Guardian : both barrels....

[Dark Horse]

The article completely skips over the Ancel Keyes theory that "we are what we eat" so that if cholesterol is bad then we shouldn't eat cholesterol.
As far as I know it has been well established that most cholesterol is manufactured within the body, mainly from carbohydrates. So demonising fats because of cholesterol in the blood is a completely separate issue from contolling cholesterol levels.

Oh, and linking Guardian readers with left wing vegans is disingenuous to say the least. Unless all Daily Mail readers are automatically so right wing they make Tommy Robinson look centrist?

Allegedly you can read the Guardian and still eat meat. They even publish restaurant reviews and recipes with a very high meat content.

Dietary cholesterol has little effect on blood cholesterol in most people which is why the UK never made public health recommendations to reduce cholesterol consumption. However, LDL blood cholesterol is generally thought to be increased by increased consumption of saturated fat.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317332.php

 

[Guzzler]

Dietary cholesterol has little effect on blood cholesterol in most people which is why the UK never made public health recommendations to reduce cholesterol consumption. However, LDL blood cholesterol is generally thought to be increased by increased consumption of saturated fat.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317332.php

I have just seen David Diamond's lecture which is linked to on another thread and the LDLc and LDLp is pretty much blown out of the water where CVD/CHD is concerned. So whether SFAs cause a hike in LDL is immaterial in this regard.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

UK never made public health recommendations to reduce cholesterol consumption.

It may not have been recommended by UK public health but my UK GP certainly told me to avoid things like eggs, prawns, because of the cholesterol content. I missed my eggs a lot. I also know others whose GPs told them the same story. Interesting that Ancel Keys was not confused about dietary cholesterol, as far back as the late 1950s or early 1960s and even promoted the Mediterranean Diet. He can't have been all bad.

 

[NicoleC1971]

It may not have been recommended by UK public health but my UK GP certainly told me to avoid things like eggs, prawns, because of the cholesterol content. I missed my eggs a lot. I also know others whose GPs told them the same story. Interesting that Ancel Keys was not confused about dietary cholesterol, as far back as the late 1950s or early 1960s and even promoted the Mediterranean Diet. He can't have been all bad.

Well he got demonsed by the low carb lot because he relentlessly pushed the lipid heart hypothesis but in later life was believed to have said that maybe cholesterol was not as important as once thought. Ironically he had a place in Pioppi of the eponymous diet book by Dr Asseem Malhotra, cholesterol sceptic du jour!
Certainly dietary cholesterol was finally declared to be 'no longer a nutrient of concern' by the US in 2015. Sadly if GPs get next to no training in nurition then they will stick with whatever the nutritional wisdom of their youth was - sad to think of all those egg yolks and prawns that went uneaten..Why did we believe all that rubbish advice?

 

[Mbaker]

I have noticed more and more status quo arguments at the same time as the popularity of low carbing and fasting, coincidence?....

This is hour 10 of 12 so there will be a ramping up of this nonsense. The problem they have is the Internet, this trash is dead but some just don't know it.

 

[brassyblonde900]

I have noticed more and more status quo arguments at the same time as the popularity of low carbing and fasting, coincidence?....

This is hour 10 of 12 so there will be a ramping up of this nonsense. The problem they have is the Internet, this trash is dead but some just don't know it.

There is a lot of biiiig-biiig money at stake.
GPs are incentivised to prescribe Statins....when one follows the money, its not hard to see all the punters whose equines are galloping at breakneck speed in this race.
So called "eminent Scientists" are engaged in a proxy war over blood lipids, as far as I'm concerned they are doing the bidding of their paymasters.

 

[LeftPeg]

My cholesterol doctor is cited in this piece, and I can vouch for his integrity. Mind you, I have FH (Familial Hypercholesterolemia) and was diagnosed with a total serum cholesterol of 13.5 - the sort of extreme levels proven to cause heart attacks / strokes.

 

[bulkbiker]

the sort of extreme levels proven to cause heart attacks / strokes.

Or not...

 

[LeftPeg]

Or not...

I'm on the side of science where FH is concerned. Even Malcolm Hendrick concedes that statins are of use in people like myself.

 

[bulkbiker]

I'm on the side of science where FH is concerned. Even Malcolm Hendrick concedes that statins are of use in people like myself.

Have you always had very high cholesterol? I was watching a presentation by David Diamond only this morning where those with FH, once past their 30's, seem to live longer than the average population. I think a lot of doctors seem to latch onto it these days as an explanation for someone whose cholesterol goes higher over time whereas with FH cholesterol levels would always have been highly elevated.

