LooperCat
Expert
- Messages
- 5,223
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Other
Do you have any links to some science proving this, please?
Chronic Fatigue And T1 Diabetes
- Thread starter Sophia78
- Start Date
- Messages
- 21,889
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Diet only
Could you please provide links to the research on this?
So that members can understand why you think that every T1 should only shower in cold water?
Even the ones with healthy numbers of white bood cells, enough energy and no depression?
I have to confess that a future of only cold showers would trigger a massive bout of depression in me - and I don’t have T1.
LooperCat
Expert
- Messages
- 5,223
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Other
- Messages
- 21,889
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Diet only
Please do not make sweeping statements and claims that you are unwilling to support with references.
- Messages
- 10,665
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Tablets (oral)
Well I googled, and found this...
https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/are-cold-showers-safe-for-people-with-diabetes-558021/
Not very convincing, though.
https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/are-cold-showers-safe-for-people-with-diabetes-558021/
Not very convincing, though.
Given the current heatwave I'm all for cold showers. Yup, wakes me up but I'd need 4 a day to clear my head! And once British summer reverts to normal temperatures then the dial will go back to warm!
sleepster
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 749
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Pump
I've been having issues with chronic fatigue for many years too, thank you for sharing.
kev-w
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,901
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Insulin
Saves a fortune in electric too
Best showers are red hot then ice cold
Probably not an answer as I don't have chronic fatigue, but I do feel a lot less tired after switching from Lantus to Tresiba as far as it goes.
It’s a mental thing, you’re making yourself uncomfortable, which will build your mental strength needed to undergo uncomfortable or difficult situations or conditions ranging from diabetes to missing the bus. the action of having cold showers over time builds self discipline and with self discipline comes confidence, all of this aside from the fact that cold water makes your immune system stronger. My point in posting this is so people try it, take consistent action and receive the benefits of doing something tough everyday not by proving some science, believe me cold showers can help anyone
- Messages
- 10,665
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Tablets (oral)
I did as you asked, googled it, came up with the articles referenced.
Now you are saying to ignore references and just take cold showers because you say so.
Has anyone welcomed you to the forum yet, @hazedsoundz ? If not, apologies for the omission. I will tag @daisy1 who will post her information for new members here soon.
As a forum moderator, I extend a welcome to you, and also a reminder that anyone signing up is agreeing to abide by Community ethos and forum rules. They can be found here...
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/community-ethos-forum-rules.50278/
Please make yourself aware of the content and post accordingly.
- Messages
- 35
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Insulin
In this current heat wave I have enjoyed turning the heat of my showers down to a cooler temperature that feels pleasant and refreshing though not cold. As for the theory that it is good to feel uncomfortable and suffer, erm...as a person with peripheral neuropathy who has been in constant pain for over 11 years now I don't feel the urge to volunteer to increase any discomfort in my life. Once the heatwave is over my showers will most certainly go back up in temperature!
I did try a cold water hair rinse once in the shower. Turning the heat off after rinsing out oil and conditioner so that the bath was covered in slippery product. On first contact with my scalp I jumped out of my skin then as the cold water ran down my waist length hair slapping my back while I screamed and jolted from the god awful sensation of freezing cold water hitting me after the nice warm shower whilst trying not to break my neck sliding all over the bath on the slippery oil and conditioner...never again!
I did try a cold water hair rinse once in the shower. Turning the heat off after rinsing out oil and conditioner so that the bath was covered in slippery product. On first contact with my scalp I jumped out of my skin then as the cold water ran down my waist length hair slapping my back while I screamed and jolted from the god awful sensation of freezing cold water hitting me after the nice warm shower whilst trying not to break my neck sliding all over the bath on the slippery oil and conditioner...never again!
- Messages
- 18,232
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Insulin
Current UK heatwave for me has increased insulin sensitivity & ive had to back off a unit or two on the basal.
Hot showers as do saunas & hot baths personally have the same effect? I find a hot shower in the morning before work on a winters morn reduces the effect of "Dawn phenomenon." (Liver dump of glycogen.)
But hey! That's just my personal experience..
