Statins. What happens if I don't take them?

[Sanober]

I'm 34, recently diagnosed and my GP recommended today that I consider Statins under NICE guidelines.

My cholestrol is 4.3, my BMI is 23, I'm considered normal weight. I exercise 3 - 6 hours a week and don't eat starchy foods and rarely eat sweet things/high saturated fat things etc.

He was very helpful and told me not to rush to make a decision. He gave me lots of information to read up on as well.

Why am I being told I should consider this drug??? What happens if I don't take it at all?

I've decided I'm not going to take it (a) side affects (b) age, I'm going to have to take this drug for a very long time...

I've got a follow up appointment with the Diabetologist in August so will talk to him.

I've not had any medication prescribed yet for my Diabetes as it's considered 'good control' on the basis of HBAc1 results so far and they don't want to cause problems whilst I'm awaiting various other test results.

 

[anniep]

Statins are very much an individual choice. There is some evidence that they reduce the risk of cardiovascular events for diabetics, even if they have normal cholesterol. But some people find the side effects too much.

I have decided to go for them, as Diabetes does increase your risks from things like heart attacks, and my fathers side of the family does have a risk of these anyway, so statins seemed sensible for me.

 

[dorcas61]

I too have decided to give them a try, as my cholesterol, always below 4 until diagnosed with Diabetes, is now, a year after diagnosis, 6.5
As I am keeping my blood sugar levels at around 7.5/7.7, by diet alone, and as my bp is around 120/70, I decided to take the statins and hopefully bring the cholesterol too within reasonable limits and hopefully avoid the risks of heart-related problems.
I am aware of the potential side effects of Simvastatin, if necessary will go back to my GP and ask for a different statin.

 

[Unbeliever]

It is a good idea to ry statins while you are not on any other meds as any side effects will obviously
be as a result of taking the stains, It can be very confusing if you are taking various meds.

 

[dorcas61]

It is a good idea to ry statins while you are not on any other meds as any side effects will obviously
be as a result of taking the stains, It can be very confusing if you are taking various meds.

Good point, thank you!

 

[Ka-Mon]

I am on different meds for different medical conditions that I can't stop taking and when I was prescribed Simvastatin I immediately started having side effects. To find out if the side effects was in fact from the statins, I experimented by stopping them and felt better straight away. Just to make sure, I then took them again for a couple of days and the side effects returned. I went back to my GP and although I could see in his facial expression that he was not very pleased that I experimented without consulting him, he changed the Simvastatin to Rosuvastatin, I've had no side effects since.

I have an excellent GP who listens and cares but I would still not advice anyone to experiment without consulting their GPs on any meds.

 

[Dillinger]

Hi,

I'm not convinced by statin use, I used to take them but got muscle cramps and other difficulties (including occasional problems swallowing :shock: :evil: ) and so have stopped taking them.

They will lower your cholesterol levels, but your levels are lower than the national average anyway. Your GP will be rewarded for getting you to take statins so they do have an inducement to suggest you do. Statins will slightly reduce your risk of cardiovascular events, but not to the extent that getting excellent HbA1c's would (i.e. <6.5).

Statins are huge business and so, alas as always, you have to follow the money; side effects are routinely ignored or discounted by doctors because the literature doesn't focus on them, and the benefits are shamelessly massaged by drug companies. For instance did you know that if you are a woman and you take a statin your life expectancy will not increase by 1 day :!: . Women may be very slightly less likely to die from a heart attack, but they won't live any longer at all. It's like saying "Do you want to take a pill with a number of side effects (that we won't acknowledge) that will mean that you won't get hit by a red bus, but a blue bus?".

Here is a little article denouncing statin use http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/statin.pdf

If you are really interested google Dr. Malcolm Kendrick who wrote a very convincing book about why statins are just smoke and mirrors (The Great Cholesterol Con), there are many other anti-statin books too. I found this link by Kendrick which speaks for itself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8SSCNaaDcE

This is another very interesting bit of research on heart attacks in Type 2's - note the statement on 'lipid lowering drugs' - "Forty-seven percent of those who had heart attacks and 47% of those who did not have heart attacks were on lipid lowering drugs, i.e. statins. These drugs apparently made no difference."

http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2009 ... s-and.html

But you wouldn't hear about any of this from your GP as they pretty much all believe that statins are the magic bullets in the 'war on heart disease'.

Dillinger

 

[Dougie22]

I very much agree with Dillinger's comments above but it's a personal choice.

At 4.3 you are already very low.

I'm at 8.0 and refusing them. (I've also read Kendrick's book but have given them a try and had serious side effects - joint pain and mental fuzziness).

I find it very difficult to disagree with my (overbearing) GP on this, given the national guidelines she is working to and my extremely high reading but, so far, I've stuck to my guns.

It just seems to me (at age 57), that taking any drug for the rest of my life (maybe 30 years) is a big risk in itself which can only be justified if you believe the benefits will outweigh these risks. The NHS currently believes they do and I don't. If they are right, I may come to regret it. Who knows?

