Type 2 What educaton courses have you been offered and did you take them up?

[NicoleC1971]

There seems to be a new market for diabetes ed courses! I am working with a group trying to set up our own volunteer led course hence my interest if there's anyone who has tried a company called EMPOWER?
You may have experienced X-pert or DESMOND too and I am aware of some individual GP practices taking the lead on low carb but I'd be interested to know what's being offered either to pre diabetics or newly diagnosed type 2s!
Thank you for your input!

 

[britishpub]

I was offered a DESMOND on the same day as I was told of the diagnosis, but didn't bother to book a day, then was told by my GP that as I hadn't done so I wouldn't be offered any courses again.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

I took up the offers of a DESMOND course and a half hour consultation with an NHS dietician. The Desmond course peddled the eat-healthy-carbs mantra and, for me anyway, was largely a waste of time. Had I known then what I now know I probably would have been a loud voice of dissent. I got more sense from the dietician who stressed the need to reduce carbs of all types. When I forced the issue she suggested a maximum of 35g carb per meal.
I suspect that simply telling people to eat more or less of any food group is largely meaningless e.g. 10 fewer chips, one more sausage? Courses should cover a low carb approach, how to read food labels and determine carbohydrate content, what and how to substitute for carbohydrates, simple and interesting recipe ideas as well as the emotional and psychological impact of a diabetes diagnosis. That said, the DESMOND course did cover the emotional aspects and how to go about recording and monitoring BMI, blood pressure, HbA1c etc and it was useful in that respect. I was also aware that the course has to be very generalised to cope with the wide range of knowledge in a group.
This was over 4 years ago and courses may have changed. Also, attendance is voluntary so newly diagnosed diabetics who just want to take the tablets and continue eating the way they always have will not be in attendance!

 

[DCUKMod]

There seems to be a new market for diabetes ed courses! I am working with a group trying to set up our own volunteer led course hence my interest if there's anyone who has tried a company called EMPOWER?
You may have experienced X-pert or DESMOND too and I am aware of some individual GP practices taking the lead on low carb but I'd be interested to know what's being offered either to pre diabetics or newly diagnosed type 2s!
Thank you for your input!

I was never offered, and therefore never attended a T2 education session, however, about 12 months ago I saw a demo of the DESMOND offering.

As a matter of interest; where are you (roughly) in UK?

 

[ally1]

I did a one day Desmond course. My dn said if I didn't attend ten the surgery wouldn't treat me for being t2 as I would be refusing the course so went. Personally I thought it was a waste of time.
I learnt more on here.
I also saw the dietician as request by dn. Went and that was a waste of time.

 

[Guzzler]

A place on the DESMOND course was arranged for me at diagnosis. A couple of weeks later the invitation arrived and I promptly filed it into the bin. I have attended two other NHS courses (for conditions other than Diabetes) and overall found them too generic, mostly of little or no use and physically and mentally very tiring.
Neither course was local to me so the expense was a factor in my decision to decline the invitation as was the phaff of having to determine whether or not access would be a problem. All this on top of being newly diagnosed.
My DN was was super unimpressed when I blurted out that the letter had gone into the bin, after all hadn't she gone to all of that trouble of ticking the box?

 

[TriciaWs]

I was offered either Desmond or an appointment with a dietitian, no third option of 'no thanks'.
I took the dietitian as it was shorter. I already knew about the lowcarbprogram and thought that a better way to go.
She didn't like the lowcarbprogram, even though I was losing weight (her main focus) and self-testing showed my Blood Glucose was down into the normal range. She told me that, at 100g of carbs a day, I wasn't eating enough carbs, and yes, she gave me a copy of the Eatwell plate. She offered to book me a second appointment, I put her off.

My DN nurse is a little more receptive now my 3 mth HbA1C is 38.

 

[HSSS]

I just did my course this week. It was just named T2 education for those diagnosed less than 6 months

First half was an educator teaching the group what diabetes actually was, treatments, support available locally, checks we should have and why (feet, eyes, hb1ac, cholesterol) What an hb1ac was and why we should know our numbers. Myths and facts.

Second half was a dietian. Identified food groups, explained carbs are the one that affect bs. Talked a fair bit about gi and slow release carbs and slow rises rather than spikes. Explained traffic light system on packaging. Got us to identify what foods had carbs and which ones had more. When pushed agreed that total carbs ingested made more difference to bs than choosing low gi ones. Again when pushed suggested 100-120 a day. Stated being on track 70% was enough to manage hb1ac. The eatwell was mentioned only in terms of identifying food groups and he even said I don’t advocate the proportions given here then moved swiftly on.

Both when spoken to privately agreed low carb was the way forward but were restricted in what they were allowed to say. The first encouraged me to say what was working for me and why as a way around those limits. She would love to teach our message but isn’t allowed. Yet. The dietian agreed lower carb is best but was pretty anti high fat. His belief was its weight loss that reduces hb1ac and cholesterol not lchf itself. His concern was long term maintainence and less extreme achieves that for more people. Ie something better than nothing. Apparently uptake of the course is 6% of those offered it.

The group was mostly 3-6 months in. More than half didn’t know their hb1ac, a few not even having heard of it. More than half on metformin, no one on insulin. 3/4 had no idea to reduce carbs and many didn’t have much idea what contained carbs beyond bread. Overall a staggering lack of knowledge so hopefully they learned at least the basics of their long term potentially very serious condition. And it wasn’t science heavy or detailed at all really. It wasn’t strictly a low carb message but went that direction a bit.

