high carb low carb I am confused

[GINNYFLY]

HI CARB LO CARB –COMPLETELY CONFUSED

Hello Everyone
I was diagnosed T2 in March this year. I have just had my first HBA1C which was 5.9. I get average BS reading of around 5.5 before meals and 6.9 - 2 hours after my meal.
When I saw my dietician for the first time she told me to increase my carbs as I had experienced several mild hypos (3.2 – 3.8) Since then I have only had 1 hypo(3.9)

Since reading the posts on the forum I see that the subject of carb consumption is much more complicated than I thought. I was advised to take starch with all my meals. So I eat cereal and toast at breakfast –( I used to eat fresh fruit and low fat yoghurt for breakfast but by lunchtime my bs often dropped into the 3s – causing me to feel faint and dizzy. Also I got a blinding headache and needed to sleep for a couple of hours)
I have bread sandwiches or a baked potato at lunchtime and either pasta, rice or potatoes at suppertime. I try to keep my protein lowish – usually 1 serving of meat or fish a day – I eat lots of vegetables and salads + some fruit – ½ banana or soft fruit on cereal and a fresh fruit salad with my evening meal.
I feel fine and I am gradually losing weight – about 2lbs a month. I like the controlled energy that I get from a fairly high carb diet.

So why is there such a down on carbs :?: As I understand it, sugar acts a bit like rocket fuel– an intense boost of energy that is quickly used up – (thanks to my meds) while the carbs offer a slow release of sugar - that sees me through to the next meal.
.
Since increasing the carbs I have not suffered from a hypo – so I assume my diet is right for me – but the posts I have read here – suggest otherwise. – I would really appreciate the thoughts and advice of more experienced diabetics.

All the best
Gill

 

[sugarless sue]

.
Since increasing the carbs I have not suffered from a hypo – so I assume my diet is right for me – but the posts I have read here – suggest otherwise. – I would really appreciate the thoughts and advice of more experienced diabetics.

All the best
Gill

You are right, your diet is working for you and that is the important thing !

Many Diabetics cannot tolerate the amount of carbs that you eat so they give their own opinions based on their experiences which can be confusing.

Diabetes is a condition where we have difficulty coping with carbs so it does make sense to limit the amount we eat. It is the amount that people can tolerate that is different in each one of us.

We each have to find the diet that works for us and you obviously have....as they say...if it ain't broke don't fix it ! You levels indicate that you are doing well without changing anything.

It is however always interesting to read how others cope and control their Diabetes and it reinforces that often quoted phrase on the forum that we are all different.

 

[IanD]

HI CARB LO CARB –COMPLETELY CONFUSED

Hello Everyone
I was diagnosed T2 in March this year. I have just had my first HBA1C which was 5.9. I get average BS reading of around 5.5 before meals and 6.9 - 2 hours after my meal.
When I saw my dietician for the first time she told me to increase my carbs as I had experienced several mild hypos (3.2 – 3.8) Since then I have only had 1 hypo(3.9)

HbA1c below 6 is what most of us are aiming for. I'm surprised you were diagnosed as diabetic, (though I see from other posts that you were diagnosed at BG=45!) With your b'fast it is possible you were undereating & becoming hypo. It would also appear from other posts that you were afraid of aggravating IBS & so restricted your diet.

You could have increased your diet with substantial food - cheese, bacon & egg, etc, & avoided hypos that way, but would that have aggravated IBS?


Since reading the posts on the forum I see that the subject of carb consumption is much more complicated than I thought. I was advised to take starch with all my meals. So I eat cereal and toast at breakfast –( I used to eat fresh fruit and low fat yoghurt for breakfast but by lunchtime my bs often dropped into the 3s – causing me to feel faint and dizzy. Also I got a blinding headache and needed to sleep for a couple of hours)

You obviously have specific digestive problems that restrict your diet. I solved the problem of crippling leg muscle pains by drastically reducing carbs, while increasing meat, cheese, nuts & veg. I never get near a hypo. I can play tennis all afternoon & just drink water. My BG during play ranges between 7.5 & 6.5, just drinking water - no bananas nor energy drinks. On a quiet afternoon, my BG would drop to about 5.5. My body maintains my BG during physical activity.

