My doctor was angry with me...

LittleGreyCat

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4,239
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
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Diet drinks - the artificial sweeteners taste vile.
Having to forswear foods I have loved all my life.
Trying to find low carb meals when eating out.
Just to add to the encouragement, treat your three issues separately in order of importance.
I would suggest sorting out the thyroid medication immediately as your highest priority.
Then I would take Metformin regularly as it has all kinds of benefits including limiting glucose release from the liver and reducing appetite.
Personally I am anti statin so I would kick that one into the long grass for the moment and concentrate on taking your other medications and on your therapy.
Best of luck!
 
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garyb888

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i had tried low carb diets, and even when i was very careful they didn't seem to help very much. but then i learned about intermittent fasting (doing it in combination with low carb, healthy fats), and the results have been amazing and very fast. check out the books recently written by Dr. Jason Fung. find them on amazon. easy to read, and he explains why and how intermittent fasting works. it's flexible, and once you get thru the first few weeks of hunger feelings it becomes pretty easy to do. you can tailor your fasting window to a manageable and tolerable size. might not work for everybody, but if i was you i'd give it a shot. good luck to you!!! i also found that appetite suppressing supplements are effective as an assist.
 

memememeiii

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Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
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Dunno. Strange question.
Thank you, ALL. Lots to think about. I’ve done my bloods and will see where I’m at now. I’ve started working out again. I’ve read the Diabetes UK advice on statins and quickly looked at the NICE Guidelines and a friend very up on Keto etc has urged me strongly to keep off. I’m certain I’ll carry on with weight loss using some form of intermittent fasting and diet with exercise. I’ve ramped up meditation in my life. Some moments I slide back. This group is amazing. All the info about how the liver is and isn’t functioning is material I need to better understand. Clearly, I’ve got metabolic syndrome going on. I’ve not stopped my thyroid meds. But I was being massively overdosed on them and should have gone in to regulate a new dose. I was being made hypothyroid. Anyway, my fault. I’m regrouping and just have been battling some low moments. All of this is helpful. I’ll re-set and think about these ideas and check in soon.

I’ve been called out by a woman who said 5 years on Keto damaged her. But I don’t see Keto as a long term solution. Yet food perplexes me totally. Moderate fat? High fat? Newcastle pretty much cuts the fat. Jeez, it’s annoying. Yes, I’m confused.
 
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Resurgam

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Damaged her what?
Sorry I assumed that the thyroid medication was for low, not high levels - but if you have been pushed into hypothyroid levels by the medication, then of course you would put on weight easily.
For me eating low carb is having the good things, so I am happy to continue with it for life - I have seen various claims about what it does - but when investigated people are eating all sorts of weird and wonderful way which are hardly low carb in a healthy way, overdoing one thing, or restricting another without reason.
 

Guzzler

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Dr. Paul Mason... I'll just leave this here.

 

torchman2

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So what in your opinion is the "underlying issue"?

An inability to oxidise glucose through aerobic glycolysis, being stuck in anaerobic glycolysis, which produces lactic acid, which then is converted back to glucose by the liver through gluconeogeneis, which in turn exacerbates the stress response due to cortisol spike. If people are eating virtually no glucose through LCHF, or Keto, then how are they maintaining BG levels of 5 and above? It's because the liver can still convert protein and fat, and lactic acid, into glucose. It's endogenous production of glucose through the liver that is the main driver of high glucose in diabetics [see quotes below]

---> This article is long but incredibly insightful: https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/25/5/807/2355272

"b. Gluconeogenesis.
A gradual and progressive increase in endogenous glucose production contributes to hyperglycemia in persons with type 2 diabetes. In the fasted state, gluconeogenesis is increased in diabetic compared with control persons and is incompletely suppressed by insulin in the postprandial state (194). Thus, increased hepatic glucose production contributes to hyperglycemia in both the fasting and postprandial states."

