Low Carb Diets Dangerous

[zand]

"The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself"

And carbs.

 

[zand]

I have been doing keto for 26 days now and I love it! My brain and body are both functioning better than when I was on 50-80g carbs. If it shortens my life a bit (which it won't, the study is wrong) then at least I will get more enjoyment out of the life I have.

Well I would if I wasn't still following Arsenal

 

[Pinkorchid]

is it right that plant based proteins are better for us than animal based proteins?

They said replacing the carbs with more meat was not a good idea and for me personally I do tend to agree with that. I am 79 and suppose I do moderate carb I think that as we get older our digestion changes and does not process certain foods so well and meat can be the most difficult for the digestion system to cope with. I do not eat red meat bacon or sausages any more I find that chicken suits me best but I do love all vegetables so they are the main part of my meals. I do believe as an older person I need the variety of colours in food to get the full compliment of vitamins and minerals rather than take supplements but that is just the way I do it we must all do what we think is best for us personally

 

[lucylocket61]

They said replacing the carbs with more meat was not a good idea and for me personally I do tend to agree with that. I am 79 and suppose I do moderate carb I think that as we get older our digestion changes and does not process certain foods so well and meat can be the most difficult for the digestion system to cope with. I do not eat red meat bacon or sausages any more I find that chicken suits me best but I do love all vegetables so they are the main part of my meals. I do believe as an older person I need the variety of colours in food to get the full compliment of vitamins and minerals rather than take supplements but that is just the way I do it we must all do what we think is best for us personally

where do you get your protein?

 

[achike]

@dbr10 - The conclusion of the study is unambiguous and dealt more with energy replacement on Low Carb:

Low carbohydrate dietary patterns that replaced energy from carbohydrate with energy from animal-derived protein or fat were associated with greater risk.

However, this association was reversed when energy from carbohydrate was replaced with plant-derived protein or fat.

Please understand the research findings and follow their advice. Low Carb is fine but as I kept warning in this Forum - replacement with animal fats and high animal protein is wrong for DT2.

 

[zand]

Low Carb is fine but as I kept warning in this Forum - replacement with animal fats and high animal protein is wrong for DT2.

Really? It's suited me for the past 7+ years. I suppose it depends on what you class as 'high animal protein'.

 

[Guzzler]

@dbr10 - The conclusion of the study is unambiguous and dealt more with energy replacement on Low Carb:

Low carbohydrate dietary patterns that replaced energy from carbohydrate with energy from animal-derived protein or fat were associated with greater risk.

However, this association was reversed when energy from carbohydrate was replaced with plant-derived protein or fat.

Please understand the research findings and follow their advice. Low Carb is fine but as I kept warning in this Forum - replacement with animal fats and high animal protein is wrong for DT2.

I could not disagree more. This 'research' was nothing more than an excercise by biased parties in manipulating poorly gathered data that was cherry picked to within an inch of its life. Incompetence shines out at times and last night this study was akin to ww2 search lights.

 

[Krystyna23040]

@achike I also disagree with what you have posted. So does Dr Malhotra - as was posted on another thread on this forum. Also - have copied this very good link from another thread - which you may be interested in reading as it highlights the truly dreadful shortcomings of the study.
https://cluelessdoctors.com/2018/08/17/when-bad-science-can-harm-you/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Oldvatr]

I could not disagree more. This 'research' was nothing more than an excercise by biased parties in manipulating poorly gathered data that was cherry picked to within an inch of its life. Incompetence shines out at times and last night this study was akin to ww2 search lights.

Looking at the timing of when they sampled the mealplan data (25 years ago) then Low Carb was not a common diet, and indeed it is fairly safe to assume that Atkins 1 was the main kid on the block at that time. The Profesor leading this study is reknowned to be a staunch supporter of the Whole grain variant of vegetarian, and is against animal product in all their forms. This study may well have been prompted by the success of Atkins, and is IMHO an attempt to clobber that diet in particular and push the vegan ideals instead. This is why they say replacing carbs with animal products is bad. Modern LC diets are advocating increasing fat instead, and is not specific to animals.

In addition the timing is around the time of the law suits against Atkins and Fred Pescatore M.D, who were sued for causing death by medical neglect since there were instances of fatalities linked to Atkins 1 which was indeed a high protein low fat low carb diet. It has re-emerged now as a moderate protein high fat low carb diet similar to LCHF as described on this forum elsewhere. This Atkins 2 is IMHO a safer diet to follow and is what is on offer from their website now,

Red meat is not off the hook though, and there have been recent studies that show that the production of preserved and processed meats is possibly causing health issues, It is thought to be the nitrites and nitrile chemicals used to give a long shelf life, or the radiation used to keep the meat looking pink may be to blame.

