I Am Totally Confused

[simonr1]

Thanks EllieM. I find it amazing that Diabetic nurses and dieticians are distributing mis-information as in (1). I am interested in LCHF but Dr. Neal Barnard of PCRM certainly makes a case for no fat, not just for treating diabetes but lots of other illnesses.

I will be interested to see what others think.

nolly53

Hi Nolly, just as an aside, Doctors are still using the BMI which has been shown to be complete and utter rubbish. I guess they will still push it until they are told not to.

 

[Daibell]

A longstanding topic on this forum. In the opinion of many on this forum, DUK advice (.org. not .uk) with regard to diet is best ignored although they are catching up (you should have seen the advice 10 years ago!). DUK follows the same mantra that PHE follow and they follow university research where the relevant professors are funded mostly by the food or pharma industry. Much of the advice is based on very weak science but keeps the funding rolling in. I'm not aware of any good evidence that fat should be avoided when diabetic. The mantra about saturated fat clogging the arteries and so on has been shown to be based on very weak science as the liver is the main contributor to lipids in the blood and what you eat is not a big contributor. This forum consists of 1000s of actual diabetics who have worked out from many information sources that the main problem with our food is the carbs. There will be exceptions of course. Don't worry about calories as they are of little relevance to what you eat as each food type is metabolised in different ways. Keep the carbs down and have enough fat and protein to keep you feeling full; simples.

 

[pollensa]

I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED

I have been diabetic since 2002. I was told that my diabetes would progress and so it did. First Metformin then I started using insulin 7 years ago. The dosage was gradually increased.

Four years ago I read Dr David Cavan’s book “Reversing your Diabetes”. As I result I changed my eating lifestyle. As a result I halved my insulin intake overnight and lost almost 10kg in about 10 weeks. Great. Perhaps, as Dr Cavan suggests my diabetes may not be progressive after all.

However further reductions in insulin have not followed and I seemed to have plateaued.

Earlier this year my diabetic specialist prescribed Jardiance. At first I thought that this would be the answer. I started losing more weight and was able to halve my insulin intake again. However, within a month I was in hospital for the first time in 50 years with a serious urinary infection.

This has made me determined to get off insulin and diabetes medication altogether and reverse my diabetes. But how?

This is my dilemma – everywhere I look I get conflicting evidence and “advice”.

1. I could follow the Diabetes UK Healthy eating sheet given to me recently which recommends “Avoid skipping meals”, “eat pasta, easy cook rice, new potatoes”, “Cut down on fat – eat low fat or diet yoghurts”, “a small glass of fruit juice or fruit smoothie” etc.

2. In total contrast to “Avoid skipping meals”, Dr Jason Fung recommends Intermittent Fasting as a solution.

3. Dr Eric Berg recommends “carbs must be reduced. Fats can be increased”

4. Dr. Neal Barnard of PCRM tells us that it is the fat in the cells that makes them insulin resistant. “The old approach had us cutting down on carbohydrates.” “A low-fat vegetarian approach recognizes that whole-food carbohydrates are fine; it’s the fat in our diets that is the problem.”

You see my problem, and I believe the problem facing all type 2 diabetics. These recommendations are contradictory and in some cases mutually exclusive. In fact you only need to look at this website to see the abundance of diets and methods suggested.

There are probably other non-medicine solutions out there. Does it matter which one I choose? This is so important to me that I don’t want to make a bad choice. Do I have to give them all a go to find out for myself what actually works?

nolly53

I am sure many other people are too Nolly so your not alone. Although I was finally only pre diabetic, it was sufficient for wake up call to change lifestyle even though I was already eating organic and healthy foods. I am a great fan of Dr. Fung due to his eloquent simple way he explains Diabetes 2, including his video The Perfect Treatment.

It may help to put into perspective keep in mind every individual is different, what may work for one may not for another, having said that, tools and knowledge for one to try can be beneficial.

