Ancestors in famines and carbohydrate sensitivity

[Providence 62]

Had a chat with my doctor today about my blood glucose figures and menu lists. He thinks that I may be very sensitive to carbohydrates.

Apparently this often appears in families where the previous generations have lived through famine. I have seen postings about this sort of thing online but have never really looked into it.

Has anyone seen anything about this? I would be very interested to see some science on the subject.

I come from an Irish family who stayed in Ireland throughout the famine and after. Been talking with a friend whose family are from Bengal, the seat of the huge Indian famines. His family tree is dotted with people with diabetes and he has a scarily high cholesterol count.

Thanks in advance.


P

 

[jjraak]

Fascinating thought and i'd be most interested in any outcomes posting etc..

will keep an eye on this @Providence 62 ..cheers for posting up

 

[Geordie_P]

It is interesting, and there may be something to it. Mind you, places that go through famines tend to have large rural/ working populations, and diets tend to be starch heavy in such places as carbs are cheap and good for manual labour etc, so maybe it's something to do with a culture of starchy staples leading to diabetes and vulnerability to specific crop failures.

 

[KK123]

I would not be surprised. We all tolerate things differently and no doubt that is down to evolution and ancestry, where people lived and what they grew up eating coupled with genetics.

 

[JohnEGreen]

How far back do you go there have been hundreds of famines in history the famine in England in 1235 being one such over 20,000 died in London alone. The kiloyear event starting 2200 BC caused famine and the collapse of civilization globally.
And in the 14th century the great famine killed millions throughout Europe.

So most of every one living today has had ancestors who lived through famine at some point in history.

 

[jjraak]

How far back do you go there have been hundreds of famines in history the famine in England in 1235 being one such over 20,000 died in London alone. The kiloyear event starting 2200 BC caused famine and the collapse of civilization globally.
And in the 14th century the great famine killed millions throughout Europe.

So most of every one living today has had ancestors who lived through famine at some point in history.

Good point...and just musing here, but if evolution makes sense , and protection needs to be passed down, i wonder if that protection is weakened if not removed a few generations down the line..as the next gen adapts to the current environment and adds it's own variation of future proofing the species with it's own version of the protection IT thinks should be passed on ?
with maybe the protection being held back for EMERGENCIES.
i see this as something like the black death, other disease, perhaps, where many succumb, yet some seem to miraculously remain largely unaffected.

 

[Prem51]

It's sometimes referred to as the 'thrift gene'. People originating from Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa typically have proportionately more body fat, which helped their ancestors survive famine. In effect their bodies could store fat during food abundance to be used during times of food scarcity. Presumably those who couldn't do this would have died so the thrift gene would have been passed on to survivors.
But now with food becoming more available and increasing 'Western' diets it means more visceral fat and increasing levels of Type 2 diabetes.

 

[Guzzler]

I would like to know what cholesterol level you deem 'scarily high'? Are you speaking to a Total Cholesterol number?

 

[jjraak]

It's sometimes referred to as the 'thrift gene'. People originating from Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa typically have proportionately more body fat, which helped their ancestors survive famine. In effect they could store fat during food abundance to be used during times of food scarcity.
But now with food becoming more available and increasing 'Western' diets it means more visceral fat and increasing levels of Type 2 diabetes.

and that makes sense, and sort of underlines that those sensible adaptations nature/evolution gives us, that used to keep us in balance.. can be thwarted and may even become malevolent, when our life circumstances change rapidly

 

[Providence 62]

I would like to know what cholesterol level you deem 'scarily high'? Are you speaking to a Total Cholesterol number?

Hiya Guzzler,

His cholesterol level is 8.

P

 

[lindisfel]

Hi,
I suggest this has something to do with epigenetics. When this countries wealthy used slavery to support their vast incomes, the working class in the north and Midlands were worked to death in the industrial revolution and very poorly fed. The intervention of real Christian gents as with slavery made the situation somewhat better.
Many were poorly fed in the slump in the 1930's, I remember someone telling me he took turnips out a farmer's field to eat he was so hundry as a youth in South Lincolnshire.

I would imagine the gene pool will be diluted in the reverse direction eventually as epigenetics shunts us in a different direction.
regards
Derek

Had a chat with my doctor today about my blood glucose figures and menu lists. He thinks that I may be very sensitive to carbohydrates.