 

[noblehead]

Sanobar,

It's been discussed many times on the forum why some gp's insist on patients taking statins when there cholesterol levels are low and others don't seem bothered. I like you have low cholesterol (4.1) yet my gp has never mentioned statins which surprises me as my father had heart bypass surgery in his 50's, in my own favour my fathers lifestyle was far removed from my own as he smoked up until his bypass operation and ate a very high fat diet which undoubtedly led to his heart disease.

My oldest brother following a medical at work was put on statins with a cholesterol level of 9, since this time he has lowered it into the 3's and doesn't seem to suffer any side-effects except when he first went on them when he was lethargic for the first few week. I don't know what I would do in your circumstances, I've often wondered whether I would take them myself if and when my gp suggests it, the amount of people who have bad experiences on statins seem to outweigh those that don't on forums such as this, although I am unsure if this is due to those that tolerate statins are less inclined to mention the experience than those that do, anyway good luck in whatever you decide and do come back and let us know!

Nigel

 

[Dougie22]

Sanobar,

Just another thought.

If you live in Scotland, the official recommendations used by the NHS are the SIGN guidelines.

The Sign 116 (diabetes treatment) has this recommendation to doctors:

"Lipid-lowering drug therapy with simvastatin 40 mg or atorvastatin 10 mg is
recommended for primary prevention in patients with type 2 diabetes aged >40 years
regardless of baseline cholesterol."

Note the last four words.

 

[alaska]

my fathers lifestyle was far removed from my own as he smoked up until his bypass operation and ate a very high fat diet which undoubtedly led to his heart disease.

Hi Nigel

I'm interested to know what constitutes a high fat diet -are we talking low carbs and high fat or moderate carbs and high fat?

Would we be talking a diet of fairly regular pizza / chips for example?

I'm asking only to ascertain your definition of high fat rather than trying to probe into your father's diet -which would be a bit over the line.

Feel free to ignore this question if you prefer

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Dr Kendrick, high fat, lipids etc quack quack quack here we go again :lol:

 

[donnellysdogs]

It also depends on what your hdl and ldl figures are, not necessarily the total cholesterol reading....

 

[candyfloss]

I cant remember if my doctor even told me what my cholesterol levels were when statins were first prescribed (at that time I didnt know what was good or bad anyway and what lipid profiles were) together with aspirin and pills for hypertension. I thought I was in imminent danger of a stroke or something if I didnt take them. Well I did get some funny reactions to all this medication suddenly entering my body and following a lot of research dropped the statins, aspirin and all but one of the pills for hypertension. I adopted a far healthier diet and increased my exercise. My doctor didnt have any issues with this maybe because I was often one step ahead of her by having some private tests done, checking blood pressure regularly at home and monitoring improvements in lipids etc. BMI was (just) ok too.

I think its good your doctor is giving you the opportunity to think about statins and make your own decision. You dont seem in dire need of starting them.

Just to add, I found the cholesterol lowering margarines and yoghurt drinks effective in lowering cholesterol. I had tests done before and after taking them and there was a marked improvement.
I dont take the margarine now as its quite expensive, substituting it for own brand olive spread but do take 1 100g cholesterol lowering yoghurt drink per day. I know Asda, Morrisons and Tesco all do their own brands and are considerably cheaper than Benecol.

 

[donnellysdogs]

There is also quite a bit of study about low cholesterol and the impact it has on the brain's functions...lowering too much can according to some research cause our brains to be less healthy-although keeping the blood healthy.

I cam of statins, as i believed simvastatin badly affected me. However, my levels have now returned to above 5, so I have now gone on to a different statin. I however been told to watch out and report any further malfunctions in my brain and body to my GP immediately......

 

[noblehead]

my fathers lifestyle was far removed from my own as he smoked up until his bypass operation and ate a very high fat diet which undoubtedly led to his heart disease.

Hi Nigel

I'm interested to know what constitutes a high fat diet -are we talking low carbs and high fat or moderate carbs and high fat?

Would we be talking a diet of fairly regular pizza / chips for example?

I'm asking only to ascertain your definition of high fat rather than trying to probe into your father's diet -which would be a bit over the line.

Feel free to ignore this question if you prefer

My father was from the old school and believed a fried breakfast was must to start the day with, grilling was never a option and everything would be fried so his diet was rather high in saturated fat, I on the other hand rarely eat fry-ups and when I do I try to grill as much as possible to cut down on the fat content. Pizza was never on the menu for him but chips he would eat once a week, loved his cheese and all dairy would be full fat and would never dream of opting for low-fat options, this together with his smoking was mentioned by his cardiologist as the cause of his heart disease.

My brother-in-law had a heart attack back in February at the age of 50, he also smoked and ate a very high fat diet according to his cardiologist, since this time he has stopped smoking and is now eating a much healthier diet as advised by the cardiac nurse, he feels much healthier all round and has lost 3 stone as a result, hopefully this will be enough to prevent future incidences.

Hope the above is helpful!

Nigel

 

[Sanober]

Sanobar,

Just another thought.

If you live in Scotland, the official recommendations used by the NHS are the SIGN guidelines.

