Injections in toilets

[donnamum]

Many of you know I have had a bit of a battle over the last few months with finding suitable location for daughters lunch time injection. Well today we had some progress on the injections in toilets debate. So I thought I would share it with you.


Dear Donna

Thank you for your email to Jane Hutt, I have been asked to respond.

The Assembly Government is currently working with the Welsh Local Government Association to review the arrangements for providing appropriate toilet facilities in schools. This review will include an assessment of the need to issue guidance on good practice and standards. Your email raises an important issue and I will ensure that it is considered in our work.

Rob Rogers

Head of Corporare Services Division
Yr Adran Plant, Addysg, Dysgu Gydol Oes a Sgiliau (APADGOS)/ Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning & Skills (DCELLS)

 

[Jay3109]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in any earlier threads but I wonder if there might be a Disability Discrimination issue here. It cannot be right that you are being forced to give your child injections in a toilet (hardly the most hygienic place I would have thought) and that it is a reasonable adjustment for the school to provide a safe environment for you and your child. Do they not have a 'sick bay'?'

 

[donnamum]

About three weeks before end of term after advice from diabetes uk and intervention by GP we were given an alternative location .

I hope that by raising the issue on higher level other parents won't have the same difficulties that we have encountered.

Thanx

Donnamum

 

[iHs]

Hi Donnamum

I have not read all of your posts regarding your daughter but was wondering if you have ever considered using twice daily insulin doses instead of MDI? This would do away for the need to find a toilet at lunchtime as your daughter's injection would have been done before breakfast and the next injection would be before evening meal.

Many people believe that twice daily insulin doesnt give so good control as MDI but with eating a set amount of carbohydrate throughout the day, it can give fairly good control. This would definately make life easier for you as you wouldnt need to keep going to the school lunchtime to do an injection. Your daughter would also probably be much happier as there would be only 2 injections instead of 4. A lot of the verbal bullying would also stop I should think. I am all for MDI being used on teenagers of 14yrs upwards but not any earlier. Twice daily is much better.

 

[donnamum]

Our diebetic team just said it needed to be four a day and I went along with it. Daughter has a big appetite. Infact they have discussed her injections increasing to 5 as she eats a lot just before bed.
When diagnosed her H1bc was 12.4 , her last on H1bc was 8.4 which is still far to high so maybe that why?

I will definalty ask the quesion. Like most people feeling pinch at the moment, driving to and from school so much is costing so much in petrol.

If it continues I will have to start selling test stips on the black market.

 

[iHs]

I understand what you say but beleive me, there are alternatives to MDI. Humalog Mix 25/75 is a fairly good starting point ( I did fairly well on this for years, with an a1c of 7.1). As a backup when more carb is eaten at a specific mealtime such as lunch or mid afternoon, you could always use some Humalog or Apidra on its own. Humalog Mix 50/50 is also available.

Its not right that diabetes centres do this to people. Do have a chat next time with a dsn or consultant as its no good that your daughter is not at all happy. Twice daily is ok with a bit of self discipline and making a compromise over the amount of carb that is eaten at specific mealtimes (you have to graze lol) but like I said, you can always cheat a bit and just bolus a few units of fast acting insulin as a backup to the morning injection.

 

[lionrampant]

Aha, someone else who advocates a mixed-insulin regime for kids! I'm not a lone nut after all...

Anyway, that e-mail would actually annoy me. It sounds like they want to improve the toilets, not get her a way to do her injections elsewhere.

 

[Fallenover]

I spent my whole secondary school with diabetes as i was diagonsed in year 7, the first few years i was made to do my injections in the toliet, where i completely felt like an out cast, after i complained they said i could take my insulin in the sick room, which i thought was a great idea.. at first, when i went in there was a younger student who was pretty unwell, and as i brought my needles and bits out she went green and asked if i was a doctor and begged me not to give her an injection, i tried to explain i wasnt a doctor, but she had just started coming to the school and was obviously scared. she then threw up everywhere!! i felt pretty bad, and didnt get the chance to take my insulin. in the end i gave up and stopped eating at school, so because i dont eat breakfast. i wouldnt get any food until i got home, which made school very hard for a while, but i refused to do it in the toliets, i dont see by having to take insulin to keep me alive and well that i should be forced to go into the loos. i hope you have better luck with your daughter, because it made me feel ashamed that i had diabetes. Rachael x

 

[donnamum]

Dear fallenover This is exactly why I am taking on this fight. Nobody should be made to feel this way.

I hope that things are better for you now.

 

[Fallenover]

your exactly right donnamum, noone should feel like that, luckily i've left school now, but from what i understand its still the same there, as i know other diabetics that are still in the same school. to be honest i've found the same thing at the work place, im unemployed at the moment but in past jobs i was told to take my injections in the toilets. unfortuitly its not just the school systems that need a change its the whole outlook on most of the population. which unless you are directly or indirectly affected by diabetes then the outlook isnt going to change! i wish you luck on your quest to straighten out the education system...Good luck xx

 

[LadyJ]

I would never EVER suggest putting a child onto twice a day injections.