"Increased endogenous glucose production is a consistent feature of type 2 diabetes"
"Elevated plasma lactate levels have been demonstrated to be an independent risk factor for the development of type 2 diabetes"
"This hyperlactinemia may lead to insulin resistance by increased gluconeogenesis in liver and decreased glucose uptake in muscle (213)"

The secondary output of fermenting-metabolism (anaerobic glycolysis) is the lower output of ATP, hence why many people will complain about low energy/tiredness/poor sleep. The poor sleep is exacerbated by a lack of glycogen storage (or perhaps, glycogen release/use - need to do more reading on this) in the liver/muscles, meaning BG swings massively in the night, and is kept high not by use of glycogen, but by stress hormones converting protein and lipids into glucose when we sleep. This is the real cause of dawn phenomenon, and why people will complain of 4am (cortisol) wakenings.
-----

There are many, many, many ways to improve overall metabolic function and glucose oxidation. I could probably list 20/30, but would need to look more into it. Off the top of my head: Thyroid, potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, vitamin d, succinic acid. Away from supplements, things like regular smaller meals, reduced stress etc. I definitely don't have the final answer, I just think people on here should spend some time understanding that many, many, many pathways affect fasting blood glucose, not just the amount of Carbs you consume and insulin. I don't think this is a controversial statement: is it?

I'm just doing quick searches for publications on some of these, if I had 3/4 hours i could get 20 or more for each of these to show you i'm not just making this up, this is based on years of reading scientific literature.

THYROID:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2935391
"The oxidative metabolism of glucose is accelerated in most brain areas by treatment with high doses of T3, as is shown by the increase in HK activity, approaching normality on reducing the dose. This decrease can also by observed in the PFK activity through the effect of assayed doses of thyroxine. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3175696/ --> this one particularly good in the whole article, could have taken many quotes from it
"Thyroid hormones exert both insulin agonistic and antagonistic actions in different organs. However, this occurs in a fine balance necessary for normal glucose metabolism. Deficit or excess of thyroid hormones can break this equilibrium leading to alterations of carbohydrate metabolism. "

MAGNESIUM:
"Intracellular Mg plays a key role in regulating insulin action, insulin-mediated-glucose-uptake and vascular tone. Reduced intracellular Mg concentrations result in a defective tyrosine-kinase activity, postreceptorial impairment in insulin action and worsening of insulin resistance in diabetic patients. "
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4549665/

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/65/1/3
"Over the past decades, hypomagnesemia (serum Mg2+ <0.7 mmol/L) has been strongly associated with type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM). Patients with hypomagnesemia show a more rapid disease progression and have an increased risk for diabetes complications."

CALCIUM/VIT D:
[calcium is a very complex system, because if you don't get enough calcium, your body breaks it down from bone, so weirdly calcium cerum levels may be elevated in people who don't get much calcium, but this is from a stress response. So the correlation between serum calcium and diebetes is not as clear)
https://www.nutritionexpress.com/article+index/health+concerns/diabetes/showarticle.aspx?id=1138
"Women who consumed the most calcium were 27 percent less likely to develop type 2 diabetes than women who consumed the least. Also, men and women who consumed the most magnesium were 20 percent less likely to develop type 2 diabetes than men and women who consumed the least."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2085234/
"Vitamin D and calcium insufficiency may negatively influence glycemia while combined supplementation with both nutrients may be beneficial in optimizing glucose metabolism."

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/4/980
"we found that daily supplementation with 500 mg calcium citrate and 700 IU vitamin D3 for 3 years prevented increases in plasma glucose and insulin resistance in the subgroup of participants with IFG (impaired fasting glucose, FPG 5.6–6.9 mmol/l) at baseline "

SUCCINIC ACID
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/breakthrough-in-understanding-development-of-type-1-diabetes/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12096444
"[succinic acid] improves glycemic control, pallestesia and quality of life. "

NIACINAMIDE/NICOTINAMIDE
"Nicotinamide improves glucose metabolism "
" NAM 100 treatment affected glucose control significantly, as shown by lower levels of accumulative area under the curve during oral glucose tolerance test, serum fasting glucose, serum fasting insulin, and homeostasis model assessment of insulin resistance, and higher levels of serum adiponectin. "

POTASSIUM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3197792/
"In both analyses, investigators found a statistically significant inverse association between serum potassium and risk of incident diabetes, with lower potassium levels predicting increased risk. "
"Lower levels of potassium have been found to be associated with a higher risk of diabetes in some studies."


