Type 2 TYPE OF FAT I CAN EAT

[HSSS]

The bars might be the diarrhoea culprit. Check for maltitol in the ingredients. It’s a common side effect and they might affect your blood sugars too despite claiming not to. Try dropping them for now

Print off the food lists, or copy them out from dietdoctor as a quick ready reckoner of what to eat. Pick a couple of fats for cooking (I use butter and olive oil and occasionally coconut oil). Avoid marg and oils like vegetable, sunflower etc. Avoid processed foods where most trans fats lurk. Keep it simple til you get your head around it. Read the labels or look up carb content to find out if you can eat something or not. If you’re really still worried focus on the “Mediterranean “ fats eg oily fish nuts and olive oils that the dr will approve of.

Did your carer really understand xpert anyway ? Sounds like an excuse to me. Did you provide a list of what to shop for? Maybe that would help.

What medically proven studies have you been directed to that convince you of the xpert and low fat ways? There are numberous that support what we all keep telling They are out there. This forum has many links posted daily. You’ve had a fair number in this and other posts. Go look again at Zoe harcombe or Ivor Cummings. At the end of the day there is little in medicine or nutrition that is universally accepted by all. Look at the studies personally or believe someone’s ‘opinion’ of them (us in here, a nurse, a dr or a different nurse or dr as they all vary) its a choice we all have to make.

At review just tell them for now you’re focusing on fresh unprocessed foods without sugar and reducing the bread rice pasta etc and using healthy fats like olive oil. Ok you might be doing a little more than that but if you aren’t ready to have that argument yet then don’t. Wait and see what results it brings you in 3 months time (next hb1ac).

 

[Bluetit1802]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext?elsca1=tlxpr
https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj...16c819c7d154347b2b732eb7&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/4/e004487


There are a few to be going on with there, and they have further links in the references to other studies.

 

[HSSS]

And this might be interesting to go to thelinks and the graphs especially the last table says it all

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...es-for-ketogenic-diet-published-today.165075/

 

[Q007]

The bars might be the diarrhoea culprit. Check for maltitol in the ingredients. It’s a common side effect and they might affect your blood sugars too despite claiming not to. Try dropping them for now

Print off the food lists, or copy them out from dietdoctor as a quick ready reckoner of what to eat. Pick a couple of fats for cooking (I use butter and olive oil and occasionally coconut oil). Avoid marg and oils like vegetable, sunflower etc. Avoid processed foods where most trans fats lurk. Keep it simple til you get your head around it. Read the labels or look up carb content to find out if you can eat something or not. If you’re really still worried focus on the “Mediterranean “ fats eg oily fish nuts and olive oils that the dr will approve of.

Did your carer really understand xpert anyway ? Sounds like an excuse to me. Did you provide a list of what to shop for? Maybe that would help.

What medically proven studies have you been directed to that convince you of the xpert and low fat ways? There are numberous that support what we all keep telling They are out there. This forum has many links posted daily. You’ve had a fair number in this and other posts. Go look again at Zoe harcombe or Ivor Cummings. At the end of the day there is little in medicine or nutrition that is universally accepted by all. Look at the studies personally or believe someone’s ‘opinion’ of them (us in here, a nurse, a dr or a different nurse or dr as they all vary) its a choice we all have to make.

At review just tell them for now you’re focusing on fresh unprocessed foods without sugar and reducing the bread rice pasta etc and using healthy fats like olive oil. Ok you might be doing a little more than that but if you aren’t ready to have that argument yet then don’t. Wait and see what results it brings you in 3 months time (next hb1ac).

Hi and evening, thank you for the balanced reply, the our way or the highway was wearing thin, I'm sorry to report in like this but that's how it feels from some members.

Here's the thing, the XPERT was delivered by two well qualified medics, I came with open mind as I did here, I managed to get my carer who's my estranged wife a place on the course to stop the arguments over food, so she'd know what to buy and prepare.