The Sign 116 (diabetes treatment) has this recommendation to doctors:

"Lipid-lowering drug therapy with simvastatin 40 mg or atorvastatin 10 mg is
recommended for primary prevention in patients with type 2 diabetes aged >40 years
regardless of baseline cholesterol."

Note the last four words.

Dougie22 - I had no idea about SIGN - been looking at NICE all this time so thanks very much for this info.

I'm very dubious about taking a drug that's recommended for >40 when I'm a few years yet. I'm going to decline their offer until I hit the 40 at least.

 

[Sanober]

It also depends on what your hdl and ldl figures are, not necessarily the total cholesterol reading....

Donnellysdogs - I've just checked my readings for my last checkup in April at the Diabetologist.

(measured in mmol/L)
Chol 4.30 Range <5.00
Triglycerides 0.80 Range <2.30
HDL Chol 1.46 Range >100
LDL Chol (no result, just blank and no range shown either)
Chol/HDL ratio 2.9 (no range)

I have not a clue which of these is the most important ones to keep under control to be honest. Your guidance is appreciated.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Sanober your total cholesterol of 4.3 mmol/L is pretty good, I believe that NICE now recommend that a diabetic should ideally be under 4.0 but read that knowing that NICE will presume that diabetics are not well controlled as most aren't.

The last full lipid profile I had was in Feb last year and since then I have just been given HbA1c, total cholesterol and creatinine profiles so I really will have to ask for another full lipid profile next time I see nursey. My last total cholesterol was 4.6 mmol/L and I am not at all worried by that figure.

Here are my last full profile figures with the in range profiles listed as well.

Cholesterol............3.9...............range.....3.7 to 5.2
Triglyceride...........0.5...............range.....0.0 to 2.3
HDL.....................1.5...............range.....should be greater than 0.9
LDL.....................2.2...............range.....0.0 to 4.0

I notice thast your numbers are not that different to mine Sanober

I personally would not even consider a statin unless I was over 5.2 and even then I would do a lot of research before making a decision, at least your doctor has given you the choice and I would say take as much time as you need to reach your decision, If you trust your doctor, why not ask for his input in helping to make your decision, ask what he would do in your position, I have done this with my doctor, the swine flu vaccine springs to mind, and I value his advice but I do realise that not everyone has a doctor that they trust in this way, although yours sounds OK too.

I would also say wait until you have your latest A1c and if that is continuing to drop then that would be another reason not to take the statin IMHO, but I would add that I have no medical knowledge so can only offer you advice based anecdotal evidence.

As for the high or low fat issue I can only add that until there is concrete scientific evidence that a high fat diet is beneficial then I will stick to the 'not worrying about the fat I eat diet' that I am on at the moment but I certainly would not consider upping my fat intake whilst the views of every cardiologist in this country and the rest of the world says that certain fats are a contributory factor to heart disease. Despite what a few maverick outspoken doctors may say.

 

[anniep]

My doctor didn't pressure me at all, which I think helps the decision, she asked me to consider it and gave me information wto take away and read at my leisure and a chance to investaigate on the web. My cholesterol was (and interestingly stil is) in the low 4's, it is very consistent which was not considered high until the diabetes diagnosis.

As I said, because of family history I decided it made sense for me to try them. I have had problems with cramps but and with the help of my doctor have tried different statins and different strengths. I have settled on 20mg simvastatin and quinine for cramps, which is working for the moment, but my doctor is sensible and has said to me it is my choice and to consider my quality of life and would support me if I decided to stop taking them.

As for fat, like carbs I don't actually count quantities, so am not sure where I lie on the spectrum of low - high. I control my carbs by not eating starchy carbs, and while I don't look at the amount of fat I eat, I do watch the type of fat, I never eat anything 'muckied anout with' am very careful of anything labled 'low fat' as it is likely to be the wrong sort of fat or have too much sugar in it.

I eat extra virgin olive oil and flora margarine, I am veggie so no meat fat, but plenty of cheese (which is a baddie, but my staple food) and eggs - which interestingly are no longer seen as a baddies

from the british heart foundations website

In the past there have been restrictions on the advised number of eggs people should eat in a week. This was because we thought cholesterol in our bodies was directly caused by cholesterol in our food.

As research has developed, however, we now know that much of the excess cholesterol in our bodies is actually produced by eating too much saturated fat rather than eating too much cholesterol.
Cholesterol culprits

So while too many fried eggs and cheesy omelettes may risk raising your cholesterol, it’s actually the added fat from the frying or the addition of cheese, which is high in saturated fat, that’s the problem. Poached, boiled or scrambled eggs (without butter) are all absolutely fine and there are no restrictions on how many we should eat as part of a balanced diet.

While the average Brit only eats about 2 to 3 eggs a week, our intake of saturated fat still exceeds the recommended maximums

The main cholesterol culprits are things like dairy products including full fat cheese or whole milk, fats like butter, lard and ghee, fatty cuts of meat or meat products and the skin on chicken. Products like biscuits, cakes and pastries can also be high in saturated fat too.

So statins are a thing to make up your own mind, having weighed up your own risks factors and life.