SODIUM:
Mixed results, but should be looked into, eg affect of sodium restriction on aldosterone
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/83/5/1552/2865396
"Dietary sodium restriction may result in a decrease in peripheral insulin sensitivity in normotensive patients with NIDDM"
"Activation of the renin-angiotensin system (RAS), which occurs during sodium restriction, might therefore be expected to result in decreased insulin sensitivity. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4731857/
Based on the amount of sodium intake, the insulin resistance increased with extremely low sodium diets (less than 40 mmol/day of sodium (≒ 0.92 g/day of sodium, 2.34 g/day of NaCl),

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/901683
"increased levels of aldosterone are independently associated with a greater risk of type 2 diabetes"
"Overall, a 100% increase in aldosterone was associated with a 2.6-mg/dL higher fasting plasma glucose, in addition to increased abnormalities in measures of glucose homeostasis"
 

bulkbiker

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19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
An inability to oxidise glucose through aerobic glycolysis, being stuck in anaerobic glycolysis, which produces lactic acid, which then is converted back to glucose by the liver through gluconeogeneis, which in turn exacerbates the stress response due to cortisol spike. If people are eating virtually no glucose through LCHF, or Keto, then how are they maintaining BG levels of 5 and above? It's because the liver can still convert protein and fat, and lactic acid, into glucose. It's endogenous production of glucose through the liver that is the main driver of high glucose in diabetics [see quotes below]

---> This article is long but incredibly insightful: https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/25/5/807/2355272

"b. Gluconeogenesis.
A gradual and progressive increase in endogenous glucose production contributes to hyperglycemia in persons with type 2 diabetes. In the fasted state, gluconeogenesis is increased in diabetic compared with control persons and is incompletely suppressed by insulin in the postprandial state (194). Thus, increased hepatic glucose production contributes to hyperglycemia in both the fasting and postprandial states."

"Increased endogenous glucose production is a consistent feature of type 2 diabetes"
"Elevated plasma lactate levels have been demonstrated to be an independent risk factor for the development of type 2 diabetes"
"This hyperlactinemia may lead to insulin resistance by increased gluconeogenesis in liver and decreased glucose uptake in muscle (213)"

The secondary output of fermenting-metabolism (anaerobic glycolysis) is the lower output of ATP, hence why many people will complain about low energy/tiredness/poor sleep. The poor sleep is exacerbated by a lack of glycogen storage (or perhaps, glycogen release/use - need to do more reading on this) in the liver/muscles, meaning BG swings massively in the night, and is kept high not by use of glycogen, but by stress hormones converting protein and lipids into glucose when we sleep. This is the real cause of dawn phenomenon, and why people will complain of 4am (cortisol) wakenings.
-----

There are many, many, many ways to improve overall metabolic function and glucose oxidation. I could probably list 20/30, but would need to look more into it. Off the top of my head: Thyroid, potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, vitamin d, succinic acid. Away from supplements, things like regular smaller meals, reduced stress etc. I definitely don't have the final answer, I just think people on here should spend some time understanding that many, many, many pathways affect fasting blood glucose, not just the amount of Carbs you consume and insulin. I don't think this is a controversial statement: is it?

I'm just doing quick searches for publications on some of these, if I had 3/4 hours i could get 20 or more for each of these to show you i'm not just making this up, this is based on years of reading scientific literature.

THYROID:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2935391
"The oxidative metabolism of glucose is accelerated in most brain areas by treatment with high doses of T3, as is shown by the increase in HK activity, approaching normality on reducing the dose. This decrease can also by observed in the PFK activity through the effect of assayed doses of thyroxine. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3175696/ --> this one particularly good in the whole article, could have taken many quotes from it
"Thyroid hormones exert both insulin agonistic and antagonistic actions in different organs. However, this occurs in a fine balance necessary for normal glucose metabolism. Deficit or excess of thyroid hormones can break this equilibrium leading to alterations of carbohydrate metabolism. "

MAGNESIUM:
"Intracellular Mg plays a key role in regulating insulin action, insulin-mediated-glucose-uptake and vascular tone. Reduced intracellular Mg concentrations result in a defective tyrosine-kinase activity, postreceptorial impairment in insulin action and worsening of insulin resistance in diabetic patients. "
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4549665/

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/65/1/3
"Over the past decades, hypomagnesemia (serum Mg2+ <0.7 mmol/L) has been strongly associated with type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM). Patients with hypomagnesemia show a more rapid disease progression and have an increased risk for diabetes complications."

