Don't know what possessed me to read this...

[lessci]

Load of old cobblers in my opinion. Generations of high-carb eating? Try millions of years of low-carb eating then get back to me.

Stick to the current plan if it’s working for you.

Totally agree in evolutionary terms are bodies are still hunter/gatherers, and there is some evidence that those of us with a tendency towards Type 2 have more Neanderthal genes than others

 

[Listlad]

...... and there is some evidence that those of us with a tendency towards Type 2 have more Neanderthal genes than others

Is that right?

I have noticed one or two Neanderthals about too.

My recollection in Archeology classes was that hunter gatherers gathered wild seeds, grasses, and nuts; seasonal vegetables; roots and berries aswell as hunt and fish their own meat.

Stone Age (or lithic man) went through a transition over thousands of years where they became hunter gatherers more and more as the stone tools they developed became more sophisticated. We have Stone Age man to thank for the introduction of various crops into our diet through the development of agriculture. The New Stone Age or Neolithic started some 12000 years ago.

This appears to be a digression but it isn’t in terms of ideas being banded about on when the introduction of carbs into our diet actually occurred and who exactly was to blame for that. Palaeolithic man or Old Stone Age man was not just a meat eater. Most, if not all, are believed to have been opportunistic omnivores.

Early Man didn’t even cook it’s meat by all accounts. Not to start off with.

I am all for a low carb high fat diet, but distorting the historical (archaeological) truth to sell it, isn’t a good thing.

 

[bulkbiker]

Is that right?

I have noticed one or two Neanderthals about too.


I am all for a low carb high fat diet, but distorting the historical (archaeological) truth to sell it, isn’t a good thing.

https://phys.org/news/2019-02-isotopes-bones-neanderthals-fresh-meat.html

One of the first things we were told as Archaeology undergrads was to question everything we read even if it were written by our lecturers. As they said we make up theories based on other people's rubbish.. they are always open to question.

hunter gatherers gathered wild seeds, grasses, and nuts; seasonal vegetables; roots and berries aswell as hunt and fish their own meat.

If you had the choice between eating wild seeds and grasses and a juicy ocelot steak which would you go for?

 

[Listlad]

One of the first things we were told as Archaeology undergrads was to question everything we read even if it were written by our lecturers. As they said we make up theories based on other people's rubbish.. they are always open to question.

Exactly. Question everything, you got it.

Extolling the virtues of LCHF is one thing. Supporting it with nonsense relating to the diet of early man is another.

Like I said, there are a few Neaderthals that exist today.

 

[bulkbiker]

Supporting it with nonsense relating to the diet of early man is another.

Respectfully... I think you should read the study I linked to .. early man predates 12,000 BC by quite a long way and predates agriculture too (unless you are a Creationist of course).

 

[Listlad]

Respectfully... I think you should read the study I linked to .. early man predates 12,000 BC by quite a long way and predates agriculture too (unless you are a Creationist of course).

Me? A creationist? 12000 BC is far too early for me. Try 4.6 billion.

I had a quick look at it. There are many documents and articles and journals on that sort of thing. That is just but 1. We could of course ding dong evidence across to one another. I am not posting to fulfil an agenda. In this case it is a shame to see a good solution to diabetes supported by archaeological nonsense. But if you are happy doing that, be my guest. It’s dissapointing to see it though.

 

[bulkbiker]

Me? A creationist? 12000 BC is far too early for me. Try 4.6 billion.

I had a quick look at it. There are many documents and articles and journals on that sort of thing. That is just but 1. We could of course ding dong evidence across to one another. I am not posting to fulfil an agenda. In this case it is a shame to see a good solution to diabetes supported by archaeological nonsense. But if you are happy doing that, be my guest. It’s dissapointing to see it though.

Yeah whatever.. goodbye.