Years ago we were having the same kicking off when it was lasagne on Mondays, soup and bread on Tuesdays etc and I was asked to go with her shopping. I saw fundus crispy pancakes and commented I'd seen them on TV and they looked nice. Two weeks later all variety of them were in the freezer when I mentioned we were now having them twice a week I was told I picked them.
I used to cook breakfast on weekends and eventually took on over weekly supermarket shop and brought variety to the table, I tried to cook but breakfast was my limit. I just wanted to get this out as it look like my fault, I've tried. She throws in my face ' you went on XPERT course ate carbs lost weight and next Hba1c was lowest ever, so why are you listening to these die hards on that forum ' it's hard to return serve which is why I'm so down hearted. There isn't the evidence to outweigh XPERT vs LCHF.

and, after many posts I still dont know what a trans fat is, still can't find much to suggest saturated is OK. Two scrambled eggs and two bacon isn't enough to stop the snacking until dinner and instead I get math formula n=1 (n = number of components the rest is garble). I dont know if I've stopped in the right place here and not sure where else to go to help me buy in to this lifestyle vs the NHS, its not a crime to be well informed and to know where the data coming from. I dont know what I'll for without someone to look after me, I dont think some of the drugs I now take are helping, Jim's way of explaining ' blood glucose is elastic' filled in so many blanks. I couldn't give a ****** really about the DN and the NHS and challenging, I want to know how we got to fats and stuff are good and better for you. I can't see me living out my days eating chia seeds, I'd feed seeds to the birds.

Its awkward by text alone isn't it easy for either side to be confused can't cope with the defensive behavior of anyone on any subject if they can't back it up.

Got nothin else to do tonight but to try and fix it all in my mind, two polarising opinions isn't easy.

Good evening to all tonight, best wishes Q.

 

[Mbaker]

Man made trans fat are not compatible with human health. The powers that be experimented with us, with their rancid vegetable oils, which they have literally been cleaning up for decades. For at least 25 years (if not longer) they did not realise that the trans fats made within the manufacturing was dangerous - quietly they have either removed or in the process of still removing, whilst the aldehyde producing oils are still marketed as safe due to the lowering of LDL (yet they reduce omega 3 due to being high in omega 6). The circa 2.5% trans fat in beef has been said to be heart protective, I have not seen this contradicted (I believe the trans fat in man made oils has the bonds the wrong way round (I may have mis-remembered this), which makes them unrecognisable to the body - these hang around the body for months / years).

No studies have shown a definitive link between saturated fat and heart disease. Two scrambled egg and 2 bacon would not hit the sides, I would double this and then have some full fat Greek yogurt with a few berries.

I would stick to quality red meats and fish, with occasional white poultry (higher in omega 6).

 

[Listlad]

Two scrambled egg and 2 bacon would not hit the sides, I would double this and then have some full fat Greek yogurt with a few berries.

That’s my breakfast.

 

[HSSS]

Hi and evening, thank you for the balanced reply, the our way or the highway was wearing thin, I'm sorry to report in like this but that's how it feels from some members.

Here's the thing, the XPERT was delivered by two well qualified medics, I came with open mind as I did here, I managed to get my carer who's my estranged wife a place on the course to stop the arguments over food, so she'd know what to buy and prepare.

Years ago we were having the same kicking off when it was lasagne on Mondays, soup and bread on Tuesdays etc and I was asked to go with her shopping. I saw fundus crispy pancakes and commented I'd seen them on TV and they looked nice. Two weeks later all variety of them were in the freezer when I mentioned we were now having them twice a week I was told I picked them.
I used to cook breakfast on weekends and eventually took on over weekly supermarket shop and brought variety to the table, I tried to cook but breakfast was my limit. I just wanted to get this out as it look like my fault, I've tried. She throws in my face ' you went on XPERT course ate carbs lost weight and next Hba1c was lowest ever, so why are you listening to these die hards on that forum ' it's hard to return serve which is why I'm so down hearted. There isn't the evidence to outweigh XPERT vs LCHF.

and, after many posts I still dont know what a trans fat is, still can't find much to suggest saturated is OK. Two scrambled eggs and two bacon isn't enough to stop the snacking until dinner and instead I get math formula n=1 (n = number of components the rest is garble). I dont know if I've stopped in the right place here and not sure where else to go to help me buy in to this lifestyle vs the NHS, its not a crime to be well informed and to know where the data coming from. I dont know what I'll for without someone to look after me, I dont think some of the drugs I now take are helping, Jim's way of explaining ' blood glucose is elastic' filled in so many blanks. I couldn't give a ****** really about the DN and the NHS and challenging, I want to know how we got to fats and stuff are good and better for you. I can't see me living out my days eating chia seeds, I'd feed seeds to the birds.