Apparently this often appears in families where the previous generations have lived through famine. I have seen postings about this sort of thing online but have never really looked into it.

Has anyone seen anything about this? I would be very interested to see some science on the subject.

I come from an Irish family who stayed in Ireland throughout the famine and after. Been talking with a friend whose family are from Bengal, the seat of the huge Indian famines. His family tree is dotted with people with diabetes and he has a scarily high cholesterol count.

Thanks in advance.


P

 

[Chook]

Hi,
I suggest this has something to do with epigenetics. When this countries wealthy used slavery to support their vast incomes, the working class in the north and Midlands were worked to death in the industrial revolution and very poorly fed. The intervention of real Christian gents as with slavery made the situation somewhat better.
Many were poorly fed in the slump in the 1930's, I remember someone telling me he took turnips out a farmer's field to eat he was so hundry as a youth in South Lincolnshire.

I would imagine the gene pool will be diluted in the reverse direction eventually as epigenetics shunts us in a different direction.
regards
Derek

Thank you for this - I learned something new today.

 

[jjraak]

Agree @Chook
Everydays a school day, on the DCUK

 

[PenguinMum]

As I posted in another thread earlier Ireland is supposed to have more Coeliac per capita than other Western countries. My late mum was one as were her three siblings all now in their 80s. They were all dx in middle age after years of digestion issues. Bread and potatoes were often the only food people had to eat.. My father born 1933 came from a poor family, a baby born every year (until his mother died in what was her menopause) and the small bit of meat daily was reserved for the breadwinner when he came back from drinking pints of the black stuff. No wonder the natives have a carb issue. Of course modern Ireland is very different with youngsters eating pizza, pasta and chips with abandon or else they’re Vegan.

 

[PenguinMum]

PS. Should have mentioned my mum was dxd T2 in the last year of her life but prob attributable to taking steroids long term. I think carb intolerance can be linked with many diseases really.

 

[rmz80]

Perhaps this report will be of interest. Particulary ethnic breakdown on page 6

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/resources-s3/2017-11/diabetes-key-stats-guidelines-april2014.pdf

 

[LittleGreyCat]

For context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_to_the_British_Army_during_the_First_World_War

"Almost 40 percent of the volunteers were rejected for medical reasons. Malnutrition was widespread in society, working class 15‑year‑olds had a mean height of 160 cm, while the upper class was 171 cm."

 

[AloeSvea]

My understanding of insulin resistance based type two diabetes is that it is always epigenetic - which is just a fancy way of saying there is always a relationship between genes (in this instance - fat storage, body types, resilience in the face of food insecurity and famines) and the environment (in this instance - the food environment!). Very early on post my own diagnosis I read a scientific paper saying exactly that, and I have always thought it, well, completely obvious ever after! Without the excess carbs, even with the body type (you know - the tendency to belly fat thing), there is no type two. This is why our genes have not changed much over time (evolution is a pretty slow process), but the rates of T2D have risen enormously. It's the food environment - not our genes, that has changed hugely.

 

[jjraak]

interesting point, @AloeSvea

on a not too dissimilar note, i am just reading Dr jason Fung's excellent book the Diabetes Code.

and of interest because wifes cousin had gastric bypass surgery was section
"Why surgery is NOT the usually the right solution "

the element that T2D disappeared within weeks of the op,(95% of patients)
leading to the understanding that FOOD was the issue re IR, high Glucose etc.

However there was STILL 5% who did not reverse their T2D.

That makes me wonder, as i said to my wife.

I don't remember anyone having diabetes when i was younger, no family member, no friends of family.
and mum and dad discussed many who had cancers etc...so i don't believe that was filtered out.

Yet at work, when i mentioned it, 2 others came over to say they had T2D..so in a group of 8..3 of us had it..
coincidence, perhaps,

but i am leaning more and more to the theory that the 5% are GENETICALLY disposed to becoming T2D..but for the other 95%..this epidemic, of obesity that seems to be the precursor for the tsunami of T2D....
i am starting to believe IS food generated.

Simply poor diets, led by the fact the food choices of GOOD, QUALITY foods is diminishing, as sugars are pumped into more and more items foisted upon us...which we are of course at liberty NOT to buy..but so many will,
add in the rise of single dinners, convenience foods & and the ubiquitous takeaway/home delivery of foods cooked elsewhere,

it all starts to link up, at least in my mind.

interesting point you raised..cheers for posting.