Type 2 Chronic Fatigue

[lucylocket61]

Hi Tony and welcome I have chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia as well as being type 2 . With chronic fatigue syndrome it can affect you at any time day or night with no warning and belief me I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
One of the signs of CFS is lack of sleep I can go days without any sleep and it is very draining on your body . You can also drop of to sleep at anytime without warning, but the worse sign of CFS is the pain , thing of the worse pain you have ever felt and times that by ten and if you have that it's is CFS. But it sounds like to me that your body is adapting to your new diagnosis and the meds and that's why your GP has recommended going back if no change after three months. When you were given the Metformin did you go straight on maximum dose or was it built up overtime ?
It is also possible that a lot of this is your mind giving these symptoms after the shock of being diagnosed it does happen .
I hope you don't suffer for to long Tony and ask as many questions as you like no question is a stupid question .
Ron

I have CFS and I do not have severe pain. Not everyone with it has pain, some of us do not have fibromyalgia as well.

 

[AroundAgain]

Metformin is known to often interfere with the absoroption of Vit B12, along with a number of other medications.

If you are feeling particularly tired/weary please check out signs and symptoms of Vit B12 deficiency in particular. Also, similar symptoms can present if deficient in Vit D (common in UK) or low in Folate (Vit B9)

B12 deficiency is often mis-diagnosed as MS, Fybromyalgia or Chronic Fatige Syndrome. Doctors seem particularly lacking in knowledge and awareness of Vit B deficiency so you might need to do some research.

I've become Vit B12 deficient over the years, possibly due to Metformin and/or antacid meds and only after considerable research am I now getting the Vit B12 injections I need - with fantastic results.

It's worth being aware of this. Ask your GPs to check this out, get a print out of your results and do your research

 

[eldergarth]

I have CFS and I do not have severe pain. Not everyone with it has pain, some of us do not have fibromyalgia as well.

I'm glad you don't have pain like I said I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Who said about others having fibromyalgia ? I just mentioned that I had it .

 

[Tony61]

Hi Tony61. Welcome.

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes on July 6th. I started several medications, a low-carb diet, and swimming every second day.

While I feel so much better (BG majorly decreased, more energy) every few days I am massively exhausted. This is purely a physical exhaustion, not depression (which I have). I can't stay awake. My head droops, my eyelids close. I have to go back to sleep. Sometimes I sleep for over 12 hours (with restroom breaks).

I don't know if it's a medication side effect or the result of eating less carbs or what. I saw my doctor yesterday and apparently I have low blood pressure now, and she said it could be that.

I'm hoping it'll go away as my body gets used to everything, but yes I'm having episodes where I'm nodding off in my tracks.

Ive been diagnosed a little over two years now so i dont think it will be the meds and i've had this almost a year now bar a couple of months they blood test me with no results my blood sugars had reduced from about 68 down to 59 so i then stopped seeing the hospital led diabetic nurse she stopped it not me by the way i was a little reluctant to do it but then ive been unable to get a satisfactorily eye test because of fluctuations in my sight thats been for 18mths now,i too have depression with PTSD but that so far has not been suggested a diabetic heart problen for which ive had open heart surgery again no suggestion it may be related so thats why i thougt i would ask on here...

 

[daisy1]

@Tony61

Hello Tony and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask as many questions as you need to and someone will help.



BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  
  
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
  

 

[kitedoc]

Hi @Tony61,
Metformin can cause low serum B12 with anaemia, tiredness and other symptoms. I presume the doctor has tested you for this ?
I have read that the size of the red blood cell, a measurement called MCV (mean corpuscular volume) maybe elevated in b12 deficiency) BUT that a normal MCV readings does not rule out low serum b12 completely. Best Wishes !!

 

[Moggely]

I don't think i have chronic fatigue syndrome but i do suffer with insomnia which isn't that great so i understand the fatigue. I first put it down to the diagnose with diabetes in February this year but after 6 months i can still be incredibly tired most days. I was on metformin in the beginning and was so tired i couldn't continue with it. So i really feel your suffering and hope they get to the bottom of it all. Good luck.

 

[PW1]

Does any one else suffer with this,I'm type two diabetic and the fatigue really takes it out of me,i struggle with getting out of bed,but i do get up despite feeling worse than i did before i went to bed,within minutes of being up it kicks in,fighting it become a nightmare and 50% of the time i give in to to it and crash out

I have experienced this level of fatigue for 20 years, it triggered the pre-diabetes. It is extremely debilitating. Many days I can barely cope with using a knife or fork, washing and other daily tasks. Shifting to burning fat instead of glucose for fuel does help (i.e. low carb or keto) but then I overuse the energy and completely crash, and end up back using simple carbs for fuel because they are the only thing that works at that point except for complete bed rest (not easy to do without a maid, cook and housekeeper).