CALCIUM/VIT D:
[calcium is a very complex system, because if you don't get enough calcium, your body breaks it down from bone, so weirdly calcium cerum levels may be elevated in people who don't get much calcium, but this is from a stress response. So the correlation between serum calcium and diebetes is not as clear)
https://www.nutritionexpress.com/article+index/health+concerns/diabetes/showarticle.aspx?id=1138
"Women who consumed the most calcium were 27 percent less likely to develop type 2 diabetes than women who consumed the least. Also, men and women who consumed the most magnesium were 20 percent less likely to develop type 2 diabetes than men and women who consumed the least."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2085234/
"Vitamin D and calcium insufficiency may negatively influence glycemia while combined supplementation with both nutrients may be beneficial in optimizing glucose metabolism."

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/4/980
"we found that daily supplementation with 500 mg calcium citrate and 700 IU vitamin D3 for 3 years prevented increases in plasma glucose and insulin resistance in the subgroup of participants with IFG (impaired fasting glucose, FPG 5.6–6.9 mmol/l) at baseline "

SUCCINIC ACID
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/breakthrough-in-understanding-development-of-type-1-diabetes/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12096444
"[succinic acid] improves glycemic control, pallestesia and quality of life. "

NIACINAMIDE/NICOTINAMIDE
"Nicotinamide improves glucose metabolism "
" NAM 100 treatment affected glucose control significantly, as shown by lower levels of accumulative area under the curve during oral glucose tolerance test, serum fasting glucose, serum fasting insulin, and homeostasis model assessment of insulin resistance, and higher levels of serum adiponectin. "

POTASSIUM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3197792/
"In both analyses, investigators found a statistically significant inverse association between serum potassium and risk of incident diabetes, with lower potassium levels predicting increased risk. "
"Lower levels of potassium have been found to be associated with a higher risk of diabetes in some studies."


SODIUM:
Mixed results, but should be looked into, eg affect of sodium restriction on aldosterone
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/83/5/1552/2865396
"Dietary sodium restriction may result in a decrease in peripheral insulin sensitivity in normotensive patients with NIDDM"
"Activation of the renin-angiotensin system (RAS), which occurs during sodium restriction, might therefore be expected to result in decreased insulin sensitivity. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4731857/
Based on the amount of sodium intake, the insulin resistance increased with extremely low sodium diets (less than 40 mmol/day of sodium (≒ 0.92 g/day of sodium, 2.34 g/day of NaCl),

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/901683
"increased levels of aldosterone are independently associated with a greater risk of type 2 diabetes"
"Overall, a 100% increase in aldosterone was associated with a 2.6-mg/dL higher fasting plasma glucose, in addition to increased abnormalities in measures of glucose homeostasis"
And in laymans terms?
 

torchman2

Well-Known Member
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75
And in laymans terms?

An inability to oxidise glucose. All of the things listed above improve it through improved insulin sensitivity and improved aerobic glycolysis (maybe i should call this "oxidative phosphorylation" to be specific)

Removing glucose does not solve this issue, but merely exacerbates it, since it increases fatty acid oxidation (randle cycle), lipolysis.

These are pretty simple ideas, I'm only quoting the more scientific terms just to give people ideas for which to google around.

This article i linked above is a fantastic start: https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/25/5/807/2355272

Having a thyroid panel, getting 24 hour cortisol test, aldosterone blood test, lactate etc, would help to point people in the right direction. There are other reasons to test lactate, since production of lactate is closely linked to cancer metabolism (ie cancer is a fermentation of glucose as opposed to oxidative metabolism of glucose: google Warburg effect).
 
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Guzzler

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An inability to oxidise glucose. All of the things listed above improve it through improved insulin sensitivity and improved aerobic glycolysis (maybe i should call this "oxidative phosphorylation" to be specific)

Removing glucose does not solve this issue, but merely exacerbates it, since it increases fatty acid oxidation (randle cycle), lipolysis.

These are pretty simple ideas, I'm only quoting the more scientific terms just to give people ideas for which to google around.

This article i linked above is a fantastic start: https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/25/5/807/2355272

Having a thyroid panel, getting 24 hour cortisol test, aldosterone blood test, lactate etc, would help to point people in the right direction. There are other reasons to test lactate, since production of lactate is closely linked to cancer metabolism (ie cancer is a fermentation of glucose as opposed to oxidative metabolism of glucose: google Warburg effect).

Where does does insulin resistance come into this? And nutritional ketosis?

