s requiring insulin can find themselves wedged between a rock and a similarly placed hard place.

Having the opportunity to try to reduce insulin doses, or even come off it must seem incredibly seductive, so I totally understand the lure of the ND, and I'm now a bit more contented you've got a handle on what's likely to happen if and when you embark on it.

We had a member not so long ago who did the ND whilst on insulin and managed to reduce their doses to a tiny fraction of their prior dosing, but I cannot for the life of me remember the chap's name I'll tag a few Mods and see if they can recall who it was. His thread was a decent read, in your circumstances.

@Brunneria , @Rachox , @Pipp @Juicyj , @Jaylee - I don't suppose any of you guys can recall the T2, using insulin, who relatively recently did the ND and documented both his results and insulin titations as he went along? I think it'd be a good read for pavlovsdog. My memory is as shocking as ever!

Thanks, I was starting to worry more after reading your posts! I have actually just posted a new thread as you suggested and have also emailed Roy Taylor for more advice. I just wish I had known about the research programme when it started as I lived in Tyneside at the time. I despair at the lack of knowledge and willingness by GPs and diabetes professionals. The only GP I came across who advocated low carb was in Orkney, she said she would have taken me off insulin and work with the dietician to support me, but that was two weeks before my return to England! Sods law

 

[bulkbiker]

In all honesty, I don't think GPs see many T2s who make sea changes to their diabetes amanagement and health by lifestyle changes. That's certainly the feedback I have been given in some candid discussions with GPs and Consultants.

My problem with the GP's in this case would be how many of them actually inform the patient about dietary control rather than just write out a script for the pills. I think they would be in the minority so they seem happy to blame patients for not taking charge when in fact they have never informed the patient of the possibility. This is where I think Dr Unwin has such great success where he gives the patient a choice of diet or pills and reports that the vast majority go for diet as a first option. I realise this may chang in the future with the online training module but no-one in HCP land has ever even mentioned dietary control to me .. I found it all out from you guys and further investigation of my own.

 

[Rachox]

We had a member not so long ago who did the ND whilst on insulin and managed to reduce their doses to a tiny fraction of their prior dosing, but I cannot for the life of me remember the chap's name I'll tag a few Mods and see if they can recall who it was. His thread was a decent read, in your circumstances.
@Brunneria , @Rachox , @Pipp @Juicyj , @Jaylee - I don't suppose any of you guys can recall the T2, using insulin, who relatively recently did the ND and documented both his results and insulin titations as he went along? I think it'd be a good read for pavlovsdog. My memory is as shocking as ever!

Sorry, my memory is shocking too! I’m sorry I can’t recall the name either.

 

[bulkbiker]

Pavlosdog - In all honesty, I don't think GPs see many T2s who make sea changes to their diabetes amanagement and health by lifestyle changes. That's certainly the feedback I have been given in some candid discussions with GPs and Consultants.

One comment I will make about T2s is that often we are insulin resistent, meaning by and large our bodies still produce plenty of insulin, but we've lost the ability to use it efficiently. Some find that by adding more insulin, their insulin resistance increase also increases, meaning that some do need more and more insulin, over time, to achieve the same results. Coupled with that, insulin not being utilised to metabolise glucose will act as a fat storage hormone, meaning some gain weight when they start insulin.

Not everyone experiences that picture I have painted, but it is not at all uncommon (although I might be inclined to say it's common). Isulin resistance for T1s is somewhat different as they are adding insulin to a situation where none, or no meaningfully significant levels are generreated by their pancreas.

In some ways, T2s requiring insulin can find themselves wedged between a rock and a similarly placed hard place.

Having the opportunity to try to reduce insulin doses, or even come off it must seem incredibly seductive, so I totally understand the lure of the ND, and I'm now a bit more contented you've got a handle on what's likely to happen if and when you embark on it.

We had a member not so long ago who did the ND whilst on insulin and managed to reduce their doses to a tiny fraction of their prior dosing, but I cannot for the life of me remember the chap's name I'll tag a few Mods and see if they can recall who it was. His thread was a decent read, in your circumstances.

@Brunneria , @Rachox , @Pipp @Juicyj , @Jaylee - I don't suppose any of you guys can recall the T2, using insulin, who relatively recently did the ND and documented both his results and insulin titations as he went along? I think it'd be a good read for pavlovsdog. My memory is as shocking as ever!

I think it was this thread
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/doing-the-newcastle.130722/#post-1643966
I have posted already on Pavlov's new thread.

 

[pavlovsdog]

My problem with the GP's in this case would be how many of them actually inform the patient about dietary control rather than just write out a script for the pills. I think they would be in the minority so they seem happy to blame patients for not taking charge when in fact they have never informed the patient of the possibility. This is where I think Dr Unwin has such great success where he gives the patient a choice of diet or pills and reports that the vast majority go for diet as a first option. I realise this may chang in the future with the online training module but no-one in HCP land has ever even mentioned dietary control to me .. I found it all out from you guys and further investigation of my own.

same here, I didn't know anything about lchf or ND until I read it on here. When I mentioned lchf to my practice nurse at the time she was very scathing!

 

[DCUKMod]

I think it was this thread
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/doing-the-newcastle.130722/#post-1643966
I have posted already on Pavlov's new thread.

Brilliant, thanks!

 

[Fleegle]

Just wanted to keep the thread updated as a full account over time.
In March I had to go in for significant back surgery and a set of pre-checks which included a full blood check.
HBA1C 33.

So the ND still seems to be working just now for me. I am certainly eating many more carbs more often than I was - but nothing really silly.

I was very pleased with the result as two weeks before that I was laid up with Flu for four days and generally felt unwell for the two weeks leading up to the test.