Its awkward by text alone isn't it easy for either side to be confused can't cope with the defensive behavior of anyone on any subject if they can't back it up.

Got nothin else to do tonight but to try and fix it all in my mind, two polarising opinions isn't easy.

Good evening to all tonight, best wishes Q.

Q. I’m going to be blunt. You have had as much well meaning and self followed advice on here as anyone else if not more in a short space of time. You have been given links to self study the science behind that advice. Have you gone to these links and read more? You have had the same contradictory advice from the nhs almost all of us have had. (by the way some nhs drs fully support low carb and higher saturated fats eg dr Unwin gp and dr malhotra cardiologist ) I appreciate you’ve had the scary experience of heart issues that fortunately many of us haven’t experienced. An estranged partner must have its challenges as a carer! I am assuming there are reasons you cannot shop (online?) and cook for yourself as you have a carer, so you do need someone who will follow your lead and wishes rather than someone to battle with.

None of us can tell you what to do but you are having circular arguments in almost all your threads. You want better than xpert but are sceptical of anything suggested that isn’t xpert. Scepticism is healthy. Being confident of your choices is good but not one of us can give you a guarantee. All we can do is tell you what worked for us and why we believe that is. We can give links to explain why we try these things and why we believe it’s backed by science. We can tell you till we’re blue in the face why we think carbs are damaging and fat is ok. You need to go do the reading for yourself - or not. You need to choose to try something that feels right to you and see how it goes. Start gently or start full on your choice. And then adjust as necessary.

Low carb and low fat is as doomed to failure as high carb and high fat but with different problems, in my opinion.

I hope you find some clarity and peace of mind soon. And despite what I say do keep asking questions, it’s just that the same questions will likely get much the same answers.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. I understand you want scientifically proven diet advice but I'm afraid you will find very little. Most Nutritionists just make it up and even the NHS which is guided by Public Health England is in turn guided by food companies - I could go on. What is a fact is that carbs are converted to glucose in the stomach and the liver decides what to do with that glucose in the blood and either provides it to the muscles for energy or stores it as fat. If you have a failing pancreas there wont be enough insulin to use it hence high BS. If you have insulin resistance and hence stored fat everywhere your muscles can't use the insulin hence high BS. Fats are complex and have a very complex route thru the body. It's one reason measuring calories is a waste of time. The behaviour of fat types is documented on the web in various papers. The experience of 1000s if not 10000s of posters over the years on this forum who actually have diabetes is that reducing the carbs helps their diabetes and proteins and fats don't have that much effect on BS. The subject of fats and heart disease etc is a mass of conflicting advice by the experts. I tend to follow the way fats are metabolised in the body (where I can find the info) and use judgement from there.

 

[HSSS]

Just found this thread Q. It might give you some answers for the science behind diet choices. Lots of useful references

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-low-carb-path-back-to-health-keto-was-the-key.164080/

 

[WuTwo]

As an aside and somewhat happily from my point of view, Flora and other butter alternatives that were once partially hydrogenated, no longer go through hydrogenation resulting in zero trans fats, and all the versions of Flora are vegan. Please - nobody pop up like an evil genie and instantly tell me they contain something else that will kill me... This thread is about fats, not peoples' opinion of fats that are not butter or lard. I daresay there are so-called experts would tell us that every mouthful any of us eat will kill us. So far I ain't dead,

 

[Robbity]

Try this for starters as a rough guide:

Get your fats from mainly natural or minimally processed food - fattier cuts of meat, (sausages look for at least 80% meat content), poultry with skin on, oily fish, seeds, nuts & unsweetened nut butters, coconut oils and butters, olives (and oil), avocado (and oils) , most dairy - e.g. butter, full fat creams, full fat yoghurt, full fat cheeses. Avoid margerine and other butter replacement spreads, low or reduded fat/lite anythings, e;g., cheeses, yoghurts, etc. Avoid heavily processed commercial foods especially those containing both fats and starches (flour), e;g. cakes, biscuits, pies, snacks, and be very wary of trans fat monsters in the form of various vegetable cooking oils.

If in doubt "Google is your friend" but carefully check the source of the information!