 

[Oldvatr]

Doing some trawling through Twitter and so on and came across this site: http://carbsanity.blogspot.com and for some reason I actually did some reading. Now this is when I hate having my self doubt and optimism being a little bit hindered due to someone else's opinions but it feels as if they're on a personal crusade against LCHF because it didn't work for them as a weight loss diet. Plus the fact that they keep talking about the fact that it isn't a cure compared to lets say the calorie restrictive Newcastle Diet that enabled some participants to regain beta cell functionality and it's just a dangerous form a management because you can't eat a small potato let's say. Comments advocating that the Newcastle Diet is better because it reduces pancreatic fat and that a LCHF diet just adds to the fat around the liver and pancreas instead of getting rid of it yet forgetting about ketosis being a state where your body is burning fat so it would probably give the same effect if you were in ketosis and fasting? Keeping dietary fat down and fasting would mean it burns it off I would think. There are so many success stories about low carb and the various issues that it solves no just Diabetes remission plus the fact we've seen people on LCHF being in remission for a while and having normal responses to carbs too if they indulged in them with their postprandial and even fasting numbers.

I don't know, maybe I just let myself get swept up into it or my brain was looking for a reason to doubt things. A lot of my health markers have improved on low carb and a lot of weight has been shed too, so I really shouldn't. Can't help it sometimes though in wondering if I am doing the right thing or I'm just letting big food/pharma get under my skin using credible yet bitter sources.

Many people are coming to LC diets from the weight loss perspective, and are not really interested in researching how their bodies react. Often they do not have a blood sugar meter or any way of confirming the diet's effect apart from weight. It is true that LCHF and keto diets are not as simple as the Slimfast Plan type of diet that Newcastle uses.

For those with a metabolic disorder, then there is the additional tools that this site can offer often with reasoned science to back up claims. For many of us, weight loss is a bonus, but is not the b'all and end'all. We also tend to be in it for the longer haul. These are factors that a pure weightloss program will not provide. Just a formula to follow.

I think that both Newcastle and the 800 Blood Diet are valid tools we can use to help us towards Remission, but what maintenance diet do they follow after the 8 weeks? The trouble is that people nowadays demand a quick fix, and LCHF is a lifestyle, not a diet. It has taken me 3 years to get into some form of remission, and I will be using LC diets for maintenance. But I can eat aka Eatwell now, and my diet at home is much better than it was 3 years ago. I choose carefully, but do not feel restricted or hungry. My weight has been static for the last 3 years within a kg at my correct BMI

 

[enb54]

I wouldn't overthink it.
If you are achieving the goals you seek in terms of weight and blood sugar levels, and you are, then doesn't that make you the expert on your own health? A random person on social media is unlikely to know better than you and hasn't done what you have done so, frankly, who cares what they think they know.
What you learn on this forum is based on genuine and real personal experiences and lots of them and I will take that every time.
Plus, you aren't a rat

As many others have mentioned and which I proselytize, if it works for you keep doing it. Your trusty blood glucose monitor tells you more about what your own body is doing to process food than many "experts" who want to force their T2D treatment ideas on you even if they don't work. We are living in an era of easy manipulation of media, especially social media, so you have to arm yourself with even more skepticism; especially when dealing with your health. Trust your blood glucose monitor...

 

[Resurgam]

Ah - I am broad shouldered, heavily muscled for a woman - I'd put money on my having Neanderthal genes and I am not a gambler.
For Humans in general to have developed their brains to the size they attained - Cro Magnon man had even larger brains than modern man - the inclusion of meat in the diet was an absolute necessity - a biological fact backed up by archaeological evidence, and sadly seen in modern societies where children are stunted in physical growth and mental capacity by the meagre diet of pulped and boiled up plants.
As a student of the sciences, heavily into Biology and saving the world for the benefit of all I am firmly of the opinion that there should be a guinea pig in every pot - though the bus station pigeon is a sadly under exploited resource....

 

[zand]

My fatty liver improved after just 3 weeks of LCHF.

 

[Caeseji]

As many others have mentioned and which I proselytize, if it works for you keep doing it. Your trusty blood glucose monitor tells you more about what your own body is doing to process food than many "experts" who want to force their T2D treatment ideas on you even if they don't work. We are living in an era of easy manipulation of media, especially social media, so you have to arm yourself with even more skepticism; especially when dealing with your health. Trust your blood glucose monitor...