Currently for me there is hope on the horizon for diagnosis, I happened to have the complete gamut of autoimmune antibody blood tests (ANA, SMA, Lupus...), and they found something. For me it looks like I have autoimmune attack on my bile ducts. Also this particular disorder is renowned for debilitating fatigue that is often the first and long term symptom before they discover the disordered liver function tests or get around to doing the autoimmune antibody tests or ct/mri.

It took them 20 years to decide to do the autoimmune antibody test, they were checking for Lupus and found a biliary disease, but I’m very glad they did. I’ve no idea at all if this is involved in your case, but, especially if there are other obvious autoimmune conditions (like excema, asthma...), it might be worth considering, if they have not already.

Hope you get some answers, take care. Xx

 

[Tony61]

Hi @Tony61,
Metformin can cause low serum B12 with anaemia, tiredness and other symptoms. I presume the doctor has tested you for this ?
I have read that the size of the red blood cell, a measurement called MCV (mean corpuscular volume) maybe elevated in b12 deficiency) BUT that a normal MCV readings does not rule out low serum b12 completely. Best Wishes !!

Yes i have been tested twice now and came back as normal on both tests,thyroid tested twice,but thanks for your help...

 

[Tony61]

I don't think i have chronic fatigue syndrome but i do suffer with insomnia which isn't that great so i understand the fatigue. I first put it down to the diagnose with diabetes in February this year but after 6 months i can still be incredibly tired most days. I was on metformin in the beginning and was so tired i couldn't continue with it. So i really feel your suffering and hope they get to the bottom of it all. Good luck.

Thank you...

 

[Tony61]

I have experienced this level of fatigue for 20 years, it triggered the pre-diabetes. It is extremely debilitating. Many days I can barely cope with using a knife or fork, washing and other daily tasks. Shifting to burning fat instead of glucose for fuel does help (i.e. low carb or keto) but then I overuse the energy and completely crash, and end up back using simple carbs for fuel because they are the only thing that works at that point except for complete bed rest (not easy to do without a maid, cook and housekeeper).

Currently for me there is hope on the horizon for diagnosis, I happened to have the complete gamut of autoimmune antibody blood tests (ANA, SMA, Lupus...), and they found something. For me it looks like I have autoimmune attack on my bile ducts. Also this particular disorder is renowned for debilitating fatigue that is often the first and long term symptom before they discover the disordered liver function tests or get around to doing the autoimmune antibody tests or ct/mri.

It took them 20 years to decide to do the autoimmune antibody test, they were checking for Lupus and found a biliary disease, but I’m very glad they did. I’ve no idea at all if this is involved in your case, but, especially if there are other obvious autoimmune conditions (like excema, asthma...), it might be worth considering, if they have not already.

Hope you get some answers, take care. Xx

Thank you just a few options for me to present to the doctor,at the moment it all feels very complex and complicated,and difficult to take in whie fatigued...

 

[kitedoc]

Hi again @Tony61, On another thread, one about a person with T1D and CFS, I recall noting that I have friends who were diagnosed as suffering from CFS, one turned out to have Obstructive Sleep Apnoea (he was T2D and apparently quite a % of T2Ds have this condition and not all are overweight either), and with treatment lost his fatigue symptoms; another was able to recover once a past history of childhood abuse was discovered and she received suitable therapy; and a third had a chronic post-infection syndrome, which responded to a less conventional treatment. And another person has a serum B12 in the lower end of the normal range and responded to oral supplements of B12. One specialist I know opined that serum B12 needs to be 700 ng/l plus to be adequate.
( an off the cuff remark )! A delightful cleaning lady I knew was fatigued with many aches and pains and finally was discovered to have a condition called Polymyalgia Rheumatica (PMR), for which she received treatment.
My endocrinologist says he was able to rescue a lady from her nursing home placement by proving she had Addison's Disease and successfully treating her.
Since CFS is a condition diagnosed by elimination of all known causes of the symptoms (see Wikipedia) it can take sometime to reach such a diagnosis. Hopefully along the way a test which was initially negative might become positive, or a new sign or symptom helps to narrow the diagnostic field, or the result of a new test reveals a cause or direction to follow.
Again Best Wishes !!

 

[AllieRainbow]

Is it possible you need to cut down on your carbs? I noticed that you were eating porridge and bread, and the juice may be contributing a little if you drink a huge amount or it is not very dilute..

I suffer from horrendous fatigue if I eat carby foods - as soon as I cut out the bread and starchy foods like potatoes etc I feel like a different person. When I got diagnosed this year with Type 2 I was barely functioning and the HbA1c was 82. I brought my sugar down to normal levels with diet by cutting out bread, potatoes, and all starchy and processed foods. I had a lapse in my diet recently due to stress, where I went back to eating bread and sugar again, and after a week I felt dreadful and could barely keep my eyes open.