Robbity

 

[Dexterdobe]

Sarcasm doesnt do it for me Jim, keep it. Give me a knock when you have some medically / scientific proven evidence.
Hoping you're well, best wishes Q.

It is difficult to prove that fat is good or bad because proof requires long and comicated trials involving thousands of participants. For many years the medical world demonised all fats. Then trials started to differentiate between different types of fats. At the moment the jury is out, but thinking has swung slightly towards the view that only trans fats are harmful and that some fats are actually health enhancing. The only way to form an opinion is to plough through the medical reports and decide for yourself. I did this when I was diagnosed as T2 and I decided to eat little carbs and more fat(excluding trans fats). I lost 7% of my weight in 8 months, NY HBA1C fell from 53 to 40 and a whole raft of other medical conditions including asthma, irritable bowel and an irregular heart beat have all but gone. My cholesterol is in the normal range despite the extra fat consumption. Some doctors and nurses still think I am a fool to increase my fat consumption. Only time will tell, but to me the experiment has worked. It's up to you to decide what is best for you. The evidence is out there, but it is detailed and you need to research it yourself. No one can give a quick answer I'm afraid.

 

[Listlad]

It is difficult to prove that fat is good or bad because proof requires long and comicated trials involving thousands of participants. For many years the medical world demonised all fats. Then trials started to differentiate between different types of fats. At the moment the jury is out, but thinking has swung slightly towards the view that only trans fats are harmful and that some fats are actually health enhancing. The only way to form an opinion is to plough through the medical reports and decide for yourself. I did this when I was diagnosed as T2 and I decided to eat little carbs and more fat(excluding trans fats). I lost 7% of my weight in 8 months, NY HBA1C fell from 53 to 40 and a whole raft of other medical conditions including asthma, irritable bowel and an irregular heart beat have all but gone. My cholesterol is in the normal range despite the extra fat consumption. Some doctors and nurses still think I am a fool to increase my fat consumption. Only time will tell, but to me the experiment has worked. It's up to you to decide what is best for you. The evidence is out there, but it is detailed and you need to research it yourself. No one can give a quick answer I'm afraid.

Or one can trawl through the forum and note how many members have upped their good fats, improved their cholesterol levels and reduced their blood sugar levels too. Not science as we know it Captain Kirk but valid all the same. I include myself in that data too.

 

[Q007]

It is difficult to prove that fat is good or bad because proof requires long and comicated trials involving thousands of participants. For many years the medical world demonised all fats. Then trials started to differentiate between different types of fats. At the moment the jury is out, but thinking has swung slightly towards the view that only trans fats are harmful and that some fats are actually health enhancing. The only way to form an opinion is to plough through the medical reports and decide for yourself. I did this when I was diagnosed as T2 and I decided to eat little carbs and more fat(excluding trans fats). I lost 7% of my weight in 8 months, NY HBA1C fell from 53 to 40 and a whole raft of other medical conditions including asthma, irritable bowel and an irregular heart beat have all but gone. My cholesterol is in the normal range despite the extra fat consumption. Some doctors and nurses still think I am a fool to increase my fat consumption. Only time will tell, but to me the experiment has worked. It's up to you to decide what is best for you. The evidence is out there, but it is detailed and you need to research it yourself. No one can give a quick answer I'm afraid.

Thanks for the reply, YES, I have read the links provided I've always been a swat and passionately care about my health and want to become very informed about them all.

I don't have a good outlook just now and too young to be taken out by one of the conditions. Sudden drops in blood pressure remains unanswered by the NHS (75/55) I'm also dealing with.

My only chance, as I see it, is to low carb without the fat.

I didn't find your reply blunt nor any of the other replies from you and there's no need for blunt, sarcastic posts just because I dont go to your school yet, I went away from this site before because of trolling non believers. I'm testing opinion and some replies are short, like a text and I'd be a fool to put my life on the line for a few lines, non supported proof of practice.

I have listened; bought scales to measure packets that pour, dropped to around 100 carbs a day, cut out the high GI stuff, no potatoes, so I'm listening and having a go so please, dont be blunt. I've lost 5lbs in two weeks or so, testing bloods to see what suits.