Removing glucose, as you put it, is something that we can do in real life (as opposed to either ignoring the problem or getting so deep into biochemistry that we miss the point entirely). Hyperglycaemia is harmful as is hyperinsulinaemia, the more insulin responses the more insulin resistance the more calls to eat. We can, while fasting or in ketosis use the alternate pathways to ameliorate, to a greater or lesser degree, the effects of an insulin resistant liver.
 
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Member496333

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Anyone care to explain why oxidising fat is bad? That’s what humans are supposed to do when they’re not eating. It’s why we store excess energy as fat...so that we can use it later. Unless you’re insulin resistant through chronic exposure to dietary glucose, in which case you can only store it.

Science wars aside, no one on Earth has ever reversed insulin resistance using glucose. I’m fairly confident in asserting this as fact :D
 
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Guzzler

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Anyone care to explain why oxidising fat is bad? That’s what humans are sopppsed to do when they’re not eating. It’s why we store excess energy as fat...so that we can use it later. Unless you’re insulin resistant through chronic exposure to dietary glucose, in which case you can only store it.

Science wars aside, no one on Earth has ever reversed insulin resistance using glucose. I’m fairly confident in asserting this as fact :D

I wish I'd said it like that.
 
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bulkbiker

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Type of diabetes
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An inability to oxidise glucose. All of the things listed above improve it through improved insulin sensitivity and improved aerobic glycolysis (maybe i should call this "oxidative phosphorylation" to be specific)

Removing glucose does not solve this issue, but merely exacerbates it, since it increases fatty acid oxidation (randle cycle), lipolysis.

These are pretty simple ideas, I'm only quoting the more scientific terms just to give people ideas for which to google around.

This article i linked above is a fantastic start: https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/25/5/807/2355272

Having a thyroid panel, getting 24 hour cortisol test, aldosterone blood test, lactate etc, would help to point people in the right direction. There are other reasons to test lactate, since production of lactate is closely linked to cancer metabolism (ie cancer is a fermentation of glucose as opposed to oxidative metabolism of glucose: google Warburg effect).

So as most of us say we are glucose (carbohydrate) intolerant so we avoid taking it in.. sounds like a **** good plan to me. And seems to help to avoid cancer too if what you are saying is correct.. win win..
I would posit that removing glucose is exactly what has worked for many of us.
For many it doesn't actually matter why it works (unless we have a desire to delve deeper) but the reality that it does work helps us maintain our progress.

Edited by mod for exuberant language.
 
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torchman2

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Where does does insulin resistance come into this?

It's described a lot above. Insulin sensitivity is the reverse way of describing the relation.

All of those factors I listed above improve insulin sensitivity/glucose clearing.

Removing glucose, as you put it, is something that we can do in real life (as opposed to either ignoring the problem or getting so deep into biochemistry that we miss the point entirely).

In no way do I suggest to ignore it. The multiple factors are not to ignore it, but to tackle it head-on.

Also, this is not deep into biochemistry, this is incredibly basic stuff. You may wish the body to be simple, but that doesn't make it so. There are many posts on here about misdiagnosis of diabetes leading to years of useless treatment. If you'd rather spend 10+ years just restricting carbs as the solution, fine. But there are future implications for running on fat metabolism only. Historically, ketosis would be the final straw metabolism. Glycolysis first --> then gluconeogeneis --> then ketosis. You could not stay in gluconeogensis too long (eg in a starvation situation), because the body would destroy its muscle mass and internal organs very quickly. Ketosis has the short term effect of significantly improving mental alertness, since it would have only occurred during food shortages in the ancestral development of humans...ie it drove humans to go out and find food sources! It's a stress response, and a response to prolonged lack of food. Prolonged ketosis leads to elevated glucagon, cortisol and catecholamines. You can search google for the effect of those on long term disaease eg:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19571666
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5828215/

Carbohydrates are mainly problematic in the presence of high-fat diets (or hugely excessive calorie), this is the Randle Cycle, and the evidence is clear from many aboriginal societies that eat or ate almost exclusive starch/tuber diets for most of the year. Chocolate is blamed for the sugar content, when it's a high-fat food (most calories from fat). Potato chips are called carbs when they are high fat. Fries the same. A restaurant hamburger could have 50/60/70grams of calories from fat.

[ran out of time to reply, so had to cut it short. Interested to keep discussing, adding to this]
 

bulkbiker

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It's described a lot above. Insulin sensitivity is the reverse way of describing the relation.