I made four simple changes, I attach link which is shown on www.dietdoctor.com excellent website with many choices of low carb eating plan and other information which may prove helpful also.

hope the below gives some incentive amongst the general confusion, I based my decisions taking it all on board and then deciding what to do, and this is what I did..may clear some confusion one way or the other contents self explanatory, again I am not a doctor, this is what worked for myself, if Diaebtes UK Healthy eating are suggesting as you state personally I have to say I am shocked and surprised that they recommend as you mention, was under the impression pasta, rice, potatoes and bread were not the best foods and to skip totally, they should be ashamed of themselves recommending as indicated.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/the-keto-diet-not-only-do-i-love-it-but-it-has-changed-my-life-and-body
Good luck.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED

I have been diabetic since 2002. I was told that my diabetes would progress and so it did. First Metformin then I started using insulin 7 years ago. The dosage was gradually increased.

Four years ago I read Dr David Cavan’s book “Reversing your Diabetes”. As I result I changed my eating lifestyle. As a result I halved my insulin intake overnight and lost almost 10kg in about 10 weeks. Great. Perhaps, as Dr Cavan suggests my diabetes may not be progressive after all.

However further reductions in insulin have not followed and I seemed to have plateaued.

Earlier this year my diabetic specialist prescribed Jardiance. At first I thought that this would be the answer. I started losing more weight and was able to halve my insulin intake again. However, within a month I was in hospital for the first time in 50 years with a serious urinary infection.

This has made me determined to get off insulin and diabetes medication altogether and reverse my diabetes. But how?

This is my dilemma – everywhere I look I get conflicting evidence and “advice”.

1. I could follow the Diabetes UK Healthy eating sheet given to me recently which recommends “Avoid skipping meals”, “eat pasta, easy cook rice, new potatoes”, “Cut down on fat – eat low fat or diet yoghurts”, “a small glass of fruit juice or fruit smoothie” etc.

2. In total contrast to “Avoid skipping meals”, Dr Jason Fung recommends Intermittent Fasting as a solution.

3. Dr Eric Berg recommends “carbs must be reduced. Fats can be increased”

4. Dr. Neal Barnard of PCRM tells us that it is the fat in the cells that makes them insulin resistant. “The old approach had us cutting down on carbohydrates.” “A low-fat vegetarian approach recognizes that whole-food carbohydrates are fine; it’s the fat in our diets that is the problem.”

You see my problem, and I believe the problem facing all type 2 diabetics. These recommendations are contradictory and in some cases mutually exclusive. In fact you only need to look at this website to see the abundance of diets and methods suggested.

There are probably other non-medicine solutions out there. Does it matter which one I choose? This is so important to me that I don’t want to make a bad choice. Do I have to give them all a go to find out for myself what actually works?

nolly53

For me, it's been like it has been for most of us; figure out what works for you, and stick with it. For me, I started lchf 2 years ago an recently progressed to keto. 3 Months after starting lchf I could ditch the meds (glic and a statin), and my latest HbA1c was 34 this past May. Due to foodintolerances/migraine triggers it was a bit of a puzzle, but I just took what worked for me and ditched the rest. Your meter will tell you what's right for you. (If it goes up more than 2 mmol/l 2 hours after first bite, the meal was too carby).

 

[ickihun]

I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED

I have been diabetic since 2002. I was told that my diabetes would progress and so it did. First Metformin then I started using insulin 7 years ago. The dosage was gradually increased.

Four years ago I read Dr David Cavan’s book “Reversing your Diabetes”. As I result I changed my eating lifestyle. As a result I halved my insulin intake overnight and lost almost 10kg in about 10 weeks. Great. Perhaps, as Dr Cavan suggests my diabetes may not be progressive after all.

However further reductions in insulin have not followed and I seemed to have plateaued.

Earlier this year my diabetic specialist prescribed Jardiance. At first I thought that this would be the answer. I started losing more weight and was able to halve my insulin intake again. However, within a month I was in hospital for the first time in 50 years with a serious urinary infection.

This has made me determined to get off insulin and diabetes medication altogether and reverse my diabetes. But how?

This is my dilemma – everywhere I look I get conflicting evidence and “advice”.

1. I could follow the Diabetes UK Healthy eating sheet given to me recently which recommends “Avoid skipping meals”, “eat pasta, easy cook rice, new potatoes”, “Cut down on fat – eat low fat or diet yoghurts”, “a small glass of fruit juice or fruit smoothie” etc.

