1st day of low carb, food diary.

[fergus]

Hi Siobhan,

There have been a number of threads in the past on the subject of Lantus / Levemir (to me, he was the long haired dude in Lord of the Rings). Quite a few of us find that splitting the basal dose gives much better control over 24 hours and this is because the insulins don't in reality keep working for that long. In some cases, Lantus will have run its course in as little as 18 hours (Bernstein).
I won't stop working for you, but it's quite likely that it won't still be working much more than 20 hours after you last injected. Whenever you hear of basal doses being split, this is why.

All the best,

fergus

 

[Pattidevans]

I say its rubbish you say its good, we are all different!

Siobhan, I wasn't contradicting you. I was merely saying that yes, we are all different, but if something doesn't work for you then it doesn't make it rubbish "per se". The danger is others seeing that and believing that it's "rubbish" because someone said so. In fact, on another forum I have a friend who simply couldn't get good BGs on Lantus, but can on Levemir... go figure! They're both good insulins as long as they suit you - and thank goodness there's a choice.

Apologies to Nathan - did not wish to hijack your thread, but thought I should clarify.

 

[nathansdiary]

End of day three and nothing over 8.5 today!!! I am starting to get the hang of this I think. I am also getting used to the hunger thing as Monday I was starving all day with the carbs missing. Today I didn't really notice, I am obviously adjusting. I was eating too much before so it will take a few days of diet before I get used to it.

Anyway thanks to everyone for the advice, you have really helped and I am very pleased how well this is working for me. I am also glad that I have found this site, I think I may end up on here quite a bit....especially to show off when I get my next Hba1c ha ha ha!! :lol:

 

[Siobhan]

i'm not taking back the fact that i said it is rubbish it is my opinion (this is still a free country!?) and as for others reading it and going by it i'm not holding a gun to their head, it gets to me that people say their opinions on here then someone else will say they shouldn't say it i thought the point of these types of websites was so we could say our views, comments and experiences i'll have to monitor what i put now so i don't affend anyone!

 

[Tiger Lily]

i'm not taking back the fact that i said it is rubbish it is my opinion (this is still a free country!?) and as for others reading it and going by it i'm not holding a gun to their head, it gets to me that people say their opinions on here then someone else will say they shouldn't say it i thought the point of these types of websites was so we could say our views, comments and experiences i'll have to monitor what i put now so i don't affend anyone!

i love it......... you commented, quoted (this is still a free country!?), but you insist on bashing people who are indicating to you that Levemir is a perfectly good insulin

do you call it rubbish because you have to take it in 2 shots a day? Levemir isn't supposed to have a 24 hour activity curve to it. Lantus is 'puported' to have a 24 hour activity curve, however, in practice it lasts about 18 hours and you have to split it into 2 shots a day. It IS possible to have the basal fade of Lantus covered by a mealtime insulin shot if you time the 'wane' in it's activity profile to time with a meal.

personally, i was unable to get control using Lantus as a ONE a day shot, or as a TWICE a day shot. This problem has been resolved by switching to Levemir insulin twice a day.

if you want to talk about rubbish insulin, try out insulatard, and tell me what you think of THAT

meanwhile, try to not take it personally when someone doesn't have the SAME reaction to the SAME insulin's that you have used, none is intended, we are all just here to share our own experiences, n'est pas?

 

[Siobhan]

i didn't bash people who say its good i said it was rubbish when i used it and got told off because by saying that i might influence other people to not use it!

 

[nathansdiary]

I had not thought about the lantus aspect. People who split the dose, do you simply split it in half at 12 hour intervals? I would be intrigued to try it to see if this helps me in anyway as I have had a major irregular high late this evening which I can only pin on the lantus having failed. I had a perfectly normal veg & meat dinner with a normal dose of novorapid, this evening i have been out bowling so reasonably active. The only thing I have had is one of those pre & pro biotic little drinks but there is not enough in one of them to give me a reading of 18!

 

[fergus]

Sounds very much as if your Lantus is all used up by the evening. I would highly recommend splitting your dose as I think you'll find much greater stability in your levels.
There's no necessity to space the doses 12 hours apart since a gap of a few hours will be sufficient to ensure that there is no time during a 24 hour period in which you have no available basal insulin.
Personally, I take a dose at bedtime (5 units) and a further 3 units first thing in the morning. The slight imbalance in favour of the nightime dose helps me avoid the 'dawn phenomenon' which I no longer have.

All the best,

fergus

 

[nathansdiary]

cheers, I will give this a go and let you know what happens. I am really keen to get everything back on the right track.

 

[Nellie]

I also found lantus didn't work for 24 hours but instead of splitting it I tried to time my exercise for the period that it was on the wane, that worked quite well.
(PS thankyou for your moderating influence Nathan)

 

[Tiger Lily]

i didn't bash people who say its good i said it was rubbish when i used it and got told off because by saying that i might influence other people to not use it!

exactly............... your post was irresponsible, especially to a newbie who has been given Levemir insulin for their basal

you didn't even bother to answer my question to you "WHY did you feel Levemir was rubbish?" because you expected 24 hour coverage? because you had to use more? why?

simply stating 'it's rubbish' with NO back up certainly isn't helpful, and i believe you are trying to be helpful

how about we start at square 1 again, and begin this whole conversation over?

sound good to you?

