T2, vegetarian and slimming world...how on earth is this going to work?

[Spl@]

Well you certainly have a challenge.

The meal list you posted is really bad carb wise.

Quorn can be up to 25% carb too depending on what it's pretending to be.

Red/white lentils is a pointless difference. Like spilling red or white paint. Effect is the same.

Swapping the rice out for cauliflower or brocoli rice could be a start. Add a lot more nuts into the diet.
I understand double cooking spuds and rice can lower their carb effect too.

There are options. Adding peanut and almond flour to foods will boost protein and flavor.

Peanut butter is great for sweetening meals. It's mostly fat and protein too. I buy kilo pots and it barely lasts a fortnight.

All said. We're here. To help.

Even if you just want to moan.

I'm in the meat camp too. In fact I could dump veg and go full carnivore love the stuff, if it wasn't for the family.

Slimming world may need to be tempered slightly. My parents are SW devotees and cannot understand, (while they accept) what I eat.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I’d rather not eat chocolate at all than go dark. I really don’t like it. I’m a milk girl all the way. It all just seems so daunting at the moments. It feels like I am going to have to change the way I eat so drastically.

Slimming world really works for me for weight loss. I remember old red and green days too. I lost 4.5 stone in 6 months on green days back in 2010.

I really cannot and will not ever turn to meat and I don’t know if Quorn works in the same way when doing LCHF.

All I do know is at 38 years old and at 19 stone with one big baby loss behind me I need to lose the weight at the same time as getting this condition under control....and quickly. Slimming world is the only thing that has ever worked for getting weight off. I’m just very confused at the moment.

I do appreciate all the messages and advice. I will be taking into account things people have said. The only firm non negotiable at the moment is meat. I will not eat it. Ever.

Some people have mentioned monitors to check levels. Any advice on the best type to purchase?

Just keep in mind the weight is a *symptom* of your diabetes, not the cause of it. And it is a condition you really need to get under control. The complications are severe and possibly lethal. Low carb gets your bloodsugars in the normal range and makes you lose weight. Slimming World can't offer the same. Sweetheart, the weight isn't the problem... Your bloodsugarlevels are. Fix those, you fix everything. And you *can* do it without resorting to eating meat. No-one here is going to try to force you to eat anything with a face. (And if they are, ignore 'em. It is your life, your choice.)
Jo
Ps; look into meters whose teststrips don't cost an arm and a leg. That's where the costs are.

 

[merrymunky]

Well you certainly have a challenge.

The meal list you posted is really bad carb wise.

Quorn can be up to 25% carb too depending on what it's pretending to be.

Red/white lentils is a pointless difference. Like spilling red or white paint. Effect is the same.

Swapping the rice out for cauliflower or brocoli rice could be a start. Add a lot more nuts into the diet.
I understand double cooking spuds and rice can lower their carb effect too.

There are options. Adding peanut and almond flour to foods will boost protein and flavor.

Peanut butter is great for sweetening meals. It's mostly fat and protein too. I buy kilo pots and it barely lasts a fortnight.

All said. We're here. To help.

Even if you just want to moan.

I'm in the meat camp too. In fact I could dump veg and go full carnivore love the stuff, if it wasn't for the family.

Slimming world may need to be tempered slightly. My parents are SW devotees and cannot understand, (while they accept) what I eat.

This is why I am in a complete quandary.

The meals list I posted is fabulous for slimming world and I lose weight really well on it. It’s obviously not the best for diabetes control though. If I take them all away I am left with virtually nothing to eat. I won’t eat meat. I have to eat something though. So Quorn it has to be.

The carbs make up the staples in my diet. I take them away I am left with vegetables and fruit. Even fruit makes me nervous because of the natural sugars. I can’t survive on a plate of vegetables for life. There had to be some compromise somewhere.

 

[LooperCat]

@merrymunky - firstly, I’m so sorry for your loss, that must have been devastating. Sending a big hug your way

I’m type one, so there may be irrelevant stuff to follow, but could be useful to _someone_

I did SW for years as a mostly veggie on the old red/green system. I’d do green days in the week, and have a carnivore red day on the weekend (not even slightly suggesting you do that, it’s just what I did) - and of course it was pretty much unlimited carbs. I lost six stone, but my diabetes control was next to impossible. I was taking huge doses of insulin and having enormous spikes and hypos, to the point where I didn’t take enough and ended up in intensive care with DKA a couple of times. Every week I lost weight, the consultant and class would tell me how great I was looking, and none of us realised that by not taking enough insulin to cover the huge amounts of carbs (and sugar - those Muller light yoghurts they push as a healthy treat are packed with it), I was becoming dangerously ill. My HbA1c was in three figures, I think over 130 at one point - but I was losing weight, so it had to be a good thing, right? The group support aspect was great as it gives accountability, but I felt the pushing of sugar laden foods was detrimental to anyone’s health, let alone someone with metabolic problems who can’t process it.