I'm the one that was laid out for 12 hours in resus when I had the MI, I'm the one that was awake in theatre listening to the surgeon as he performed the PCI procedure who was talking to me about how fats have caused the atherosclerosis to a then very slim active man who doesnt smoke nor drink, what else would it be said he said, cholesterol was 11.5 and elevated trigs. On paper he said, I shouldn't have survived.

So this gives me a right to question anything new, if I meet with hostile (blunt) replies then best I move on. Hope this clears it all up. I have been perfectly civil in the way I reply to OP and subsequent replies, that's how non visual conversation should be.

I have had some ' warming' and encouraging replies which really have helped me.

I'm still non sure what a trans fat is despite asking, and where I'd find it (foods). Still not sure if 100 carbs is a fair start point from the XPERT advice is was given for a 6' 13st 9lbs man.

The XPERT publish annual stats with relevant numbers (not n=1) on what they achieved, its solid reading, there is only opinion here,

I now believe carbs have to be reduced substantially reduced in my case, eat to the meter, I start GP exercise referral assisted exercise in a few weeks, again I've listened, it cost me my carer as I fumbled through an explanation for a huge U turn.

Can't find any stats on high fat though? The links have taken me to other people who are just in the same club as folk on here.

My mood has become so low whilst I work out if this is a credible lifestyle choice that won't get passed 3 stents for another MI or a stroke. I can't go to the DN or GP with this, I have to rely solely on opinion and personal stories, it's so hard to call it. I was 27 years in business where numbers always beat opinion and theory.

To find someone who walked in my shoes with this who has a life compass that can give me some more years. Nothing blunt though, but I understand its your bat and ball so if I dont play the game

Hope everyone especially yourself has had a good start to the weekend. Q.

 

[Listlad]

......there is only opinion here,

That’s not quite true. There are a lot of useful statistics here on the forum. They are just not laid out neatly and summarised. Trawl through the forum and you will see them. That’s what I did. It took me a few weeks though.

 

[Q007]

That’s not quite true. There are a lot of useful statistics here on the forum. They are just not laid out neatly and summarised. Trawl through the forum and you will see them. That’s what I did. It took me a few weeks though.

Thank you for that, I will. Start me off then with a link from here on fats and the credibility it holds in new thinking, please. Kind regards, Q.

 

[lucylocket61]

Thank you for that, I will. Start me off then with a link from here on fats and the credibility it holds in new thinking, please. Kind regards, Q.

This may or may not be helpful, but my intentions are good: I lower carb, but i dont High Fat. Never have, in the 7 years since I have been doing this. I have my usual amounts of fat - a bit of butter here and there, full fat milk, full fat hard cheese, some eggs a couple of times a week. Thats it. I cook my eggs in a bit of butter or lard. I have liver and onions cooked in goose fat, but not every week.

I dont understand a lot of the technical stuff thats talked about on here, so cant help you there. As for trans fats, I just avoid them by not having processed foods where possible. My diet is very simple and I make my own bread, using olive oil as the fat in it (a very small amount). With packet foods, when it comes to ingredients lists, if i cant pronounce it, I dont buy it.

Oh, and I have a small drizzle of olive oil on my salads, and full fat mayo.

I hope this helps and, if not, I send my good wishes anyway.

 

[lucylocket61]

Thank you for that, I will. Start me off then with a link from here on fats and the credibility it holds in new thinking, please. Kind regards, Q.

PS I found this video helpful in understanding fats and what they do to our bodies.

 

[Listlad]

Thank you for that, I will. Start me off then with a link from here on fats and the credibility it holds in new thinking, please. Kind regards, Q.

Like I said, Q. There is no nice convenient link that I used. The data is disseminated throughout a myriad of forum threads - in the detail provided by many members of their eating habits, their blood sugar levels and their cholesterol related results that they post. It then leaves the reader to summarise and digest that data. Something I am certain has not been overlooked by the site ownership. The final outcome is greater than the sum of its parts so if you simply take one individual and their stats alone it doesn’t count for much, but take a large sample and go through the stats one by one and you can reach your own conclusions.

 

[lucylocket61]

Thank you for that, I will. Start me off then with a link from here on fats and the credibility it holds in new thinking, please. Kind regards, Q.

Here is another video, with Dr Aseem Malhotra, a consultant cardiologist and highly respected member of the medical profession:

Why Cholesterol May Not Be the Cause of Heart Disease with Dr. Aseem Malhotra