Meat and dairy are an efficient way of delivering protein and the fat soluble vitamins that are more difficult to get from vegetable sources. But as Atkins 1 showed, it is possible to overdose on protein and suffer kidney damage as a result. But as we had confirmed recently by science study, fat-in does not equal body fat when eaten, so one of the brickbats that the low fat brigade used to hurl at the barricades has been disproven to a large degree. Most people doing LCHF diet would tend to use moderate fat and not binge out.

 

[Guzzler]

Looking at the timing of when they sampled the mealplan data (25 years ago) then Low Carb was not a common diet, and indeed it is fairly safe to assume that Atkins 1 was the main kid on the block at that time. The Profesor leading this study is reknowned to be a staunch supporter of the Whole grain variant of vegetarian, and is against animal product in all their forms. This study may well have been prompted by the success of Atkins, and is IMHO an attempt to clobber that diet in particular and push the vegan ideals instead. This is why they say replacing carbs with animal products is bad. Modern LC diets are advocating increasing fat instead, and is not specific to animals.

In addition the timing is around the time of the law suits against Atkins and Fred Pescatore M.D, who were sued for causing death by medical neglect since there were instances of fatalities linked to Atkins 1 which was indeed a high protein low fat low carb diet. It has re-emerged now as a moderate protein high fat low carb diet similar to LCHF as described on this forum elsewhere. This Atkins 2 is IMHO a safer diet to follow and is what is on offer from their website now,

Red meat is not off the hook though, and there have been recent studies that show that the production of preserved and processed meats is possibly causing health issues, It is thought to be the nitrites and nitrile chemicals used to give a long shelf life, or the radiation used to keep the meat looking pink may be to blame.

Meat and dairy are an efficient way of delivering protein and the fat soluble vitamins that are more difficult to get from vegetable sources. But as Atkins 1 showed, it is possible to overdose on protein and suffer kidney damage as a result. But as we had confirmed recently by science study, fat-in does not equal body fat when eaten, so one of the brickbats that the low fat brigade used to hurl at the barricades has been disproven to a large degree. Most people doing LCHF diet would tend to use moderate fat and not binge out.

Which brings us right back to the question of how much protein (from whatever source) is too much? There is still quite a lot of debate surrounding this. On a personal level, I found that by raising my protein level slightly (animal protein all the way) was a good idea in my case.
If only we had robust studies carried out by researchers with no CoI perhaps we would be better placed to make well informed choices. As it stands we have to 'suck it and see' wrt protein.

If a person or group wish to convince me to change from a plan that so far has benefited me they are going to have to come up with something better than the tosh in this particular study.

 

[lucylocket61]

Low Carb is fine but as I kept warning in this Forum - replacement with animal fats and high animal protein is wrong for DT2.

so what do you suggest the carbs are replaced with?

what is your definition of high animal protein?

where is your evidence that it is wrong for type 2?

 

[Pinkorchid]

where do you get your protein?

By eating a normal amount of protein and if you mean my protein I get it mostly from chicken, eggs, cheese, and I have Quorn and tofu

​

 

[Oldvatr]

@dbr10 - The conclusion of the study is unambiguous and dealt more with energy replacement on Low Carb:

Low carbohydrate dietary patterns that replaced energy from carbohydrate with energy from animal-derived protein or fat were associated with greater risk.

However, this association was reversed when energy from carbohydrate was replaced with plant-derived protein or fat.

Please understand the research findings and follow their advice. Low Carb is fine but as I kept warning in this Forum - replacement with animal fats and high animal protein is wrong for DT2.

I see you have not detected the bias that this study portrays throughout. As has been said in this thread Professor WC Willett who heads up the research dept at the Chan School of Hralth is very heavily biassed in favour of the people who fund the research i,e the grain producers and the walnut industry local to Boston. CHAN supplies the nutrition advice that the ADA use to produce the Eatwell Guide, but Chan have their own version of Eatwell that is mostly vegetarian. This is what Chan says about carbohydrates, and note that it too is associated with Prof Willett's team
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

The study states that the mean total energy intake of the participants was around 1,600 kcal. This seems very low. Makes me suspicious of the accuracy of the food diaries.