I’m pescatarian now, as I’ve become allergic to meat and cow dairy, and follow a low carb way of eating a la Dr Bernstein (I’d heartily recommend his book, it’s relevant to all types of diabetes - https://amzn.to/2HR4Yy5 ) - so apart from fish, which I’m aware you don’t eat, I get my protein from plain Quorn (ie not coated with anything and cooked with plenty of spice to give it flavour), tofu, eggs (I recall you don’t eat them, but others reading might), some nuts, goat and sheep milk cheeses, and if I’m running really low on protein for a day, I’ll make a shake with Pulsin pea protein powder and almond milk. Some of the frozen/chilled meat substitutes are really good too, if you can stomach them - made with soya or pea protein usually. If a dish absolutely needs beans, I use the cartons of black beans from Sainsbury’s as they’re the lowest carb ones I could find, at 8% carb. For root veg, I use turnips, celeriac and swedes for making mash, chips, wedges etc, and if you cook radishes really low and slow, they lose their bitterness and become like new potatoes.

If you’re on Facebook, look up a group called “vegan keto made simple” - there’s some amazing ideas of how to eat low carb without using any animal products at all, most of the low carb/keto advice and pages are very meat-centric, and sadly make a sport of taunting those of us who don’t eat meat.

 

[Providence 62]

Are you okay with cream @merrymunky ?

 

[Member496333]

When all is said and done, the nuts & bolts of it are that if you continue to eat a high carbohydrate diet then your situation will just get worse. It’s not about losing weight, it’s about becoming metabolically healthy. Weight loss will follow. I’m sorry but that’s the reality of the situation you’re in. You’re going to have to find a dietary solution that drastically cuts the carbs, because diabetes doesn’t do deals with best intentions.

I hope you don’t take offence at my comments. Good luck and continued best wishes

 

[DCUKMod]

@merrymunky - From the details you listed above for your eating plans, there are some challenges there, without a doubt, but there is no reason why you should eat meat if that is not your choice to do so.

There is a vegetarian area of the forum, and also a low carb vegetarian area too: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/vegetarian-diet-forum.71/ It could make sense to have a good meander around in there.

As I say, if you are feeling very befuddled the Low Carb Programm is a structured, 10 or 12 week programm walking you through things, reducing the foods that are usuallt diabetes rocket fuel. The programm gives you access to support, suggested menus, recipes, with suitable swaps in, and there is a vegetarian option.

I'm not a salesperson for the LCP, but it has delivered fabulous results for many in the past, and I'm assuming by your earlier posts that you don't want to be hanging around tinkering around the edges, in terms of getting yourself into a safe place for retrying for conception.

Just take your time. Breathe a bit.

 

[merrymunky]

When all is said and done, the nuts & bolts of it are that if you continue to eat a high carbohydrate diet then your situation will just get worse. It’s not about losing weight, it’s about becoming metabolically healthy. Weight loss will follow. I’m sorry but that’s the reality of the situation you’re in. You’re going to have to find a dietary solution that drastically cuts the carbs, because diabetes doesn’t do deals with best intentions.

I hope you don’t take offence at my comments. Good luck and continued best wishes

I don’t take offence so please don’t worry. I’m not trying to be difficult either but I just know there are so many challenges ahead.

It’s very important to me to get my weight down because at 38 years old and 19 stone I have to shift this weight in order to stand a chance at conceiving a baby again.

I just don’t see how I can cut out some of these carbs and Quorn as well as the obvious sugars in my diet without being utterly miserable. I am a foody sadly. My emotions interlink with food unfortunately. I can cut down on some of them but they form such a massive part of my diet it is going to be so hard to just let them go at once.

I’m seeing that even beans etc are not great? There is so little left for me to eat. Literally vegetables.

 

[Mbaker]

When I was diagnosed, I would have done anything to add more time to my existence. As a meat eater, I would have gone Vegan if that was the only option, having watched diabetes reversal videos on this methodology. Your food list most Josephine / Jo Bloggs would say is heart healthy, only around a third of persons are insulin sensitive enough to cope with this glucose load those options produce (based on number of US persons who are pre-diabetic or diabetic).

You seem to like structure and meal plans. I am with the Mod, £30.00 could be worse spent, this will give you route 1 variations designed for your condition and eating choice. The Diet Doctor programme is free for a month (not sure if it caters for Vegetarianism), but might be worth a look.