All of those factors I listed above improve insulin sensitivity/glucose clearing.



In no way do I suggest to ignore it. The multiple factors are not to ignore it, but to tackle it head-on.

Also, this is not deep into biochemistry, this is incredibly basic stuff. You may wish the body to be simple, but that doesn't make it so. There are many posts on here about misdiagnosis of diabetes leading to years of useless treatment. If you'd rather spend 10+ years just restricting carbs as the solution, fine. But there are future implications for running on fat metabolism only. Historically, ketosis would be the final straw metabolism. Glycolysis first --> then gluconeogeneis --> then ketosis. You could not stay in gluconeogensis too long (eg in a starvation situation), because the body would destroy its muscle mass and internal organs very quickly. Ketosis has the short term effect of significantly improving mental alertness, since it would have only occurred during food shortages in the ancestral development of humans...ie it drove humans to go out and find food sources! It's a stress response, and a response to prolonged lack of food. Prolonged ketosis leads to elevated glucagon, cortisol and catecholamines. You can search google for the effect of those on long term disaease eg:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19571666
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5828215/

Carbohydrates are mainly problematic in the presence of high-fat diets (or hugely excessive calorie), this is the Randle Cycle, and the evidence is clear from many aboriginal societies that eat or ate almost exclusive starch/tuber diets for most of the year. Chocolate is blamed for the sugar content, when it's a high-fat food (most calories from fat). Potato chips are called carbs when they are high fat. Fries the same. A restaurant hamburger could have 50/60/70grams of calories from fat.

[ran out of time to reply, so had to cut it short. Interested to keep discussing, adding to this]

Ah I see you are of the "animal fats caused it all" school of thought.
 

torchman2

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I would posit that removing glucose is exactly what has worked for many of us.
For many it doesn't actually matter why it works (unless we have a desire to delve deeper) but the reality that it does work helps us maintain our progress.

Definitely, lower BG is better than high. Not debating that. It's not a solution though.

It's like saying "I used to be intolerant of exercise, but now I'm not, because I no longer exercise"

If you could take some simple supplements, and avoid mixed high fat/high carb diets, and oxidise glucose, you'd be in a much better position. The brain's primary energy source is glucose for a reason: 100s of thousands of years of evolution created this.

And seems to help to avoid cancer too if what you are saying is correct.. win win..

No, because if you are not properly oxidising glucose, then you are actually creating the cancer metabolism. Even without exogenous glucose, your body still makes it endogenously through stress hormones, and it will then be oxidised in fermentation (cancer) metabolism, while also producing less ATP (energy), so you will be more tired also. This is why tiredness is a hallmark of cancer: less ATP per glucose.
 

bulkbiker

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If you could take some simple supplements, and avoid mixed high fat/high carb diets, and oxidise glucose, you'd be in a much better position.

A much better position for what exactly?
I take no supplements. I eat a pretty much zero carb diet.
I have little to no glucose to oxidise.
 

torchman2

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Ah I see you are of the "animal fats caused it all" school of thought.

No, that's called a strawman argument, where you make up what I said.

I eat plenty of animal fats, and limit Polyunsaturated, since PUFA is most damaging on metabolism. Animal fats are great. But high carbs are problematic in high fat situation, (RANDLE CYCLE, if i need to keep repeating myself), especially polyunsaturated fats (liquid oils). The standard american diet is too high in fat, especially from plant oils. By high, I'm talking over 100grams of fat.
 

bulkbiker

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No, that's called a strawman argument, where you make up what I said.

I eat plenty of animal fats, and limit Polyunsaturated, since PUFA is most damaging on metabolism. Animal fats are great. But high carbs are problematic in high fat situation, (RANDLE CYCLE, if i need to keep repeating myself), especially polyunsaturated fats (liquid oils). The standard american diet is too high in fat, especially from plant oils. By high, I'm talking over 100grams of fat.

So you are agreeing that its best to treat T2 with a low carb ketogenic diet avoiding seed oils?
because that's not what it sounded like you were saying in your previous postings?
 

Guzzler

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To conflate nutritional ketosis with being in starvation mode is a mistake, in my opinion. You may be interested in the results from the Virta studies and the research into Alzheimer's Disease and the promising early studies, and the clinical application of ketogenic diets as an adjunct to some (but not all) cancer treatments.