Until I got diagnosed and came on this forum, I had no idea that a carby diet was causing me so many problems. If you blood is still at 59 that suggests your average blood sugars are still quite high. I wonder if you are experiencing big ups and downs in the blood sugar?

Have you tried cutting out all processed and starchy foods? I eat eggs, fish, meat, nuts and some full fat dairy, drink lots of water, and eat some salad and non-starchy veggies. If I eat like this I feel normal, and have plenty of energy.

 

[Tony61]

Ap

 

[Tony61]

Hi again @Tony61, On another thread, one about a person with T1D and CFS, I recall noting that I have friends who were diagnosed as suffering from CFS, one turned out to have Obstructive Sleep Apnoea (he was T2D and apparently quite a % of T2Ds have this condition and not all are overweight either), and with treatment lost his fatigue symptoms; another was able to recover once a past history of childhood abuse was discovered and she received suitable therapy; and a third had a chronic post-infection syndrome, which responded to a less conventional treatment. And another person has a serum B12 in the lower end of the normal range and responded to oral supplements of B12. One specialist I know opined that serum B12 needs to be 700 ng/l plus to be adequate.
( an off the cuff remark )! A delightful cleaning lady I knew was fatigued with many aches and pains and finally was discovered to have a condition called Polymyalgia Rheumatica (PMR), for which she received treatment.
My endocrinologist says he was able to rescue a lady from her nursing home placement by proving she had Addison's Disease and successfully treating her.
Since CFS is a condition diagnosed by elimination of all known causes of the symptoms (see Wikipedia) it can take sometime to reach such a diagnosis. Hopefully along the way a test which was initially negative might become positive, or a new sign or symptom helps to narrow the diagnostic field, or the result of a new test reveals a cause or direction to follow.
Again Best Wishes !!

It all seems to be very complicated,but they are all possibiltys i can pass on to my doctor when i visit,i think i have some b12 tablets which wont hurt to to take in the mean time,and once again thank you...

 

[Tony61]

Is it possible you need to cut down on your carbs? I noticed that you were eating porridge and bread, and the juice may be contributing a little if you drink a huge amount or it is not very dilute..

I suffer from horrendous fatigue if I eat carby foods - as soon as I cut out the bread and starchy foods like potatoes etc I feel like a different person. When I got diagnosed this year with Type 2 I was barely functioning and the HbA1c was 82. I brought my sugar down to normal levels with diet by cutting out bread, potatoes, and all starchy and processed foods. I had a lapse in my diet recently due to stress, where I went back to eating bread and sugar again, and after a week I felt dreadful and could barely keep my eyes open.

Until I got diagnosed and came on this forum, I had no idea that a carby diet was causing me so many problems. If you blood is still at 59 that suggests your average blood sugars are still quite high. I wonder if you are experiencing big ups and downs in the blood sugar?

Have you tried cutting out all processed and starchy foods? I eat eggs, fish, meat, nuts and some full fat dairy, drink lots of water, and eat some salad and non-starchy veggies. If I eat like this I feel normal, and have plenty of energy.

Porridge is something i have most mornings,bread i do eat wholemeal but only in moderation its not a daily thing,juice is not a huge amount something i could dilute a bit more,but i have that because i find i hydrate a lot through the night i get very dry and daytime if i do anything physical the sweat just soaks me and its very wet including my top so i have to replace what i loose this is a daily occurrence,but that could be due to i have a heart condition and had surgery last year so I'm still healing from that with still lots of ache's and pains so its all very confusing trying to pinpoint one from the other,but thank you for your advice it will be useful and I'm learning every day...

 

[MargaretR]

There isn’t a specific test of polymyalgia (unless things have changed in the last 5 years). It’s diagnosed by looking at inflammation markers in the blood (ESR and CRP). They will be high if it’s Polymyalgia. However, other conditions can cause them to be high as well.

I’ve had polymyalgia for about 10 years, but it has now been replaced by rheumatoid arthritis. The steroids that I was prescribed for polymyalgia brought on the diabetes 2.

Recently I thought the polymyalgia was coming back, aches and pains in the legs, shoulders and especially the small of my back. The distance I could walk decreased to about 25 yards. And I kept falling asleep during the day, and sleeping 10 hours at night. Then my Gp tested me for Vitamin D defiency, and it was indeed very low. I’m now halfway through a 7 week course of high dose Vit D, and gradually the aches and pains are going, and the distance I can walk is increasing all the time.

 

[mike.sobhy]

I slept for more than 13 hours. is that okay? Do you suffer from Chronic Fatigue?