My personal advice is to do whatever is required for the outcomes you desire, perhaps base this on your blood work results. At this time your decision is one of your head, but if your pancreas, liver and other vital support systems could talk what would they suggest. I am not directly suggesting turning to meat / fish, I don't have that right, nor wish to, but if your health does not improve and you try all options, you may be faced with stark choices.

 

[Bluetit1802]

It’s very important to me to get my weight down because at 38 years old and 19 stone I have to shift this weight in order to stand a chance at conceiving a baby again.

I do understand and sympathise with your problem, but have you also considered that high blood sugar levels are never a good idea when conceiving and carrying a baby. Have a read about pregnancy and high blood sugar levels, it may make you realise that weight comes secondary to high BS levels.

As mentioned by some above, obesity is a symptom of high insulin levels (insulin is a fat carrying hormone). High insulin levels are caused in the main by a high carb intake. The higher your carb intake is the higher your circulating insulin levels will be, the more weight you are likely to gain and the more insulin resistant you will become. High insulin resistance causes even higher circulating insulin as the pancreas attempts to control the glucose by secreting more and more insulin. And not only weight, but other health issues such as inflammation, damage to the eyes, damage to the nerves and damage to other organs in the body.

Do have a good browse round the vegetarian section of this forum, and seriously consider joining the low carb programme. There is a good number of vegetarians on this forum.

 

[Member496333]

I don’t take offence so please don’t worry. I’m not trying to be difficult either but I just know there are so many challenges ahead.

It’s very important to me to get my weight down because at 38 years old and 19 stone I have to shift this weight in order to stand a chance at conceiving a baby again.

I just don’t see how I can cut out some of these carbs and Quorn as well as the obvious sugars in my diet without being utterly miserable. I am a foody sadly. My emotions interlink with food unfortunately. I can cut down on some of them but they form such a massive part of my diet it is going to be so hard to just let them go at once.

I’m seeing that even beans etc are not great? There is so little left for me to eat. Literally vegetables.

Nah. You got this. If vegans can do low-carb then anyone can. It will take time to adjust and find what suits you, but most us here have played that game. Of course it’s going to be more difficult as a vegetarian but it’s still possible. How do I know this? Because your motivation is strong, and low carbing is going to hugely improve your chances of reaching your mission objective. Slimming World is not.

One thing is for certain, you are in the right place to learn more. No question is too trivial, and you’ll always find people happy to help in any way they can. Onwards!

 

[Flora123]

Nope. I am a devout vegetarian. I haven’t eaten any meat since I was 12. I never liked meat. I cannot eat it. The smell, taste, texture, the fact it is a dead animal. I just cannot do it. It took me years to even eat Quorn products and even some of those are too meat like for me so I can’t eat them.

I really think I am going to struggle to find anything suitable to eat. I’m going to see what the diabetes clinic have to say. But essentially, all the carbs I have been consuming make up staples of almost every meal I eat.

Typical meal choices for me on a standard day for me would usually be:

Breakfast:
Fruit salad with a fat free vanilla yoghurt
A small bowl of cereal with skimmed milk.
At weekends I will have 2 slices of whole meal or grain bread with peanut butter as a treat.

Lunch:
Jacket potato with cheese and salad,
Cheese salad
Mixed beans and couscous
Leftover red lentil pasta (usually with peppers, onions, sweetcorn and a passata sauce) with cheese
New potatoes and salad
Ryvita with soft cheese topped with peppers and cucumber
Home made vegetable soup (with carrots, peppers, onions and parsnip)

Tea:
Quorn chilli with rice (although I sometimes use butternut squash spaghetti instead)
Red lentil Pasta as above topped with grated cheese
Vegetarian quorn roast with veggies and roast potatoes
Quorn sausages with potatoes and baked beans
Vegetarian curry made with quorn pieces, chickpeas and vegetables etc with rice
Jacket potatoes with salads or new potatoes with salad

Basically carbs in most meals. If I take them out I am left with very little to eat. I’m sure I will work it out eventually.

Fair enough. Just thought I’d ask as vegetarians often have different levels of commitment. I’m absolutely convinced my problems started with my being vegetarian as my carb intake naturally increased, despite it being unrefined and home cooked healthy bean and lentil dishes.

If you can somehow drastically cut down the high carb meals the weight will fall off. Once you get over the carb withdrawals then you will feel great which makes up for the limited diet. Livlife low carb bread is really good and whole earth do a very low carb peanut butter with sunflower pumpkin and flax seeds.