2. In total contrast to “Avoid skipping meals”, Dr Jason Fung recommends Intermittent Fasting as a solution.

3. Dr Eric Berg recommends “carbs must be reduced. Fats can be increased”

4. Dr. Neal Barnard of PCRM tells us that it is the fat in the cells that makes them insulin resistant. “The old approach had us cutting down on carbohydrates.” “A low-fat vegetarian approach recognizes that whole-food carbohydrates are fine; it’s the fat in our diets that is the problem.”

You see my problem, and I believe the problem facing all type 2 diabetics. These recommendations are contradictory and in some cases mutually exclusive. In fact you only need to look at this website to see the abundance of diets and methods suggested.

There are probably other non-medicine solutions out there. Does it matter which one I choose? This is so important to me that I don’t want to make a bad choice. Do I have to give them all a go to find out for myself what actually works?

nolly53

@nolly53 we are all different so your treatment and needs will vary to others. What have you discovered about your own needs?
So that eating method reduced your insulin need. Also new med reduced to even less necessary and has inspired you to be able to stop insulin. However you've come to a stalemate.
I did too.
Unfortunately mine has increased again after my diabetic team changing my insulin type and I'm no longer able to tolerate metformin well. Low carbing is only an aid for me. However like you I also believe I'm not finished trying yet. Hence going through the process to have bariatric surgery so weight loss can reduce my insulin units needed too. I'm not advising the same thou.
This is what I need.
My advice is to continue seeking out what works for you.
Have you tried every suggestion from this forum?

For me, weight loss is a higher priority to gain less insulin need so I'm currently concentrating on that.
Unfortunately I don't tolerate any diabetic meds other than insulin without making another health problem worse. So I'm stuck with insulin for a little while longer, for now.

However things are always changing. Tablet insulin is being tested currently so if I get stuck with insulin I may not have to inject. or maybe I lose enough weight to just need metformin and being able to tolerate it with my new digestive system. I'll soon know.

Stick with getting to know what YOUR body needs.
Keep at it and good luck

 

[dawnmc]

Very interesting that you were vegetarian when diagnosed with diabetes. (This goes against Dr. Neal Barnard's teaching.)

I agree with you about Jardiance. I certainly would never consider taking it again.

nolly53

I know, I had his book too!

 

[derry60]

I am a T2 (diet controlled) in my own personal experience as a vegetarian from birth - approach 4 didnt work! I followed a low fat, high fiber vegetarian (vegan for many years). I ate lots of fruit and veg, filled up on higher fiber carbs such as brown rice, wholegrain pasta porridge etc, refused to eat anything that was more than 5% fat. I still became T2.
After I was diagnosed the NHS dietitian said I was following a "perfect diet" and should continue. GP just told me I was going to take metformin.
I refused the meds , bought my own meter and started to test how my body reacted tot he foods I ate. I was shocked at how high the spoke was after my "healthy porridge made with skimmed milk", the horror of the spike after my low fat wholewheat veggie lasagne.

After reading lots of the info on this forum, and continued testing with my meter it was very evident that the low carb approach worked for me. It did take me a long time to overcome my fear (years of brainwashing) of low fat.

I now eat a vegetarian low carb healthy fat diet. My blood glucose levels are controlled, I have no diabetic complications, I have never needed any medication (other than a multivitamin to ensure I get enough B12 and iron) my cholesterol levels are normal (lowish). My only "problem" is not loosing too much weight each week - yes really!! despite eating cheese, clotted cream, chocolate etc every week.
This approach works for me, we are all individuals, the only way I found what worked for me was to test, test test, I still test but dont get too worried about small changes. (I have discovered that my BG levels follow hormonal changes (monthly cyces and ovulation) and are raised a few days before I come down with a cold/virus etc.

Have a good look around the forum, have a look at the dietdoctor website for great low carb ideas (there are pictures on the site for lower carb choices - so useful!)

