Stop Keto Now - The Mice Have Spoken!

[lucylocket61]

So the maximum vegetable intake in a day is 200g and the minimum 100g.

is that the total weight of the veg?

for example, if I eat 100g of runner beans, I am only consuming 3-4g of carbs.

which is why i asked about your daily intake of carbs and how low carb you aim for. I would have to eat a huge amount of veg to consume even 20g of carbs a day from them.

 

[Alexandra100]

is that the total weight of the veg?

for example, if I eat 100g of runner beans, I am only consuming 3-4g of carbs.

which is why i asked about your daily intake of carbs and how low carb you aim for. I would have to eat a huge amount of veg to consume even 20g of carbs a day from them.

Yes, that is the total raw weight of the vegetables. I suppose I am aiming for 20-30 g carbs daily, but I don't count carb by carb. It is more important to me to keep my bg as low as I can while not losing more weight and consuming at least a minimum of vegetables. I don't only get carbs from vegetables. There are also carbs in cheese, eggs, nuts, double cream, Greek yoghurt, even sardines (though I have more or less written them out of the script since I found that out). In any case, I am being pragmatic. It's no use my telling my bg that lucylocket says I should be able to eat more low carb vegetables, or that I've only had x number of carbs today so it has no right to go and stay up. I eat to my meter, as far as I can given that I live with gastroparesis.

 

[Oldvatr]

Have you a link for Atkins being harmful?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkins_diet
There are others but I am going back to the early days of Atkins, when the internet was not so actively used, and most early posts were not stored for posterity. Nowadays there are techniques to swamp out bad press and adverse comment

This is what Webmd has to say about the ORIGINAL diet (#1)

https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/how-safe-is-atkins-diet#1

The revamped diet reduces the protein and increases the vegetable content, and also is higher fat,

 

[Alexandra100]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkins_diet
There are others but I am going back to the early days of Atkins, when the internet was not so actively used, and most early posts were not stored for posterity. Nowadays there are techniques to swamp out bad press and adverse comment

This is what Webmd has to say about the ORIGINAL diet (#1)

https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/how-safe-is-atkins-diet#1

The revamped diet reduces the protein and increases the vegetable content, and also is higher fat,

Thanks, I shall be most interested to read these when I have a moment.

 

[lindisfel]

oh Yuk - those poor mice being fed that rubbish. Can we get then for cruelty to mice?

I feed them very small pieces of cheddar. They have a short life but die happy!

 

[rab5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkins_diet
There are others but I am going back to the early days of Atkins, when the internet was not so actively used, and most early posts were not stored for posterity. Nowadays there are techniques to swamp out bad press and adverse comment

This is what Webmd has to say about the ORIGINAL diet (#1)

https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/how-safe-is-atkins-diet#1

The revamped diet reduces the protein and increases the vegetable content, and also is higher fat,

Will have a quick look at those.

cheers

 

[Krystyna23040]

I feed them very small pieces of cheddar. They have a short life but die happy!

So pleased that you are looking after them and that their short lives are now so happy. I love cheese also and have just had some organic mature cheddar - will save some for the mice.

 

[zand]

Mice prefer walnuts covered in Belgian chocolate to cheese. I did my own scientific experiment....

 

[lucylocket61]

It's no use my telling my bg that lucylocket says I should be able to eat more low carb vegetables,

there is no need to be so defensive. I have been trying to get more info from you with the purpose of exploring what, if anything, might help, especially as you are so under weight. I will not bother now.

for what its worth, my opinion is that if you have such a low bmi with the way you are dealing with your blood sugars now, it might be good to explore medications so you can eat a healthy amount and still control your blood sugars. But what do I know. I notice your HbA1c is only 40.

 

[Oldvatr]

So pleased that you are looking after them and that their short lives are now so happy. I love cheese also and have just had some organic mature cheddar - will save some for the mice.

My cat Loves mice. She will play with them for hours

 

[Tannith]

are you asking @Brunneria why she has stopped eating veg for now? If not, I dont understand the question as you can low carb and eat lots of veg, as Brunneria has explained just now.

You do not have to eat lots of saturated fat, or lots of any other form of fats. But then, that depends on what you consider to be lots.

you can use keto to lose weight, maintain weight, gain weight- whatever you need it for.it all depends on how much you eat. Likewise with lowering BG.

I am going to page @bulkbiker to give you the short guide to what keto is, as he is my keto guru on here.

No, but earlier I read Bulkbiker say he ate almost no veg, and have also heard him be very dismissive of diets like WFPB which contain a lot of veg. He also eats loads of saturated fat and is a keen advocate of keto. So I assumed the fat and the no/little veg were somehow part of the keto. I am also unsure what keto is for, as lots of TV personalities do it and they can't all be T2. But I never bothered to investigate because the mention of very low veg put me off.

 

[Tannith]

Mice prefer walnuts covered in Belgian chocolate to cheese. I did my own scientific experiment....

And you waste chocolate walnuts on mice!

 

[ickihun]

Hello,

Just come across this article.

https://news.sky.com/story/keto-diets-could-increase-diabetes-risk-11465771

As per usual with this kind of thing it all seems a bit fishy and is based on mice. It does say that diabetics have been shown to benefit from Keto but in doing so contradicts itself.

Basically, Keto could make you Type 2. But if you get Type 2 Keto could help.

Ridiculous! No wonder some people are so disillusioned.

You only make yourself type2 diabetic if you stop the keto. Well to be precise.... Become more insulin resistant..