Avocados are great and full of good fats. You could do avocado and tomato on low carb toast for breakfast, salad with avocado, cheese and seeds for lunch with mayo and roasted celeriac will eventually taste as good as potato. Good luck x

 

[Providence 62]

cauliflower rice/couscous is brilliant, courgette 'tagliatelle', almond/coconut vegan bread - i love tofu! Have you had a look at www.headbangerskitchen.com ? He has quite a few vegan/vegetarian recipes on there - lots of fun videos to show you what to do.

As you say it's a challenge finding low carb vegetarian food, but it's out there.

Are you testing your blood yet?

P
xxx

 

[merrymunky]

When I was diagnosed, I would have done anything to add more time to my existence. As a meat eater, I would have gone Vegan if that was the only option, having watched diabetes reversal videos on this methodology. Your food list most Josephine / Jo Bloggs would say is heart healthy, only around a third of persons are insulin sensitive enough to cope with this glucose load those options produce (based on number of US persons who are pre-diabetic or diabetic).

You seem to like structure and meal plans. I am with the Mod, £30.00 could be worse spent, this will give you route 1 variations designed for your condition and eating choice. The Diet Doctor programme is free for a month (not sure if it caters for Vegetarianism), but might be worth a look.

My personal advice is to do whatever is required for the outcomes you desire, perhaps base this on your blood work results. At this time your decision is one of your head, but if your pancreas, liver and other vital support systems could talk what would they suggest. I am not directly suggesting turning to meat / fish, I don't have that right, nor wish to, but if your health does not improve and you try all options, you may be faced with stark choices.

With the greatest respect, I will not ever be turning to meat or fish as part of my diet. I will have to find a way around it. As a pretty much life long vegetarian (I only ever ate chicken, sausages and tuna to any degree till I was 12) for many reasons, not just because I am against using animals for food, I cannot ever get past that and no amount of gentle persuasion will lead me to that choice. I do understand people’s reasons for suggesting it but it is a firm no, sorry.

I am very routine based when it comes to food I will admit. I am just struggling with the notion of having to cut out almost everything I eat regularly. It’s bad enough that refined sugars are a no no, especially when you are overweight partly for that very reason. But to have to cut down or cut out almost everything that has been in my healthy list for my whole adult life seems impossible at this early stage in my journey.

I will definitely be checking out some of the resources mentioned, plus I have the diabetic education course sessions to attend yet, which start next week. Until then I am going to have to just try to get by.

 

[Rachox]

Hi merrymunky, I can’t comment on the vegetarian aspect of your quandary, but I have lost over six stone by keeping my carbs under 50g/day. I dropped the carbs to get my HbA1c down to non diabetic levels and the weight loss was just a happy side effect.
I urge you to find a way to low carb that suits you.
Someone up the thread mentioned Diet Doctor, here’s a link to their vegetarian section:
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/recipes/vegetarian

 

[merrymunky]

I do understand and sympathise with your problem, but have you also considered that high blood sugar levels are never a good idea when conceiving and carrying a baby. Have a read about pregnancy and high blood sugar levels, it may make you realise that weight comes secondary to high BS levels.

I do know this yes and am currently battling with myself over the loss of our baby in November at 16 weeks gestation. At that point I had no idea I was diabetic. I was eating a slimming world diet and losing weight. Doing everything I thought was good for my body and my baby. Now I am in a position where I feel like being undiagnosed T2 is the very cause of his death and believe me I hate myself for it. I am carrying around grief and guilt yet everyone tells me not to blame myself as I didn’t know. How can I not though? I honestly thought being on slimming world and filling the plan was going me good.

We tried for 10 years for my baby and all the doctors and professionals told me to lose weight. I received no help from them beyond that. No fertility treatments or anything. Literally left in limbo for ten years so I was doing the only thing I thought would help. Reducing my weight to boost my fertility as the weight caused my cycles to be very irregular since the age of 24. Sure enough I lost some weight and fell pregnant naturally. Then he died, I went through the trauma of delivering him and leaving hospital childless. Then this diagnosis has been throwing in my face and completely battered me yet again.

To top it all off I’m discovering that all the ‘healthy’ food I have been eating for years has helped to lead to this diagnosis and I am feeling lost and stuck.

LCHF seems to go against everything I have learned on SW. there are very few foods I can actually eat on it from what I can see.

I genuinely don’t mean to sound defensive and am aware that’s how it may come across. I’m just so confused and worried how to move forward.

 

[merrymunky]

Nah. You got this. If vegans can do low-carb then anyone can. It will take time to adjust and find what suits you, but most us here have played that game. Of course it’s going to be more difficult as a vegetarian but it’s still possible. How do I know this? Because your motivation is strong, and low carbing is going to hugely improve your chances of reaching your mission objective. Slimming World is not.