I have bread sandwiches or a baked potato at lunchtime and either pasta, rice or potatoes at suppertime. I try to keep my protein lowish – usually 1 serving of meat or fish a day – I eat lots of vegetables and salads + some fruit – ½ banana or soft fruit on cereal and a fresh fruit salad with my evening meal.

I used to follow the high carb diet recommended by dietitians, but when complications set in (muscle neuropathy & the beginning of retinopathy) I found this forum & reduced the carbs. I could not now eat what you eat.

I feel fine and I am gradually losing weight – about 2lbs a month. I like the controlled energy that I get from a fairly high carb diet.

You are doing well & have adjusted your diet for your condition. I get controlled energy from fat reserves.

So why is there such a down on carbs :?: As I understand it, sugar acts a bit like rocket fuel– an intense boost of energy that is quickly used up – (thanks to my meds) while the carbs offer a slow release of sugar - that sees me through to the next meal.

Many of us cannot eat such large amounts of carb. The basic problem of diabetics is that we cannot deal with the blood glucose produced in carb metabolism. Rather than BG of 7-8 after meals, mine would rise to around 15 with a carb meal. I used to feel hungry after a cereal b'fast. I don't after a b'fast of a 'porridge' made from ground almonds, oat bran, wheat germ & soya milk.

.
Since increasing the carbs I have not suffered from a hypo – so I assume my diet is right for me – but the posts I have read here – suggest otherwise. – I would really appreciate the thoughts and advice of more experienced diabetics.

All the best
Gill

I hope you don't experience what I was warned about & happened - diabetes is progressive. After 8 years, I got to the point of fearing I was becoming disabled - I was in such muscle pain that it took 5 minutes to get out of bed. Two years on, & a reduced carb diet, I can play tennis with the youngsters, & hold my own (at 71.)

Obviously you are doing the right thing for you at present. You could try experimenting with your diet to see the effects of adding protein & fatty foods as reduced carb may become advisable.

 

[noblehead]

GINNFLY,

Sounds like what you are doing is working a treat for you, which just proves that we are indeed 'all different' and there isn't one diet or method that is suitable to all. Pleased your hypo's have stopped, they can be a pain in the ....!

Best wishes

Nigel

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Gill it sounds like you are doing great. And therefore the saying "If it aint broke don't fix it" springs to mind.

Congratulations

 

[catherinecherub]

Hi Gill,

If you had a car that was reliable and suited your needs would you change it if someone came along and said, "That car is not right for you and I advise you to get rid of it and buy the one that I recommend?"
It is obvious that you are doing the right thing to manage your diabetes, (NOTE YOUR DIABETES) and that is why there is no one size fits all.

Congratulations on your HBA1c, you are doing really well.

Catherine.

 

[GINNYFLY]

Thank you Sue, Noblehead Sid and Catherine cherub for your reasurring replies. I really appreciate it and Iget the idea - it is as Sid says - if its working dont fix it.

TO IAN D
A very big thank you for your long and careful post - I really appreciated all your comments. Like you I am very surprised to learn I am diabetic. If it was not for the very high readings I had when first diagnosed I would dispute the diagnosis. But with an undiagnosed BS of 45 - i suppose there is no doubt?

The first month my levels stayed in the double figures and I was thrilled when I got under 10. Since then I rarely go above 7. i still use a little sugar - on my cereal and in my coffee - and still enjoy a sugar fest when my family come over for Sunday tea. Its very strange.

When I was first diagnosed I was on max doses of metformin and glicazide but I am now on a reduced dosage of 2*750 MG of Glucophage - the slow release metformin meds. I no longer take glicazide as my doc thought that was part of the reason for the hypos.
I wass told in hospital to increase my exercise - so as I feel so much more energetic I am back to gardening, cycling and the occasional swim when I can fit it in. At the moment the garden takes up a lot of time and energy

If the BS levels stay as low as they are now - I am considering trying a diet/exercise regime with no meds. Be interested in your thoughts.
Thank you again everyone I do enjoy belonging to this forum
Gill

 

[canuck1950]

GINNYFLY - when you have type 2 diabetes you have lost the ability to normally metabolize carbohydrates. You have two choices: you can cut them out of your diet, or you can take meds. If you try to do both, you will run into trouble. Hypos are an example of that. If you are trying to get off the meds by diet and exercise, most of the benefit will come from diet if the diet involves significantly cutting the carbs. There are books that can help you. I recommend the newest Atkins book (by Westman, Phinney and Volek) and that diabetics stay on the induction phase indefinitely. Good luck.

