Type 1 What levels do non-diabetics sugar spikes reach?

drew900uk

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I’ve been looking everywhere for an answer to this. One thing I’m trying to do as newly diagnosed T1 is obviously try and keep my sugars under tight control.

To help me with this (and just my understanding) I would like to know what a non-diabetic persons sugar can spike to. Is it outwith the 4 - 7.8 mmol range???
Thanks so much
 

Juicyj

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Hello @drew900uk I'm guessing your thinking is that you want to mimic non diabetic levels ? As a guide non diabetics can go up to 7.8 as you've already worked out.

As a newly diagnosed I understand completely where you are coming from, as I had the same focus when I was diagnosed, however adjusting to insulin and a possible honeymoon from your pancreas can change this.

The best advice I can offer at this stage is to simply read up, become an expert, get a copy of 'Think like a pancreas' written by a type 1, keep a diary so monitor your insulin doses, carbs eaten and blood glucose levels, it's easier to spot patterns when it's written down and you can see the cause and effect and then make decisions about adjustments, but of course most importantly keep regular contact with your diabetes nurse as they will help and support you.
 

drew900uk

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Thanks. I’m actually doing really well so far (6 months in). My Hba1c is 41 and rarely do my sugars go above 10mmol. I will check out that book, thanks for the tip! I would still like to know about non-diabetics though and their sugar spikes.
I have drank and honest chats with the nurses and they are great. Also the Libre is a game changer for me.
 
M

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I would still like to know about non-diabetics though and their sugar spikes.

I have no view on managing type 1 diabetes, but to be specific to your question, “non-diabetic” could broadly be considered a bit of a misnomer in the bigger picture when one considers that some estimates suggest the majority of many populations have at least some level of metabolic dysfunction. Putting a pin in a ‘normal’ level can therefore be quite difficult, and is often a matter of opinion. Personally I think seven or maybe eight at a push would be as high as you’d expect to see in metabolically healthy individuals, but I’ve seen this quoted by some as high as ten, so who knows.
 
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porl69

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Kirstyr

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I guess I’m not normal as I’ve a weird reactive hypoglycaemic thing going off. However my endocrinologist said the problem was we don’t actually know what a normal profile is (when presented with my libre downloads which look abnormal to me) I get spikes regularly over 10 my post meal spike is often 12-15 even with low carb meals. She did say this could be normal if it comes back into range within the 2 hours and there’s no other symptoms. Problem with mine is the numbers I rise to don’t seem to be related to the food type, i go high with lower carb lower gi foods as much as the higher carb loads, hence I’m not normal - but I’m not diabetic either apparently....
 
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Brunneria

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Hi @drew900uk

There is an interesting section on this site
https://www.bloodsugar101.com/all-about-blood-sugar
About what is ‘normal’
And frankly, I don’t think most doctors and endocrinologists have much idea about what ‘normal’ looks like.
By the time they start taking notice of T1s and T2s, and even pre-diabetics who need their attention then ‘normal’ left the building long before.

It is also as much about insulin effectiveness (insulin resistance) and the length of time the blood glucose is raised, as it is about the height of the spike. Of course, not everyone has insulin resistance.

I should caution you that the link I posted is a site aimed at type 2 diabetics. Therefore, people without T2 should be careful about what info they take from it. But knowing what is ‘normal’ for non diabetics is a general piece of info.

Ed. for typos
 
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xfieldok

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My understanding is that non-diabetics can have huge spikes depending upon what they eat. However, their bodies have the capacity to recover to within normal ranges within a very short time.

Happy to be corrected.
 
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M

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My understanding is that non-diabetics can have huge spikes depending upon what they eat. However, their bodies have the capacity to recover to within normal ranges within a very short time.

Happy to be corrected.

I think you may unwittingly mean those with undiagnosed metabolic disorder. Huge spikes may be considered normal in society but they’re definitely not normal for our biology. A metabolically healthy human maintains glucose homeostasis within a very narrow corridor. All the time.

Edited to rephrase first sentence.
 

sally and james

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Huge spikes may be considered normal in society but they’re definitely not normal for our biology. A metabolically healthy human maintains glucose homeostasis within a very narrow corridor. All the time.
Could I suggest that a "normal" human being doesn't eat sugar, except in very small quantities or on rare occasions, so the concept of a "normal" spike doesn't really exist.
Sally
 

Shas3

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Could I suggest that a "normal" human being doesn't eat sugar, except in very small quantities or on rare occasions, so the concept of a "normal" spike doesn't really exist.
Sally

That is so true.... now the way most people seem to eat, it seems I don’t know any normal human beings ... the only normal human beings are those labeled as diabetics as they are the only ones that don’t eat sugar except in very small quantities or on rare occasions
 
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Cocosilk

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My understanding is that non-diabetics can have huge spikes depending upon what they eat. However, their bodies have the capacity to recover to within normal ranges within a very short time.