 

[Tiger Lily]

I had not thought about the lantus aspect. People who split the dose, do you simply split it in half at 12 hour intervals? I would be intrigued to try it to see if this helps me in anyway as I have had a major irregular high late this evening which I can only pin on the lantus having failed. I had a perfectly normal veg & meat dinner with a normal dose of novorapid, this evening i have been out bowling so reasonably active. The only thing I have had is one of those pre & pro biotic little drinks but there is not enough in one of them to give me a reading of 18!

start with a 50/50 split of the Lantus and adjust it from there

do you know how to test your basal dose???

"Using Insulin" by John Walsh is very helpful

so is "Think Like a Pancrease" by Gary Schneider

"using insulin' is only available at http://www.amazon.com

Think Like a Pancreas is carried by some book stores in the UK

test, test, test and you will find out what works best for you

good luck!

 

[Siobhan]

[quote="Tiger Lily"your post was irresponsible,quote]

******** its irresponsible!

HELLO NEWBIES IF YOU ARE NEW AND HAVE BEEN GIVEN LEVEMIR I HOPE IT WORKS FOR WELL FOR YOU, me personally it didn't seem to work well with and I'm sure I'm not the first person who has been given an insulin for it not to work (well I know I'm not my brother-in-law is also diabetic and he has also experienced insulins not working) when I told my doctor it was not working with one injection a day I was not given the option to do it twice a day the doctor said "It doesn't work with everyone instead of messing around with doing it twice a day we will put you back on lantus and do it once a day, as lantus stays in the system for 24 hours" I still stand by my statement as far as I am concerned (for me, just me, little me, personally me!!) I think Levemir is a rubbish insulin. To quote my brother-in-law "I may as well being injecting water"

 

[Tiger Lily]

ahhhhhhhhhh ok, there we have it

you weren't able to make Levemir last for 24 hours

no one can

i'd say your medical advice is a bit weak

or were you very anti-injections?

NPH aka N aka insulaTURD is a rubbish insulin because
1. it MUST be taken at the SAME time every day (no sleeping in because it's the weekend)
2. it has a nasty peak at the 5 to 6 hour mark that you HAVE TO FEED immediately
3. it's absorbtion is very erratic, and some days you can go hypo EARLIER than you normally eat, whereas on other days, it doesn't absorb quick enough, you bolus some Humalog to cover the 'high bg' reading and next thing you know, the insulatard has kicked in, just later, and you are hypo gain

Lantus was like 'injecting water' for me. Levemir fixed that problem.

 

[nathansdiary]

I also found lantus didn't work for 24 hours but instead of splitting it I tried to time my exercise for the period that it was on the wane, that worked quite well.
(PS thankyou for your moderating influence Nathan)

I will maybe give this or something similar a go if splitting the dose is not for me. I have tried my first split last night. I took 20 before bed and 10 this morning and so far things seem to be ok but it will be the evening that shows up anything irregular.

 

[Siobhan]

ahhhhhhhhhh ok, there we have it

you weren't able to make Levemir last for 24 hours

no one can

i'd say your medical advice is a bit weak

or were you very anti-injections?

NPH aka N aka insulaTURD is a rubbish insulin because
1. it MUST be taken at the SAME time every day (no sleeping in because it's the weekend)
2. it has a nasty peak at the 5 to 6 hour mark that you HAVE TO FEED immediately
3. it's absorbtion is very erratic, and some days you can go hypo EARLIER than you normally eat, whereas on other days, it doesn't absorb quick enough, you bolus some Humalog to cover the 'high bg' reading and next thing you know, the insulatard has kicked in, just later, and you are hypo gain

Lantus was like 'injecting water' for me. Levemir fixed that problem.

Oh well I am SOOOOOO SORRRRRYYYY my answer wasn't as scientific as yours

 

[Tiger Lily]

Oh well I am SOOOOOO SORRRRRYYYY my answer wasn't as scientific as yours

oh, Siobhan, i think you are upset, and that hasn't been my intention at all

i truly was curious as to why you didn't like Levemir

what i have gleaned from your posts is that you don't like it because it doesn't have a 24 hour activity profile to it, as Lantus claims to have

Levemir is very good for beating 'dawn phenomenon' as it has a peak that varies depending on how many units/kg of body weight that you take............ the lower your unit/kg of body weight, the less noticeable the peak in Levemir............... i have 'double diabetes' and i need that little peak that i get from the levemir to beat my dawn phenomenon

it's great that you have adjusted your Lantus dose and are getting good results with that!

take care

 

[Pattidevans]

I'm sorry I've just checked in here again after a while. Did I say something controversial about Levemir in response to Siobhan?

I would have thought that in this forum we were all aware that some things work for some people and some work for others. Surely that's what discussion is all about?

I can't quite understand what Siobhan has taken offence to in what Tiger (?) has said. I'd have thought it was common sense. We are indeed all truly different and hallelujia to that, but actually not every medical regime will ever fit "one and all". Thankfully that gives us choices!

 

[Siobhan]

I'm sorry I've just checked in here again after a while. Did I say something controversial about Levemir in response to Siobhan?

I would have thought that in this forum we were all aware that some things work for some people and some work for others. Surely that's what discussion is all about?

I can't quite understand what Siobhan has taken offence to in what Tiger (?) has said. I'd have thought it was common sense. We are indeed all truly different and hallelujia to that, but actually not every medical regime will ever fit "one and all". Thankfully that gives us choices!

I was just pointing out that we are all diferent, it works for you not for me! That was all!! Not according to others having an opinion is irresponisble.

 

[Tiger Lily]

I was just pointing out that we are all diferent, it works for you not for me! That was all!! Not according to others having an opinion is irresponisble.

sigh......... the question was WHY do you think it's a rubbish insulin?

that's been answered

sorry to have caused you so much grief