For the love of god this is a child - why should she have a "set amount of carbs" at certain points throughout the day.

MDI will give her flexibility and far superior control in the long run. It is the modern approach - stick with it, it's for the best.

 

[Katharine]

Steven has tested and injected in the canteen or classrooms and no one has turned a hair.

We do the same in restaurants and anywhere really. (Ok not on a rollercoast or while he was white water rafting or actually abseiling).

Has anyone specifically forbidden her do to it at the table or desk? Surely if her needle disposal is sound there can be no objection. Steven just leaves the needles in the pens and we sort it all out when we get home.

Why not ask her to do it all at the table at home, then McDonalds (or similar), then once she has it off pat and is confident just DO it where she likes at school.

Sometimes asking permission for things just leads to all sorts of silly objections. Steven has NEVER been challenged about his diabetes self care procedures. I don't think people even notice.

 

[donnamum]

It was all done very offically. We had to meet with diabetic nurse headteacher, LEA, special needs co-ordinator and health and safety officer before they would agree to her return .It as the bloody nurse who said the toilets were fine. We now have a timeslot when I can us photocopier room. They would prefer it if she didn't check blood in class but as her class is upstairs and it would mean going downstairs along corridor to room alone and as she dosn't tend to feel hypo until 2.8 I feel it is a bit risky.

 

[Fallenover]

I think it depends on the school, i tried taking my injection in class a few times, and i always had someone starring at me, one guy even complained about it, and i ended up getting an hours detention. i never actually turned up to it, but thats not really the point. donnamum... go to all your meetings and keep pushing them, specially if she doesnt always feel her hypo's til that late, and walking up and down stairs, maybe you can ask about her going to a teachers office if its closer?? As for taking injections in public, ive never been able to do it, my older brother is T1 aswell and he does it in public, its all personal prefrence, i can take my insulin infront of family and friends, but publicly scares the life out of me.

 

[hanadr]

The toiltets are NOT the place for injections. I don't know of any schools without some kind of "medical room" Much more suitable. If you have the confidence of Katharine's son, then at the table in the dining room is fine. I know some teachers are idiots. It's inevitable with so many thousands of them, but on the whole it's a profession for reasonable and child centred people. they shouldn't be making things more difficult.

 

[Katharine]

Well Donnasmum and Fallenover,

I am gobsmacked at the terrible and ignorant behaviour of the teachers in the schools. What is their problem?

1. Kids need to be able to know what their bs are. If they are too low they could collapse imminently. It is dangerous for them to delay testing if they think they are low and if they then do this in a toilet in class time they may be unconcious before they are found.
2. High blood sugars lead to poor memory, tiredness and difficulty concentrating. Simply put they won't learn ! Surely that's the point of going to school.
3. Kids who are low may need assistance from the teacher.
4. It is impossible for another kids to get HIV, Hep C and so forth unless they are actually jabbed by the tester device lancet. This is in a specially sheathed device and is not dangerous. The lancets and needles can be kept in place till the kid changes them at home. There is no need for used needles to be about.

If they continue to object I think you should go higher up the hierarchy till you get this sorted.

If you can fnd out their objections post them and perhaps we can thing of some sound replies for them. It sounds to me like they are trying to bully your kids into a less safe and convenient way of managing their diabetes.

 

[LittleSue]

It's little wonder some diabetic kids have "issues" about their condition and hide it from their friends, teachers seem to be forcing them to be ashamed of it.

Medical rooms aren't ideal for hypos unless there's someone else present. In high school I could've collapsed in the medical room and not been found unless the key was missed. Instead I kept Lucozade in the secretary's office (alongside their sugar supply, which I was authorised to use if Lucozade ran out). They barely noticed me come and go, but hopefully would notice if I collapsed all over their floor.

 

[lionrampant]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again - legal action.

You could do them under human rights violations if nothing else.

 

[tigger]

I have had diabetes since the age of 3 and throughout school I was on 2 injections a day. I hated injecting in public and am still not keen although am prepared to do it in certain restaurants depending on the table layout.

There are definite control advantages over a simpler injection regime depending on the individual.

Your daughter has to take a decision over which she prefers dispensing with the injection and a bit more self control with eating or eating what she wants but having the injections in school. If you put the choice to her it may be psychologically beneficial to her as it gives her freedom of choice and independence.

I haven't read any of your previous threads so I don't know how old your daughter is or how long she's had diabetes, but perhaps she might like to start doing her own injections? I started at the age of 6 by practicing on an orange. Then at least you wouldn't have to go to her school each day.