Happy to be corrected.

But for how long can someone hope to go on eating food that causes large spikes before they end up insulin resistant and eventually diabetic?

I've read that a healthy person's blood sugar stays roughly between 4 and 6 mmol. If a non-diabetic is spiking regularly to 9 and 10mmol, I think it's only a matter of time.
 
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xfieldok

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You are asking how long is a piece of string.

Some people can be brought up by n rubbish and continue eating it and never develop diabetes.

Other people may have a genetic predisposition.

Others may not be overweight, eat relatively well and they still get it.
 
D

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Google "reddit non diabetic Libre graphs" (sorry I am on my phone and cannot paste the link).
The first response is a student without diabetes testing a Libre in real life scenarios like drinking beer, eating pizza, exercising,...
Only one sample but interesting and real.
 
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Ellenor2000

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I am not a healthcare professional and this is not medical advice. Furthermore, I do not have much personal experience with diabetes. I present this reply in hopes that it is useful, but without any warranty of fitness for purpose. You use the information contained herein at your own (likely minor, if you know what you are doing) peril.

Ideally, for maximum emotional stability and complication prevention, you wouldn't be ticking up over 5.6 mM, though many people have said that someone without DM1 wouldn't be diagnosed with impaired glucose tolerance until they were showing postmeals over 7.8 mM, which I think is absurd (a blood glucose that high is not a good experience).

Since you're looking for what's normal, I think I'm a good reference point, because I don't have DM of either type. However, as you'll read later, I do appear to have impaired glucose tolerance, so maybe I'm not what you'd call 'normal', although I eat a diet that makes logical sense for IGT so I do run numbers I consider normal.

I've seen fasting glucoses for myself all the way from 3.7 mM to 5.8 mM, even into the low 7s during an extended fast. Generally, though, 12 hours p.c. the number usually has a 4 in front of it. Only a 5.x if my sleep is really whack. High 5s are generally a result of undereating and poor sleep together (kinda ironic but simultaneously sensible how higher BGs would be from undereating).

FreeStyle Libre is extraordinarily inaccurate for me, though I did sort of put it in the wrong place (my left tit, to be precise), and if I had DM1 I would not use Libre for treatment decisions, preferring instead to rely on a fingerstick test.

If I eat a 75g-carb bowl of rice, I'll tick up all the way to 8.5 mM, and that sort of feels like the end of the world for me (think: all the water you drink just cannot stick to you). So, I really don't eat much in the way of glucose, be it bread, rice, oats, potatoes, sweet potatoes or carrots. In fact, I don't eat almost anything in the way of plant-derived food, mostly because of information I'm privy to about antinutrients (including oxalic acid and phytic acid).

When I eat my usual diet of various guises of red meat, eggs and dairy, the glucagon ramp that comes from the protein in that is hidden by an insulin ramp. You won't have this happen because you have DM1. Instead you will see your blood sugar come up from gluconeogenesis. You may need to get your pharmacy to give you "soluble" (the older rapid-acting insulin, that superseded beef/pork but preceded the modern 'logues) if you decide you want to eat a diet akin to mine (I would not do this without consulting your healthcare professional; I'm just a layperson who has never had a diagnosis of diabetes but is pretty sure she's been in the cascade that would lead to DM2 if left unchecked).

I've heard second-hand anecdotes that some people who live with DM1 have to split-dose their basal insulin analogue to achieve 24 hour coverage, and that this may be true even with degludec, which is touted as lasting 42 hours. Again; ask your healthcare professional how to do this safely if that's what you want to do.

If you're asking about my 1h postprandial numbers, those run in the same range as my fasting numbers unless I just ate a ton of starch or swigged a glass of milk. 3.7-5.8, usually has a 4 in front of it. If I eat rice, as I said, I might tick up to 8.5 within the ensuing 2-3 hours. I recently tested myself on a similar quantity of oat porridge (diluted with yoghurt, milk and cream, so that might be why) and strangely did not test above 6.3 once, but it was bouncing between 5s and that for upwards of two hours.
 