 

[Tannith]

There are no prizes for avoiding medication. The majority of T2s control their diabetes and prevent complications by just popping a pill and eating as before. If Metformin gives you tummy problems there are slow release versions, and a range of other anti diabetic drugs you can take. There is no need to risk knocking four years off your lifespan by going low carb. Medication can protect your feet, eyesight etc from damage perfectly well, as it does for the majority.

 

[lucylocket61]

There are no prizes for avoiding medication. The majority of T2s control their diabetes and prevent complications by just popping a pill and eating as before. If Metformin gives you tummy problems there are slow release versions, and a range of other anti diabetic drugs you can take. There is no need to risk knocking four years off your lifespan by going low carb. Medications can protect your feet, eyesight etc from damage perfectly well, as it does for the majority.

ever heard of side effects? do you really want to gradually progress to insulin, along with various complications from the swings and spikes in between being stabilized by an every increasing drug load? and as for this bit:

Medications can protect your feet, eyesight etc from damage perfectly well, as it does for the majority.

have you looked at the figures for complications among those who follow the protocol you suggest?

You want us to ignore a workable, practical and effective low cost way of helping ourselves, with no cost to the NHS , just to add a perceived BUT NOT ACTUAL gain of 4 years of life?

really?

low carbing may not work for all the type 2's all the time forever, but as long as it is working for me, I intend to remain drug free or having the minimum drugs required. I can scarcely believe the need for me to post all this. have you not read the report, and the links about its bias, accuracy and reliability?

I think I have you sussed now.

 

[lucylocket61]

By eating a normal amount of protein and if you mean my protein I get it mostly from chicken, eggs, cheese, and I have Quorn and tofu

​

thanks, so mainly animal based then, like me.

 

[sally and james]

There are no prizes for avoiding medication.

In that case, there should be! You are saving the NHS loads of money and freeing yourself from dependency on the drug industry. What sort of prize would members like?
Sally

 

[Guzzler]

There are no prizes for avoiding medication. The majority of T2s control their diabetes and prevent complications by just popping a pill and eating as before. If Metformin gives you tummy problems there are slow release versions, and a range of other anti diabetic drugs you can take. There is no need to risk knocking four years off your lifespan by going low carb. Medication can protect your feet, eyesight etc from damage perfectly well, as it does for the majority.

Is that why you did a version of ND, so that you could pop pills and progress to insulin? I think you tried to stave off complications and the side effects of drugs by using a diet that suited you and as you have stated many times, ND is working for you.

 

[Krystyna23040]

There are no prizes for avoiding medication. The majority of T2s control their diabetes and prevent complications by just popping a pill and eating as before. If Metformin gives you tummy problems there are slow release versions, and a range of other anti diabetic drugs you can take. There is no need to risk knocking four years off your lifespan by going low carb. Medication can protect your feet, eyesight etc from damage perfectly well, as it does for the majority.

Unfortunately for me I totally and absolutely believed this. I thought I was doing the absolute best I could to manage the T2D successfully but had been given very dangerous and outdated advice from the very people who were supposed to be helping me.

I religiously weighed and measured my starchy carbs and my state of the art Aviva Expert glucose meter worked out my insulin dosage. I was congratulated on managing my T2D so well. However, I was in despair. The BBC Panorama programme didn't help - the heartbreaking footage of people about to have a foot amputated was almost to much to bear.

My right foot had progressed from low risk to medium risk and the numbness was getting worse. The diabetic retinopathy and macular oedema was also getting worse and I was having regular Lucentis injections straight into my eyes. Each of these injections cost the NHS an extortionate £600. When you also add the glucose testing strips, the Lantus and Novarapid Insulin, the appointments with the Eye and Diabetes clinic consultants and nurses - I was single handedly bankrupting the NHS.

All this medication did not help my eyes and foot - the deterioration continued unabated. To say I was in despair was an understatement.

Low carb was literally a lifesaver. I first cut out the sugary and starchy carbs but found that to come off the insulin I had to cut the good carbs to 20g. I eat above ground veggies plus nuts, flaxseeds, a small amount of berries and kefir and yoghurt. The rest is protein and fat.

So now, diabetic retinopathy and macular oedema reversed, diabetes in remission and almost best of all is that my right foot is now at low risk. This is why I passionately believe in low carb.

Lucylocket61's post is absolutely spot on - I agree with everything she has said.