 

[Ka-Mon]

GINNYFLY - when you have type 2 diabetes you have lost the ability to normally metabolize carbohydrates. You have two choices: you can cut them out of your diet, or you can take meds. If you try to do both, you will run into trouble. Hypos are an example of that. If you are trying to get off the meds by diet and exercise, most of the benefit will come from diet if the diet involves significantly cutting the carbs. There are books that can help you. I recommend the newest Atkins book (by Westman, Phinney and Volek) and that diabetics stay on the induction phase indefinitely. Good luck.

I don't know if you realised it or not but the post you replied to is a year old and GINNFLY has not visited the forum since 20th July 2010, just thought I'd point that out to you.

Personally, I would hate that but that's just me. I like a variety of food in my diet otherwise it can get pretty boring. I also don't like the taste of fat and always cut the fat off before cooking/frying. I tried it a couple of times but I nearly vomited and hat to spit it out again. I don't like eating things like octopus/eal or horse meat either but there are people who love it and eat it by the ton, just a taste thing I guess.

 

[Administrator]

@Canuck1950 - please follow forum policy; you can discuss extreme low carbing but promotion of it isn't allowed. For more information, please see the forum policy and ethos at the top of every board.

 

[Hobnoblin]

@Canuck1950 - please follow forum policy; you can discuss extreme low carbing but promotion of it isn't allowed. For more information, please see the forum policy and ethos at the top of every board.

Hi Benedict, can't find any reference to the promotion of low carb in the rules above.

What's the difference between discussing low carb and promoting it? I presume I can tell people about my success using low carb? But then surely that's promoting it? You could argue that any discussion of low carb that puts any kind of positive spin on it is 'promoting' it?

Could you clarify?

As to the OP, seems you are doing a great job, keep doing what you are doing!!!

Your next Hba1c will give you an indication of how well you are doing though. Personally, as a type 2 myself, I aim for Hba1cs in the 5s. There's no way I could eat what you are eating and get away with it.

I often run at 3.9 or so and don't feel 'hypo' at all, it's just what you are used to. We are all different after all, but then I take no meds whatsoever, this clearly complicates things if you do.

 

[viviennem]

Canuck posted:

You have two choices: you can cut them out of your diet, or you can take meds. If you try to do both, you will run into trouble.

Could you explain this a bit further, please, Canuck? I take 3 x 500mg Metformin daily, at my own request, as well as following what is basically the Atkins diet at a level (at present) of between 50g and 70g of carbohydrate. I have had to up my carbohydrate levels at present - I have lumbar spinal stenosis (LSS) for which I am taking untold amounts of prescribed painkillers, all of which cause constipation, so I've added a couple of slices of organic wholemeal bread and 50g of high-fibre granola, daily, to the basic Aktins induction diet.

I have had great success with Atkins previously (80lbs in 14 months on Induction). While I had an intital fast weight loss, and corresponding lowering of BGs, HbA1c and BP, in the first months after diabetes diagnosis, I very quickly stalled, and asked for the metformin because I thought it might well be insulin resistance that was slowing the weight loss. Apart from the LSS, I am extremely healthy.

We've discussed fat before, Ka-mon :lol: , and will still have to agree to differ! I'm fortunate that I can eat it, and I don't find Atkins Induction in the slightest bit boring! Mind you, I even like chicken salad for breakfast - strange woman!

Infinite Variety in Infinite Combination :wink:

Viv 8)

 

[catherinecherub]

I am confused too Viv, but for a different reason. Quite an ambiguous statement that does not take anyone else's management into consideration. Other methods producing good results with no medication/some medication are seemingly not possible either. :roll: :roll:

 

[Ka-Mon]

We've discussed fat before, Ka-mon :lol: , and will still have to agree to differ! I'm fortunate that I can eat it, and I don't find Atkins Induction in the slightest bit boring! Mind you, I even like chicken salad for breakfast - strange woman!

Infinite Variety in Infinite Combination :wink:

Viv 8)

Yes we have discussed it before viv but the good Doctor might not know and why the "Infinite induction" sounds very boring for me. You are after all restricted as to what you can eat and hence why I find it boring.