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Cocosilk

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I am not a healthcare professional and this is not medical advice. Furthermore, I do not have much personal experience with diabetes. I present this reply in hopes that it is useful, but without any warranty of fitness for purpose. You use the information contained herein at your own (likely minor, if you know what you are doing) peril.

Ideally, for maximum emotional stability and complication prevention, you wouldn't be ticking up over 5.6 mM, though many people have said that someone without DM1 wouldn't be diagnosed with impaired glucose tolerance until they were showing postmeals over 7.8 mM, which I think is absurd (a blood glucose that high is not a good experience).

Since you're looking for what's normal, I think I'm a good reference point, because I don't have DM of either type. However, as you'll read later, I do appear to have impaired glucose tolerance, so maybe I'm not what you'd call 'normal', although I eat a diet that makes logical sense for IGT so I do run numbers I consider normal.

I've seen fasting glucoses for myself all the way from 3.7 mM to 5.8 mM, even into the low 7s during an extended fast. Generally, though, 12 hours p.c. the number usually has a 4 in front of it. Only a 5.x if my sleep is really whack. High 5s are generally a result of undereating and poor sleep together (kinda ironic but simultaneously sensible how higher BGs would be from undereating).

FreeStyle Libre is extraordinarily inaccurate for me, though I did sort of put it in the wrong place (my left tit, to be precise), and if I had DM1 I would not use Libre for treatment decisions, preferring instead to rely on a fingerstick test.

If I eat a 75g-carb bowl of rice, I'll tick up all the way to 8.5 mM, and that sort of feels like the end of the world for me (think: all the water you drink just cannot stick to you). So, I really don't eat much in the way of glucose, be it bread, rice, oats, potatoes, sweet potatoes or carrots. In fact, I don't eat almost anything in the way of plant-derived food, mostly because of information I'm privy to about antinutrients (including oxalic acid and phytic acid).

When I eat my usual diet of various guises of red meat, eggs and dairy, the glucagon ramp that comes from the protein in that is hidden by an insulin ramp. You won't have this happen because you have DM1. Instead you will see your blood sugar come up from gluconeogenesis. You may need to get your pharmacy to give you "soluble" (the older rapid-acting insulin, that superseded beef/pork but preceded the modern 'logues) if you decide you want to eat a diet akin to mine (I would not do this without consulting your healthcare professional; I'm just a layperson who has never had a diagnosis of diabetes but is pretty sure she's been in the cascade that would lead to DM2 if left unchecked).

I've heard second-hand anecdotes that some people who live with DM1 have to split-dose their basal insulin analogue to achieve 24 hour coverage, and that this may be true even with degludec, which is touted as lasting 42 hours. Again; ask your healthcare professional how to do this safely if that's what you want to do.

If you're asking about my 1h postprandial numbers, those run in the same range as my fasting numbers unless I just ate a ton of starch or swigged a glass of milk. 3.7-5.8, usually has a 4 in front of it. If I eat rice, as I said, I might tick up to 8.5 within the ensuing 2-3 hours. I recently tested myself on a similar quantity of oat porridge (diluted with yoghurt, milk and cream, so that might be why) and strangely did not test above 6.3 once, but it was bouncing between 5s and that for upwards of two hours.
Hey I'm curious. You said when you eat rice you get up to 8.5mmol
Is that at 1h or 2h or later?
I was about the same at 1h with rice and sometimes couldn't back under 6.7 by the 2 mark so I've stopped eating it.
What made you start checking your own bg levels? It's a good idea and I think it should become mainstream so people can stop being in denial about how their food choices are affecting them.
 

Cocosilk

Well-Known Member
Messages
818
Type of diabetes
Gestational
Treatment type
Insulin
Thanks. I’m actually doing really well so far (6 months in). My Hba1c is 41 and rarely do my sugars go above 10mmol. I will check out that book, thanks for the tip! I would still like to know about non-diabetics though and their sugar spikes.
I have drank and honest chats with the nurses and they are great. Also the Libre is a game changer for me.

The question is how high do non-diabetics who are not on the pathway to insulin resistance and possibly diabetes spike to?

You could have a non-diabetic spiking to 8 or 9mmol 1h after eating a carb meal and their body manages to bring it back down to 5 or 6mmol. This could go on for years before they become insulin resistant enough to start showing sign of prediabetes.
Another non-diabetic who follows a keto or low carb diet might only ever have blood sugar in the 5s even at the highest. They are not likely to end up with diabetes eating like that.
 
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