Keep asking for help

You have just told my story. I ate all the healthy (Or so I thought) foods and put weight on and was diagnosed with sugars being to high _Pre Diabetic. Now I eat low carb high fat and sugars have come down and I have lost weight

 

[bulkbiker]

I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED

I have been diabetic since 2002. I was told that my diabetes would progress and so it did. First Metformin then I started using insulin 7 years ago. The dosage was gradually increased.

Four years ago I read Dr David Cavan’s book “Reversing your Diabetes”. As I result I changed my eating lifestyle. As a result I halved my insulin intake overnight and lost almost 10kg in about 10 weeks. Great. Perhaps, as Dr Cavan suggests my diabetes may not be progressive after all.

However further reductions in insulin have not followed and I seemed to have plateaued.

Earlier this year my diabetic specialist prescribed Jardiance. At first I thought that this would be the answer. I started losing more weight and was able to halve my insulin intake again. However, within a month I was in hospital for the first time in 50 years with a serious urinary infection.

This has made me determined to get off insulin and diabetes medication altogether and reverse my diabetes. But how?

This is my dilemma – everywhere I look I get conflicting evidence and “advice”.

1. I could follow the Diabetes UK Healthy eating sheet given to me recently which recommends “Avoid skipping meals”, “eat pasta, easy cook rice, new potatoes”, “Cut down on fat – eat low fat or diet yoghurts”, “a small glass of fruit juice or fruit smoothie” etc.

2. In total contrast to “Avoid skipping meals”, Dr Jason Fung recommends Intermittent Fasting as a solution.

3. Dr Eric Berg recommends “carbs must be reduced. Fats can be increased”

4. Dr. Neal Barnard of PCRM tells us that it is the fat in the cells that makes them insulin resistant. “The old approach had us cutting down on carbohydrates.” “A low-fat vegetarian approach recognizes that whole-food carbohydrates are fine; it’s the fat in our diets that is the problem.”

You see my problem, and I believe the problem facing all type 2 diabetics. These recommendations are contradictory and in some cases mutually exclusive. In fact you only need to look at this website to see the abundance of diets and methods suggested.

There are probably other non-medicine solutions out there. Does it matter which one I choose? This is so important to me that I don’t want to make a bad choice. Do I have to give them all a go to find out for myself what actually works?

nolly53

In your shoes I would look at the one that appeals to me and try it for 6 months.
If you can't maintain it then there's no point in trying really. So if you like meat (as I do) then go for LCHF.
If you think a WFPB way of eating is more suitable for you then give that a go (but beware fat should be kept to an absolute minimum).
Personally I did LCHF with intermittent fasting and bit of extended fasting. My LCHF swiftly moved towards a ketogenic diet and has since moved more towards a carnivore diet (mainly because I quite enjoy experimenting with things).
A whole heap of people here have had a huge amount of success with LCHF I would hazard a guess at the majority of the success stories come from some level of carb cutting way of eating. As always it's up to you but you have to be able to actually do it.

 

[Resurgam]

I just need to eat low carb foods. I eat early and late, and find that is better for me.
Years of diets have made my metabolism go into a panic if there is the slightest hint of restriction, so I eat about 40 gm of carbs a day, about 10 of them in a morning, and the rest at dinner time and the diabetes is no longer an issue.
All the noise and fury about fats was apparently just that, and the medication and diet for low fat seem to have done little good. There was an item in the news recently that the increase in average age at death not due to injury has now been reversed, not just stopped but reducing.

 

[Russell52]

LCHF is working for me. I am stable at 10 stone 4 ( waist 30 ins) and blood sugars significantly reduced since starting diet. Really cut down on bread, no rice and no pasta. One downside is muscle cramps which I've just started taking magnesium for. I have occasional treats knowing I'll spike but most days I test and I'm in a good place. IMHO avoid all low fat foods. Being overweight contributes to bad control but it's excess sugar that kills and that's in carbohydrate. Good luck

 

[denverguy]

Eric Berg is a chiropractor. Neal Barnard is a respected MD who is president of the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine.

As far as being vegan or vegetarian and still getting diabetes, those terms just refer to what someone doesn't eat. You can live on beer and potato chips and be vegan. You can eat cheese and be vegetarian.