I prefer chicken sandwich for breakfast and loads of salad with my lunch/dinner.
As the good Doctor hasn't (intentionally or unintentionally) replied to my questions in this and another thread re salt intake, I am left with no option but to take his advice with a "pinch of salt" (pan definitely intended) :lol: :lol:

 

[phoenix]

Viv, re medication and low carb.
You might also like to listen to this podcast from Dr Bernstein.
He quite clearly says he prescribes medication for people alongside his diet and that only those that have what he seems to term very mild diabetes can manage diabetes without some form of drugs.
http://instantteleseminar.com/?eventid=19381665

 

[viviennem]

Hi Phoenix

Yes, I've read Bernstein - he was the reason I knew to ask for Metformin in the first place! I'm not confused about Canuck's statement, I'd just like to see it expanded a bit so that I know what he's talking about.

It's possible that there are other diabetes medications out there that could cause problems with a very low carb diet (or vice versa). For instance, if a person on insulin suddenly went very low carb, and didn't understand enough to adjust their dose, there could be great problems. Could any of the other meds cause problems in this situation? I don't know, I only take Metformin. I'd like to know more.

It's very easy for someone who knows a subject very well, to forget that others don't, and to miss out the simplest basics in any argument because they are so simple and basic. I learned that lesson in the late 1960s, trying to teach people to use banking accounting machines in the pre-computer days. I've never forgotten it. Always assume you have to start at the very basic level, if you don't know your audience. That's one of the reasons why this site is so good. It caters for every level of knowledge.

Viv 8)

 

[canuck1950]

For people with conditions associated with insulin resistance, a low-carb diet is an alternative to the current approach of high-carb plus meds. I don't see how making this statement is construed as "promoting" a low-carb diet in violation of the forum rules - please clarify.

Metformin is the drug with the lowest risk of hypoglycemia. It reduces glucose output from the liver and improves glucose uptake in the periphery. If you are reducing carbs while taking metformin your chances of having a problem of hypos is not great. Most people, however, should be able to get off their metformin or significantly reduce it. The other drugs that stimulate insulin production, however, will get you into trouble if you continue to take them in their usual dosages when you start a low-carb diet. Same for insulin. Of course, type 1 diabetics will always need some insulin and severe type 2's may need to continue taking some insulin or meds as well. For most people (type 2), however, getting completely off meds and insulin should be the goal of carbohydrate restriction.

An Atkins induction level of carb restriction is not hard to do. I have been doing it for almost nine years now and would not consider any other way of eating.

 

[viviennem]

That's what I thought, Canuck - thanks for the explanation!

I seem to have slipped off Induction and on to Ongoing Weight Loss, thanks to these dratted painkillers! Fortunately my blood glucose readings are staying stable and well within target range, so I should be okay for a while. I have a CT scan lined up, an interview with Orthopaedics and another with the pain management clinic. After that I should be able to get back on Induction - like you I enjoy it and have no problem with staying on it.

Viv 8)

 

[Ka-Mon]

For people with conditions associated with insulin resistance, a low-carb diet is an alternative to the current approach of high-carb plus meds. I don't see how making this statement is construed as "promoting" a low-carb diet in violation of the forum rules - please clarify.

Metformin is the drug with the lowest risk of hypoglycemia. It reduces glucose output from the liver and improves glucose uptake in the periphery. If you are reducing carbs while taking metformin your chances of having a problem of hypos is not great. Most people, however, should be able to get off their metformin or significantly reduce it. The other drugs that stimulate insulin production, however, will get you into trouble if you continue to take them in their usual dosages when you start a low-carb diet. Same for insulin. Of course, type 1 diabetics will always need some insulin and severe type 2's may need to continue taking some insulin or meds as well. For most people (type 2), however, getting completely off meds and insulin should be the goal of carbohydrate restriction.

Would you honestly say the same if you could control your diabetes any other way and minimal meds?

An Atkins induction level of carb restriction is not hard to do. I have been doing it for almost nine years now and would not consider any other way of eating.

It's not the only way to control diabetes though is it?

 

[ClaireG 06]

Surely it's all about finding the right way for you as an individual. After all, we are all different.