It's something I have found quite liberating is finding out just what I can handle and what I cannot handle plus finding a food plan that works for me and my body. It's true that people will put their own thoughts forward without realising that we are all different and respond differently to various things. Thanks for saying this as well, it means a lot.

Ah - I am broad shouldered, heavily muscled for a woman - I'd put money on my having Neanderthal genes and I am not a gambler.
For Humans in general to have developed their brains to the size they attained - Cro Magnon man had even larger brains than modern man - the inclusion of meat in the diet was an absolute necessity - a biological fact backed up by archaeological evidence, and sadly seen in modern societies where children are stunted in physical growth and mental capacity by the meagre diet of pulped and boiled up plants.
As a student of the sciences, heavily into Biology and saving the world for the benefit of all I am firmly of the opinion that there should be a guinea pig in every pot - though the bus station pigeon is a sadly under exploited resource....

Hah! Okay that got a chuckle out of me I have to say and right there with you for the broad shoulders too, makes wearing some shirts really uncomfortable even with me losing weight. Seeing it from this perspective gives me a lot of confidence I got to admit there but I got to say the pigeons probably won't be that fatty a meat? Or would they? Something to ponder. Thank you for your insight Resurgam, still giving me some great views from the moment I got here onto this forum.

My fatty liver improved after just 3 weeks of LCHF.

That is absolutely fantastic zand, I am seriously glad to hear it! Makes me want to ask my doctor for a liver enzyme test or something like that, seems like it would be worth finding out how well it is actually ticking over now.

 

[Resurgam]

Pigeon meat is not fatty - it is best roasted wrapped in breast of lamb or belly pork.

 

[Caeseji]

Pigeon meat is not fatty - it is best roasted wrapped in breast of lamb or belly pork.

Now that is something I can certainly get behind!

 

[AloeSvea]

I have to say though, enjoyed above, all, but there is something of merit from carbsanity - Evelyn has written extensively and well about the role of free fatty acids in metabolic disorders, to the extent that I have included mention of it (and rightly so) in any writing I have done on T2D, and will continue to do so. Ditto on my own personal disease analysis. For those of us who are severely insulin resistant (SIRDs - where 'merely' going LCHF and keto does not bring about a full remission) the free fatty acid 'thing' is a really important and interesting part of the mishaps in metabolism puzzle. She also talks about the fact that is her essential positive contribution to the talk and writing on metabolic disorders, and I think she is correct!

i would post links, but alas my old untrusty laptop with saved websites is on the blink, but I leave it up to any interested parties to read her articles on the subject of FFAs, due to laziness on my part.

I too don't understand her strong stand against Gary Taubes, I continue to use his work as standard references when talking about weight, and weight loss. Reading some of above in relation to her weight and weight loss experiences goes some way to explain it though, so thanks for that.

Re the neanderthal thing. Africans whose ancestors did not leave the cradle of humanity to go on to sexually mix and mingle with neanderthals and denisovans (excuse spelling,I can't be bothered spell checking), are notoriously prone to T2D, also, along with many other ethnic groups. So.... doubt it is the neanderthal gene thing.

My strong suspicion, and have read from others more learned on the subject than me, is that being prone to T2D is probably the norm for our species! As in it about fat storage pathways and response to a high carb food environment. And will become more and more 'normal' as our insane frankenfood environment does its damndest before we see sense and attack this metabolic mayhem at its source - our food sources. I live in a country, NZ, please note, where currently one third of the population has blood glucose dysregulation of some degree. This means prediabetic to diabetic levels, nationwide. And sadly, this country is not an isolated case across the globe.

 

[EvafromSussex]

LCHF diet just adds to the fat around the liver and pancreas

I must say that I never heard this before. What I do know, is that fatty liver is often followed by fatty pancreas. LCHF diet encourages body to utilise fat, and if you gently dial down fat component on your plate, your body will go to internal fat stores, with liver fat being first to go, and improvement in liver architecture being remarkably fast. There is less data on improvement in pancreas architecture, but loss of visceral fat (around liver, pancreas and intestines) is pretty well documented.