Hot showers as do saunas & hot baths personally have the same effect? I find a hot shower in the morning before work on a winters morn reduces the effect of "Dawn phenomenon." (Liver dump of glycogen.)
But hey! That's just my personal experience..
LooperCat
Expert
- Messages
- 5,223
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Other
Hmmmm. I have plenty of uncomfortable situations without adding to them, sadly! Got plenty of self discipline (and probably too much confidence) with running my own business... And my immune system is so strong it’s not only eaten my pancreas, but reacts to many of the foods I eat as well. Think I’ll stick to nice hot baths with a good book and a glass of wine
But if it works for you, that’s fantastic - one thing you’ll find here is just how different we all are and what works for each of us.
- Messages
- 8,934
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Other
I've reviewed the details of that study, and there is a minor flaw in the model. 831 outpatients were selected and 350 approached and told of the study. As you whittle down the numbers to 214 you arrive at a situation where 40% of those participating suffer chronic fatigue.
For the control arm, 214 were selected from a database of people interested in participating in research, which in and of its own right biases the type of person that is involved.
Looking at those two sets of participants, you are skewing the T1D arm towards those who are more likely to suffer chronic fatigue, whilst the population from which you are selecting your controls are, by their very nature of being volunteers for clinical trials that have enlisted on a database, likely to be motivated, interested individuals, and therefore less likely to be chronically fatigued.
Overall then, I'm not sure the populations properly represent either the T1D or Control populations correctly, before doing any statistical analysis on the outcomes.
For the control arm, 214 were selected from a database of people interested in participating in research, which in and of its own right biases the type of person that is involved.
Looking at those two sets of participants, you are skewing the T1D arm towards those who are more likely to suffer chronic fatigue, whilst the population from which you are selecting your controls are, by their very nature of being volunteers for clinical trials that have enlisted on a database, likely to be motivated, interested individuals, and therefore less likely to be chronically fatigued.
Overall then, I'm not sure the populations properly represent either the T1D or Control populations correctly, before doing any statistical analysis on the outcomes.
Good to know the cure is cold showers and mental strength. I'll pop the insulin in the bin then.
Apologies for not reading every ones contribution, so if this has already been covered once again sorry, After 1st diagnose (un-diagnosed T1 DKA for 30 days straight) I was always tired and as mentioned it was, by the docs n nurses my high BG, now it's "under control" and I checked my B12, Vit D and iron when I last visited the docs all good they say, and I still have days when I check my BG and its perfect 6-7mmol HOWEVER I still feel a lack of energy, I have now started thinking it could be depression creeping back in, some days good some bad, I never though of chronic fatigue before, so i will have a good read of the other comments and read the OP's article, when I have the ENERGY! - I am glad SOPHIA78 mentioned DKA has anyone done a poll of those with T1 how many have experienced severe DKA i think that is a game changer for T1 - imo
tom58
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 56
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Pump
I've felt a little less spritely recently in these 30+ temperatures but then again maybe it's an age thing... will soon be 80.
kitedoc
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,783
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Pump
- Dislikes
- black jelly beans
Hi @Sophia78, Sorry to hear of your troubles. Thank you for posting this thread about a challenging issue. The following is from my experience as a diabetic since 1966, and is not health professional advice or opinion.
I note that the study you quoted appears quite rigorous in its approach. But given that a number of the TIDs participating had diabetes complications I wonder whether the medication that might have been used for treatment of those complications may have contributed to the fatigue and whether a change in those medications might have alleviated that fatigue.?
Also diabetes is a long term condition, so 5 days worth of BSLs is not going to reflect the longer term control or lack of diabetes control which may be occurring. And who would not be fatigued by filling out a 2 hour questionnaire.?
I am also concerned that the word 'chronically fatigued' is used to indicate fatigue lasting > 6 months. To the reader this could be misinterpreted to mean Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) - which has a more rigorous criteria than the 'chronically fatigued' one as say, on Wikipedia, CFS requires that exhaustive testing has been undertaken to exclude all possible causes. (my words) And exhaustive testing may be limited by cost of some tests, fear by doctors of over-investigating etc.