 

[Guzzler]

Have you always had very high cholesterol? I was watching a presentation by David Diamond only this morning where those with FH, once past their 30's, seem to live longer than the average population. I think a lot of doctors seem to latch onto it these days as an explanation for someone whose cholesterol goes higher over time whereas with FH cholesterol levels would always have been highly elevated.

Aye, I've seen a coupla boffins who cite studies that say FHers can live into the seventh or eighth decade. That's not too shabby an age.

 

[LeftPeg]

Have you always had very high cholesterol? I was watching a presentation by David Diamond only this morning where those with FH, once past their 30's, seem to live longer than the average population. I think a lot of doctors seem to latch onto it these days as an explanation for someone whose cholesterol goes higher over time whereas with FH cholesterol levels would always have been highly elevated.

First got tested aged 16 and it was 8 point something. Was given a statin but never took it.

Got myself tested aged 28 and it was 13.5, but even that’s not as high as my mum and her brothers. Funnily enough, my mum’s just turned 70 and like her brothers has never had cardiovascular illness. I’m told we’re a family of outliers, but I might watch that vid...

My cholesterol is 3.0 now. But my blood sugars...

 

[caroline_92]

Bit late to this discussion but wanted to vent that I was very cross about this article, in particular the first paragraph which sets out the argument that the problem with butter being good for us is that it contradicts decades of medical advice! After this I struggled to read it to the end...

I had understood, can’t remember from where, that statins can make a contribution to lowering heart disease rates but not through cholesterol. There is another mechanism at play but this is unclear. Anybody else come across this and know more?

 

[bulkbiker]

Bit late to this discussion but wanted to vent that I was very cross about this article, in particular the first paragraph which sets out the argument that the problem with butter being good for us is that it contradicts decades of medical advice! After this I struggled to read it to the end...

I had understood, can’t remember from where, that statins can make a contribution to lowering heart disease rates but not through cholesterol. There is another mechanism at play but this is unclear. Anybody else come across this and know more?

Its meant to be either less inflammation or maybe less coagulation factors due to statins.. no-one is quite sure because the raw data from the statin trials has never been released.

 

[Guzzler]

Bit late to this discussion but wanted to vent that I was very cross about this article, in particular the first paragraph which sets out the argument that the problem with butter being good for us is that it contradicts decades of medical advice! After this I struggled to read it to the end...

I had understood, can’t remember from where, that statins can make a contribution to lowering heart disease rates but not through cholesterol. There is another mechanism at play but this is unclear. Anybody else come across this and know more?

Are you speaking of the secondary prevention of 3% by a different pathway? I was listening to the Low Carb Houston Conference yesterday and heard a bit about it but sorry, can't remember more details or even which speaker alluded to it.

 

[caroline_92]

Its meant to be either less inflammation or maybe less coagulation factors due to statins.. no-one is quite sure because the raw data from the statin trials has never been released.

Its meant to be either less inflammation or maybe less coagulation factors due to statins.. no-one is quite sure because the raw data from the statin trials has never been released.

Ah, yes all part of the mystery that is statins!

 

[Julia99]

I have a cousin who works for Pfeiffer pharmaceuticals - said he would never take statins, quote if you had seen the research..... unquote

 

[caroline_92]

I won't ever take statins either after seeing my mother deteriorate in front of my eyes and end up in intensive care, as a result of a reaction to them.... Only one case I know, but they really are not the wonder drug many in the medical world like to portray them as.

 

[lindisfel]

First got tested aged 16 and it was 8 point something. Was given a statin but never took it.

Got myself tested aged 28 and it was 13.5, but even that’s not as high as my mum and her brothers. Funnily enough, my mum’s just turned 70 and like her brothers has never had cardiovascular illness. I’m told we’re a family of outliers, but I might watch that vid...

My cholesterol is 3.0 now. But my blood sugars...

I would worry if my cholesterol was that low, a recent Chinese study links dementia with low cholesterol in the elderly.
No wonder statins cause brain fog.

 

[LeftPeg]

I would worry if my cholesterol was that low, a recent Chinese study links dementia with low cholesterol in the elderly.
No wonder statins cause brain fog.

I'm lucky in that I've avoided the side-effects of statin therapy so far. Although I'm now successfully using gene therapy, so I'm hoping to drop the statins entirely soon.

The undoubted benefit of having very low cholesterol is that it has reversed the plaque build-up on my tendons (xanthoma) entirely. I live in hope that it has had the same effect on my arteries!