Whilst it was pretty much a waste of time for me and a couple of others for the rest it was essential. So on that basis I can see why some gps “make” their patients attend.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Just the Desmond course and no I did not go.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I was offered an X-Pert course, which I think was one evening a week for 6 weeks. By the time I was given a date my HbA1c had reduced to 46 and most of my excess weight had gone. I had also found this forum and learnt a great deal about diabetes and how best to control it. I refused the invitation. Nothing has been noted on my records about this, and nothing has been said to me. That was in 2014.

 

[NicoleC1971]

I was never offered, and therefore never attended a T2 education session, however, about 12 months ago I saw a demo of the DESMOND offering.

As a matter of interest; where are you (roughly) in UK?

Surrey Downs CCG area! Thank you for responding

 

[NicoleC1971]

I was offered an X-Pert course, which I think was one evening a week for 6 weeks. By the time I was given a date my HbA1c had reduced to 46 and most of my excess weight had gone. I had also found this forum and learnt a great deal about diabetes and how best to control it. I refused the invitation. Nothing has been noted on my records about this, and nothing has been said to me. That was in 2014.

That's interesting. I believe that only 7% of courses offered are taken up possibly because like you people find their own way to manage their diabetes (or not in many cases). I suspect that newly diagnosed people need a course they can get onto quickly whilst their motivation to change is higher?

 

[NicoleC1971]

I took up the offers of a DESMOND course and a half hour consultation with an NHS dietician. The Desmond course peddled the eat-healthy-carbs mantra and, for me anyway, was largely a waste of time. Had I known then what I now know I probably would have been a loud voice of dissent. I got more sense from the dietician who stressed the need to reduce carbs of all types. When I forced the issue she suggested a maximum of 35g carb per meal.
I suspect that simply telling people to eat more or less of any food group is largely meaningless e.g. 10 fewer chips, one more sausage? Courses should cover a low carb approach, how to read food labels and determine carbohydrate content, what and how to substitute for carbohydrates, simple and interesting recipe ideas as well as the emotional and psychological impact of a diabetes diagnosis. That said, the DESMOND course did cover the emotional aspects and how to go about recording and monitoring BMI, blood pressure, HbA1c etc and it was useful in that respect. I was also aware that the course has to be very generalised to cope with the wide range of knowledge in a group.
This was over 4 years ago and courses may have changed. Also, attendance is voluntary so newly diagnosed diabetics who just want to take the tablets and continue eating the way they always have will not be in attendance!

Thanks for your feedback I agree with your last point especially! I do like David Unwin's approach in which he gives the patient that same choice i.e. take the tablets for the resf of your life (and more of them) or see what you can do with dietary change (low carb); he reports that the vast majority of his patients take the option to change their diets.
I would hope that GPs could
give people the right choices and shape their path towards the better option.

 

[NicoleC1971]

I did a one day Desmond course. My dn said if I didn't attend ten the surgery wouldn't treat me for being t2 as I would be refusing the course so went. Personally I thought it was a waste of time.
I learnt more on here.
I also saw the dietician as request by dn. Went and that was a waste of time.

Hi. Glad you have found your own way to get support. Out of interest was it the content of the advice given by DESMOND and the dietician that was the waste of time or something else?

 

[DCUKMod]

That's interesting. I believe that only 7% of courses offered are taken up possibly because like you people find their own way to manage their diabetes (or not in many cases). I suspect that newly diagnosed people need a course they can get onto quickly whilst their motivation to change is higher?

Hi Nicole, I'm a little interested where you got the 7% figure from. Was that your own CCG's quoted figure?

 

[NicoleC1971]

Hi Nicole, I'm a little interested where you got the 7% figure from. Was that your own CCG's quoted figure?

That figure came from Empower who claim a higher uptake (40%) because they offer more courses in different locations and do the course booking themselves (this is the pitch to the buyer). Its only a 1/2 day course though so I guess this is how they are able to do thngs more cheaply!

 

[Bluetit1802]

Its only a 1/2 day course though so I guess this is how they are able to do thngs more cheaply!

I imagine people are willing to give up half a day. People are not so willing to give up an evening a week for 6 weeks. However, I doubt they can cover all the basics in half a day. The courses aren't just on dietary choices, they do cover things such as how the pancreas and liver work, insulin resistance and its causes and effects, and lots of other basic information

 

[Robbity]

My DN suggested an EXPERT course soon after diagnosis, but there wasn't one easily accessible at the time. This was before Trudy Deakin wrote her Eat Fat book. Later my GP asked me had I been on one and when I told him I hadn't, he said you don't really need to now do you...

To start with a bit of common sense and a basic understanding about the effect of carbs on glucose was all I actually needed to get my levels under control, then Google and our forum have been my main source of education since then.

Robbity

 

[ally1]

Hi. Glad you have found your own way to get support. Out of interest was it the content of the advice given by DESMOND and the dietician that was the waste of time or something else?

With the Desmond course, the two women doing it, both said to eat potatoes, all fruit, bread etc.
The dietician at the hospital, she looked about 18 lol. She said the same

 

[jos64]

I’m booked on a DESMOND course in October. Will let you know the feedback