So many conditions can be linked with fatigue, including depression, which is said to be more common in diabetics - is depression being well enough screened for and diagnosed AND treated in diabetics? When I recently decreased my anti-depressant medication under instruction I became less well, tireder and I admit, BSLS were less well controlled.
A non-diabetic friend of mine with CFS was found to have been abused as a child, and appears to be responding to therapy.
I hope her fatigue improves and it raises the notion of breadth of possible causes of fatigue, in general.
A source of fatigue for me was Obstructive Sleep Apnoea (OSA), diagnosed in 2010. How often is that diagnosis considered in diabetics? and although I am TID, not overweight and thus not typical, there is said to be a high incidence of OSA in T2D. OSA and Type 1 and 2 diabetes: Is there a Link? ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3449487. Treatment of my OSA improved my energy and sleep greatly.
For information about CoQ10 I use drgregemerson.com look up Fact Files-(alphabetical) Fatigue and Co-enzyme Q 10. He talks about causes of fatigue some of which are not traditional medical thinking and about CoEnz Q10 and doses etc. (i have heard him talk but am not related to him in any way).
Having in various ways to manage a long term condition such as one of the types of diabetes (or be 'stuck' in a diagnostic conundrum) involves us in increased vigilance about food, medications, situations, activities etc let alone worries about complications, hypos etc so I agree with many respondents here : why would one not be tired at times.? I am not discounting those who have fatigue out of proportion with expectation, and I hope their symptoms are taken seriously.
Fatigue is an enormous topic and I thank you for raising it and hope you and your health team and any other health advisors find ways to ease, improve, eliminate your fatigue as much as possible.
I note that the study you quoted appears quite rigorous in its approach. But given that a number of the TIDs participating had diabetes complications I wonder whether the medication that might have been used for treatment of those complications may have contributed to the fatigue and whether a change in those medications might have alleviated that fatigue.?
Also diabetes is a long term condition, so 5 days worth of BSLs is not going to reflect the longer term control or lack of diabetes control which may be occurring. And who would not be fatigued by filling out a 2 hour questionnaire.?
I am also concerned that the word 'chronically fatigued' is used to indicate fatigue lasting > 6 months. To the reader this could be misinterpreted to mean Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) - which has a more rigorous criteria than the 'chronically fatigued' one as say, on Wikipedia, CFS requires that exhaustive testing has been undertaken to exclude all possible causes. (my words) And exhaustive testing may be limited by cost of some tests, fear by doctors of over-investigating etc.
So many conditions can be linked with fatigue, including depression, which is said to be more common in diabetics - is depression being well enough screened for and diagnosed AND treated in diabetics? When I recently decreased my anti-depressant medication under instruction I became less well, tireder and I admit, BSLS were less well controlled.
A non-diabetic friend of mine with CFS was found to have been abused as a child, and appears to be responding to therapy.
I hope her fatigue improves and it raises the notion of breadth of possible causes of fatigue, in general.
A source of fatigue for me was Obstructive Sleep Apnoea (OSA), diagnosed in 2010. How often is that diagnosis considered in diabetics? and although I am TID, not overweight and thus not typical, there is said to be a high incidence of OSA in T2D. OSA and Type 1 and 2 diabetes: Is there a Link? ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3449487. Treatment of my OSA improved my energy and sleep greatly.
For information about CoQ10 I use drgregemerson.com look up Fact Files-(alphabetical) Fatigue and Co-enzyme Q 10. He talks about causes of fatigue some of which are not traditional medical thinking and about CoEnz Q10 and doses etc. (i have heard him talk but am not related to him in any way).
Having in various ways to manage a long term condition such as one of the types of diabetes (or be 'stuck' in a diagnostic conundrum) involves us in increased vigilance about food, medications, situations, activities etc let alone worries about complications, hypos etc so I agree with many respondents here : why would one not be tired at times.? I am not discounting those who have fatigue out of proportion with expectation, and I hope their symptoms are taken seriously.
Fatigue is an enormous topic and I thank you for raising it and hope you and your health team and any other health advisors find ways to ease, improve, eliminate your fatigue as much as possible.
