Blood Glucose Spike - At What Point Is A Post Prandial Bg Rise Unacceptable.

[brassyblonde900]

I made some Keto coleslaw yesterday, I lack discipline when it comes to Sauerkraut or any other kind of 'sour' cabbage, I ended up scoffing all 450grams of the stuff (1lb in old money)….I knew I had majorly cocked up, so it was test test - test
I had tested before eating, it was a new recipe with orange zest infused olive oil and I kept justifying more and more helping of the stuff it was that yummy. I also tested 1, 2, 3hrs after

Pre Prandial - 4.6
Post Prandial Hour 1 - 6.1
Post Prandial Hour 2 - 5.9
Post Prandial Hour 3 - 6

Fasting BG this morning 5.9
My question is at what point is a spike unacceptable. I know the standard advice is no more than 2.
I ask because in real life folks do what is healthiest and works and the standard 'official advice' is not always the best for managing this condition.

 

[xfieldok]

The aim is to have a rise of no more than 2 after 2 hours. You had a rise of 1.3 which looks fine to me.

 

[Guzzler]

I think that this is a personal thing. For instance, I would not be quite so happy to see your 3 hour reading and would be looking to more of a return to base a little sooner. Having said that, when I was testing new foods and learning what I could and could not tolerate I would have been happy with those readings. These days I aim for no more than a 1mmol rise by the 2 hour mark (have to be honest, don't always get it).

 

[Brunneria]

There are a lot of different factors.

- the official guidelines, which I expect you already know about https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html
- the idea that the meal shouldn't rise more than 2mmol/l at 2 hrs (but that is assuming an intake of carbs with the meal which will cause a higher reading at 1 hrs, a dropping at 2, and then a return to normal after that). I have NO IDEA where the 2 Hr Rule comes from. I see it reported everywhere, but don't know if it has any foundation. Also, if you don't eat carbs, and you eat high protein (like me) then maybe your bg is unaffected at 1 hr, starting to rise at 2 hrs and maybe peaks at around 3 hrs. Therefore, in my case, I aim for no more rise than 2 at 3 hrs.
- the idea (courtesy of Jenny Ruhl's research and found on her website bloodsugar101.com) that if blood glucose rises above about 7.8mmol/l then it is harming the body, and in particular the remaining beta cells. This harm is cumulative, so the higher above 7.8 and the longer above 7.8, the more harm being done. As a result, (according to Jenny's research) the more 'spikes' above 7.8 the more we progress our T2.
- there is also the idea of Standard Deviation, where the higher the variation (the difference between lowest and highest numbers) the less controlled, and the more damage is done. For example, a variation of 3 up to 7 may only be 4 mmol/l but it is a rise of more than double. Whereas living the day in between 5 and 6 is only a small variation. Of course exogenous insulin or reactive hypoglycaemia make bigger swings more likely and more difficult to control.

Personally, I take the view that it matters not a jot what my blood glucose level is, so long as it stays under 7.8 and doesn't vary too much. I would honestly be happy with a bg of 7.5 all day every day. Life isn't like that, of course, and I spend most of my time in the 5s, 6s and 7s, and if I stray above then heck, I am human, and I will continue to be fallible in future too.

I have had to give up a lot of foods to achieve these numbers. Other people don't. They lose weight or cut major carbs and their numbers revert to normal. Others need medication to get low numbers. And other people prefer not to restrict their foods and accept higher numbers as a consequence. Horses for courses.

This means that your readings of 4.6 >6.1>back again would have me putting a pound of cabbage on the OK List to have whenever I like. Guilt free and with a side of hog roast.

NB I think you will find that the fibre in the cabbage went a long way to contributing to those readings, since cabbage slows digestion.

Edited to add in the Standard Deviation info.

 

[brassyblonde900]

Thanks guys.
I was quite stunned to see it at 6 at hr 3.
Lesson learnt - Back to my usual tried and tested from now on.
When I go off piste, as I did here, it also has a way of throwing me psychologically.
I want to stay medication free and symptom free and I know its down to me.

 

[Alexandra100]

I lack discipline when it comes to Sauerkraut or any other kind of 'sour' cabbage, I ended up scoffing all 450grams of the stuff

First of all, I personally find that whenever I discover some novel food or way of preparing it, I go somewhat overboard in consuming it. I cut myself some slack, knowing my enthusiasm will wane (and some other food will take on the role of tempter!) Secondly, of course there is no need to assume that sauerkraut is off your menu from now on. Just perhaps not a whole lb of it all at once!!! Dr Bernstein says repeatedly that even eating pebbles or sawdust will raise bg if you eat enough of them. He also recounts a puzzling incident with a patient whose bg rose when she ate lettuce as a snack after swimming. Why? It turned out that she was eating the whole head of lettuce, not just a few leaves.

 

[brassyblonde900]

There are a lot of different factors.

- the official guidelines, which I expect you already know about https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html
- the idea that the meal shouldn't rise more than 2mmol/l at 2 hrs (but that is assuming an intake of carbs with the meal which will cause a higher reading at 1 hrs, a dropping at 2, and then a return to normal after that). I have NO IDEA where the 2 Hr Rule comes from. I see it reported everywhere, but don't know if it has any foundation. Also, if you don't eat carbs, and you eat high protein (like me) then maybe your bg is unaffected at 1 hr, starting to rise at 2 hrs and maybe peaks at around 3 hrs. Therefore, in my case, I aim for no more rise than 2 at 3 hrs.
- the idea (courtesy of Jenny Ruhl's research and found on her website bloodsugar101.com) that if blood glucose rises above about 7.8mmol/l then it is harming the body, and in particular the remaining beta cells. This harm is cumulative, so the higher above 7.8 and the longer above 7.8, the more harm being done. As a result, (according to Jenny's research) the more 'spikes' above 7.8 the more we progress our T2.

Personally, I take the view that it matters not a jot what my blood glucose level is, so long as it stays under 7.8 and doesn't vary too much. I would honestly be happy with a bg of 7.5 all day every day. Life isn't like that, of course, and I spend most of my time in the 5s, 6s and 7s, and if I stray above then heck, I am human, and I will continue to be fallible in future too.

I have had to give up a lot of foods to achieve these numbers. Other people don't. And other people prefer not to restrict their foods and accept higher numbers as a consequence. Horses for courses.

This means that your readings of 4.6 >6.1>back again would have me putting a pound of cabbage on the OK List to have whenever I like. Guilt free and with a side of hog roast.

NB I think you will find that the fibre in the cabbage went a long way to contributing to those readings, since cabbage slows digestion.

I can't stop chuckling. Mehn if I could eat a pound of any kind of fermented or sour cabbage daily, I would gladly give up the last 5% of my natural life span. I love the stuff that much. haha.

 

[Safi]

My rises follow a similar pattern to @Brunneria - I rarely peak at less than 3 hrs as I eat so few carbs. My peaks are low enough & the rises negligible so I'm cool with it.

 

[blanc71]

Looks like good readings to me.
This business can be a total obsession with not being happy if your readings aren't 4.8 etc.I know because as soon as I get a 5.9 or a 6.4 it's doom and gloom.
I need to tell myself it's normal.Good readings though and at least you test.There are T2's who don't bother.