Struggling to keep BG down in mornings...

[Antje77]

I assure you that my, and my other's DP happens on a schedule whether we are awake or asleep.

I believe that's exactly what I said.
Which makes feet on the floor something else. And that's what the question in this thread was about, bg rising upon waking up. TS doesn't have a problem with bg rising through the night, so no DP.

 

[Antje77]

Just googled it. So it’s a new kind of ultrafast insulin! I could do with it because I have exactly the same issue as Indy1282.

Check it out! I've been on it for one and a half year now and it makes things a lot easier for me.

 

[endocrinegremlin]

I believe that's exactly what I said.
Which makes feet on the floor something else. And that's what the question in this thread was about, bg rising upon waking up. TS doesn't have a problem with bg rising through the night, so no DP.

You said 'usually' in a context which implied to me that you basically thought it happened when we were sleeping but fair if you did not.

But I don't agree that it makes your described issue new or different. Not all DP problems show a rise over night. 'Dawn' can mean when we wake up. And I see you just...didn't react to the fact that I mentioned that the second spike upon waking still happens.

But whatever, I don't want to debate the issue as I don't think we are going to agree and I don't want to derail this person's post.

 

[Antje77]

You said 'usually' in a context which implied to me that you basically thought it happened when we were sleeping but fair if you did not.

But I don't agree that it makes your described issue new or different. Not all DP problems show a rise over night. 'Dawn' can mean when we wake up. And I see you just...didn't react to the fact that I mentioned that the second spike upon waking still happens.

But whatever, I don't want to debate the issue as I don't think we are going to agree and I don't want to derail this person's post.

My apologies if I sounded harsher than I felt, and thanks for the friendly rebuke!
And despite the details, I believe we do agree on the over all picture!

 

[Stephen Lewis]

Although I am no longer on insulin I regularly have the glucose dump that can vary between the 'classic' dawn effect starting about 5:00 a.m. when I am still asleep to a rapid increase when I rise up. Sometimes these happen on the same day. Even with CGM I am never sure which one or both is happening. One solution that sometimes works for me is to have protein/fat, usually cheese, just before going to bed. The positive from this effect is that the pancreas is working properly when it triggers the liver to release glucose early in the morning. This is a normal part of the body's clock and bio-rhythms. I find this problem gets much worse with the changes to and from daylight savings time as this throws the clock out of kilter for several weeks so right now I am still trying to combat the spike.

 

[Indy1282]

I assure you that my, and my other's DP happens on a schedule whether we are awake or asleep. Ten past five each morning is when it kicks in for me. Most of us then see another spike when we get up, feet on floor, so to speak. It is just different patterns of the same complication.

Sorry but you have kind of contradicted yourself there...you said that DP happens on a schedule and always hits you at 5.10am each morning. As I said, I stay steady overnight then spike once I am out and moving around regardless of the time of day.

 

[Indy1282]

An update - I woke up at 6.30am and was at 9mmol. I took a correction dose and enough to cover my breakfast. I stated in bed for about 10 mins then got out when my BG started to drop. I dropped 4 mmol in an hour and eat 1p slice of toast and 2 boiled eggs. My BS went up from 5.4 to 7.2 and stayed there for about 3 hours. I then took a correction which bought me down to 5.6 just in time for lunch.

 

[Deleted Account]

An update - I woke up at 6.30am and was at 9mmol. I took a correction dose and enough to cover my breakfast. I stated in bed for about 10 mins then got out when my BG started to drop. I dropped 4 mmol in an hour and eat 1p slice of toast and 2 boiled eggs. My BS went up from 5.4 to 7.2 and stayed there for about 3 hours. I then took a correction which bought me down to 5.6 just in time for lunch.

That looks more positive.
A couple of questions (sorry, I don't mean to be like the little kid who asks "Why?" every time you explain something to him)
- is 9mmol/l a normal waking BG?
- if so, do you know if it is in response to the dawn part of Dawn Phenomenon or whether it was a longer term high(ish) value
- did you take any insulin for the slice of toast? I find eating something keeps me from rising further but I still need to bolus my usual ratios for it. And if my meal is very low carb, I also need to bolus for protein from the eggs.

My diabetes is pretty fickle so I have to repeat experiments multiple times to check the reaction was due to the food or insulin dose rather than the beer I had last night, the climbing session yesterday, the stressful meeting or the slight sniff.

 

[Indy1282]

That looks more positive.
A couple of questions (sorry, I don't mean to be like the little kid who asks "Why?" every time you explain something to him)
- is 9mmol/l a normal waking BG?
- if so, do you know if it is in response to the dawn part of Dawn Phenomenon or whether it was a longer term high(ish) value
- did you take any insulin for the slice of toast? I find eating something keeps me from rising further but I still need to bolus my usual ratios for it. And if my meal is very low carb, I also need to bolus for protein from the eggs.

My diabetes is pretty fickle so I have to repeat experiments multiple times to check the reaction was due to the food or insulin dose rather than the beer I had last night, the climbing session yesterday, the stressful meeting or the slight sniff.

No worries, more than happy to answer questions if it helps someone

No 9 is not usual, I had an Indian for dinner at about 8pm so was higher than usual because of that I expect. I had to correct at about 2am aswell

Yes I bolused for the toast and for half the protein in the eggs. I have to bolus for nearly everything I eat, even if there are no carbs.

 

[Indy1282]

Another update. I did exactly the same as yesterday but woke up at 4.9 mmol - have now spiked to 9.4 within an hour!!

 

[Stephen Lewis]

How is your weight doing? Mine used to spike very high. I have lost 25 lbs on a low carb diet, using the Low Carb Program, and reduced a lot of the fat around my waist under the muscle. I believe this lowers the bodies ability to produce the glucose internally. My morning spikes before eating are now rarely above 8.0, usually about 7.5 to 7.7.

 

[endocrinegremlin]

Sorry but you have kind of contradicted yourself there...you said that DP happens on a schedule and always hits you at 5.10am each morning. As I said, I stay steady overnight then spike once I am out and moving around regardless of the time of day.

No, I talked about my dawn spike on schedule and then what happens when I wake up.