 

[ickihun]

No, but earlier I read Bulkbiker say he ate almost no veg, and have also heard him be very dismissive of diets like WFPB which contain a lot of veg. He also eats loads of saturated fat and is a keen advocate of keto. So I assumed the fat and the no/little veg were somehow part of the keto. I am also unsure what keto is for, as lots of TV personalities do it and they can't all be T2. But I never bothered to investigate because the mention of very low veg put me off.

How do you know they aren't diabetic?

 

[lucylocket61]

No, but earlier I read Bulkbiker say he ate almost no veg, and have also heard him be very dismissive of diets like WFPB which contain a lot of veg. He also eats loads of saturated fat and is a keen advocate of keto. So I assumed the fat and the no/little veg were somehow part of the keto. I am also unsure what keto is for, as lots of TV personalities do it and they can't all be T2. But I never bothered to investigate because the mention of very low veg put me off.

research and google are wonderful things, as are critical thinking and logic.

 

[bulkbiker]

@bulkbiker
I would like to hear/see your take on it, so please post for us others to see!!

@lucylocket61
Well from my limited experience keto for me would be fewer than 20g of carbs per day as a start.
That seems to be the level that virtually guarantees nutritional ketosis in 99% of people. Once in ketosis (and if wanting to stay there) then carbs could be re-introduced in a staged way to see when ketosis stops.
Or, and the way I do it, is to carry on with fewer than 20g of carbs per day as that seems to be the way my body responds best.
I have never really bothered with the protein or fat macros although I do record them and eat well over the recommended protein amounts daily. This has been especially the case since going 95% carnivore (I still may sometimes have avocado or olives although rarely).
I rarely measure my ketone levels due to the cost but whenever I do I seem to be between 0.5 and 1.5 so comfortably within the range. I try to keep things simple so eat 1 or 2 meals a day usually after 1 pm and before 9 pm so have a nice fasting window too.
I'm happy to answer any further questions but can't think of anything else at the mo.
Hope that helps.
Mark

 

[zand]

No, but earlier I read Bulkbiker say he ate almost no veg, and have also heard him be very dismissive of diets like WFPB which contain a lot of veg. He also eats loads of saturated fat and is a keen advocate of keto. So I assumed the fat and the no/little veg were somehow part of the keto. I am also unsure what keto is for, as lots of TV personalities do it and they can't all be T2. But I never bothered to investigate because the mention of very low veg put me off.

It's all about the amount of carbs. If you want to 'spend' your approx. 20g carb 'allowance' on veg then you can. I have butter on my veg instead of gravy.

I tried WFPB and only lasted a few days. It wasn't for me. I didn't lose weight and my BGs went up. All I can say is if a certain diet doesn't work for me (or stops working when it used to work) then I try something else. I don't dismiss anything until I have tried it and even then I bear in mind that just because it doesn't work for me now, it doesn't mean it won't work at some time in the future.

 

[lucylocket61]

I have just looked up WFPB diet and i couldnt even go there: https://www.forksoverknives.com/whole-food-plant-based-diet/#gs.2zz4O44

I cant eat fruit (sugar spikes)
tubers and starch veg (ditto)
wholegrains( ditto except a couple of slices of wholemeal bread a day)
legums(sugar spikes)

And NO fats at all. Even I, in my very limited knowledge, know humans need some oils/fats in our diet.

From the NHS website:

A small amount of fat is an essential part of a healthy, balanced diet. Fat is a source of essential fatty acids, which the body can't make itself. Fat helps the body absorb vitamins A, D and E. These vitamins are fat-soluble, meaning they can only be absorbed with the help of fats.

it basically a high carb vegan diet. For example, Chick peas are 61% carb. Millet is 73% carbs.
It would finish me off faster than the Eatwell plate would. Perhaps its Ok for non T2's, apart from the potential vitamin deficiency of fat soluble vitamins, but not for me.

I had no idea there were people out there recommending such a dangerous diet for T2's

edited to add: so this diet is not wrong because it contains a lot of veg, but because it contains virtually nothing else, and is very high carb.

 

[zand]

It's also very hard to judge the right amount of plant fat/oil to have in a low fat high carb diet. As @lucylocket61 says we all need some fat, but a little too much and your BGs suffer. It's much easier to do LCHF because you can't go too low on carbs, we don't actually need them in our diet.

 

[Krystyna23040]

I have just looked up WFPB diet and i couldnt even go there: https://www.forksoverknives.com/whole-food-plant-based-diet/#gs.2zz4O44

I cant eat fruit (sugar spikes)
tubers and starch veg (ditto)
wholegrains( ditto except a couple of slices of wholemeal bread a day)
legums(sugar spikes)

And NO fats at all. Even I, in my very limited knowledge, know humans need some oils/fats in our diet.

From the NHS website:

it basically a high carb vegan diet. For example, Chick peas are 61% carb. Millet is 73% carbs.
It would finish me off faster than the Eatwell plate would. Perhaps its Ok for non T2's, apart from the potential vitamin deficiency of fat soluble vitamins, but not for me.

I had no idea there were people out there recommending such a dangerous diet for T2's

edited to add: so this diet is not wrong because it contains a lot of veg, but because it contains virtually nothing else, and is very high carb.

This would also finish me off faster than the Eatwell plate and I would be straight back injecting Novarapid and Lantus in industrial quantities. I use my 20g of carbs on quite a lot of low carb above ground vegetables - it surprised me just how low carb some vegetables are - the bonus for me is that I don't inject insulin anymore.