One thing is for certain, you are in the right place to learn more. No question is too trivial, and you’ll always find people happy to help in any way they can. Onwards!

Thank you. I’m conscious that I probably sound quite defeatist at the moment.

I’m in a fragile emotional state as it is following the trauma of the last two months, without this on top of it all.

You don’t get to 19 stone by eating well! I love ‘healthy’ food. Healthy if you don’t have diabetes that is, my usual SW foods that worked so well for weight loss and allowed me to have very small measure portions of my crisps and chocolate as treats when needed. However, like most obese people I like the junk too. I love bread, I love carbs. I would go bread crazy for weeks on end sometimes.
But on SW I only have it once a week and I make sure it is wholemeal. All these other carbs that are so good on SE like the pasta, rice and potatoes that account for many of my meals are off limits or at least need to be drastically reduced. Hearing that Quorn also contains these carbs etc. It just seems cruel. I feel like this is ow my punishment for not being able to stay Diabetes free.

If I don’t enjoy my food I will be a total depressed misery guys. Luckily I love fruits and vegetables. I can work them into all meals. I don’t know if I will be satisfied though.

 

[DCUKMod]

Thank you. I’m conscious that I probably sound quite defeatist at the moment.

I’m in a fragile emotional state as it is following the trauma of the last two months, without this on top of it all.

You don’t get to 19 stone by eating well! I love ‘healthy’ food. Healthy if you don’t have diabetes that is, my usual SW foods that worked so well for weight loss and allowed me to have very small measure portions of my crisps and chocolate as treats when needed. However, like most obese people I like the junk too. I love bread, I love carbs. I would go bread crazy for weeks on end sometimes.
But on SW I only have it once a week and I make sure it is wholemeal. All these other carbs that are so good on SE like the pasta, rice and potatoes that account for many of my meals are off limits or at least need to be drastically reduced. Hearing that Quorn also contains these carbs etc. It just seems cruel. I feel like this is ow my punishment for not being able to stay Diabetes free.

If I don’t enjoy my food I will be a total depressed misery guys. Luckily I love fruits and vegetables. I can work them into all meals. I don’t know if I will be satisfied though.

Merrymunky - Have you had a look in the Low Carb Vegetarian area of the forum I posted a link to? Looking in there will give you ideas for alternatives that don't include meat, and are lower carb.

 

[merrymunky]

Fair enough. Just thought I’d ask as vegetarians often have different levels of commitment. I’m absolutely convinced my problems started with my being vegetarian as my carb intake naturally increased, despite it being unrefined and home cooked healthy bean and lentil dishes.

If you can somehow drastically cut down the high carb meals the weight will fall off. Once you get over the carb withdrawals then you will feel great which makes up for the limited diet. Livlife low carb bread is really good and whole earth do a very low carb peanut butter with sunflower pumpkin and flax seeds.

Avocados are great and full of good fats. You could do avocado and tomato on low carb toast for breakfast, salad with avocado, cheese and seeds for lunch with mayo and roasted celeriac will eventually taste as good as potato. Good luck x

Thank you. Here’s where people start rolling their eyes at me...I’m a fussy eater. Along with being veggie, I don’t eat eggs (on their own anyway...eggiest I’ll go is quiche), mushrooms, aubergine or avocado. I haven’t tried avocado again recently but I have never liked it in the past. Trying to get my head round the contradictions between Slimming World and diabetes friendly foods. Avocado isn’t good on SW.

I know I will find the balance in time and find the diet that works best for me but at the moment my head is fighting with contradictions and a complete 180 on what I now should be eating as a vegetarian in order get my levels down.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Luckily I love fruits and vegetables. I can work them into all meals. I don’t know if I will be satisfied though.

Breakfast:
Fruit salad with a fat free vanilla yoghurt
A small bowl of cereal with skimmed milk.
At weekends I will have 2 slices of whole meal or grain bread with peanut butter as a treat.

Full fat (absolutely no low fat varieties), plenty of dairy in the form of butter, cream, cheese, Greek yogurts, nuts, avocado, mayonnaise, olive oil, coupled with extra protein should make sure you are full and satisfied.

For breakfast, if you abandon the fruit salad and have berries instead, along with a full fat Greek yogurt and maybe a coffee with cream and I would like to bet you are more than satisfied right through to lunch time without the cereal and milk. Why not just give it a try? That would be one meal sorted.

You have only just been diagnosed and are bound to be in a state of shock and self blame. Believe me, most of us were when first diagnosed. It takes a while to come to terms with it. Take some deep breaths and some time to read, read, read. We are all here to help and support you so ask as many questions as you like.