Insulin resistance

Roseanne01

Well-Known Member
Messages
81
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
'isms'. Not being able to eat potatoes.
Emmasndco I crossed over to type 2 diabetes in 2005 so was 10 years diabetic without any treatment in 2015 when I began eating carbs in the 30 - 42 carb range. Today, I probably eat just under or above 50 carbs a day. We are very fortunate as type 2's because we can manage our diabetes with diet and exercise alone.

The problem with treating type 2's with insulin and medication is that the insulin worsens insulin resistance and the medication gives you the false impression that you're okay as the diabetes continues to progress - (which your doctor likely doesn't know; so glad he told about the severe insulin resistance because he's right!). Too often, when type 2's inject insulin, it allows the disease to progress and within two or so decades, the complications begin. Chronic Kidney Disease is a huge problem down the road for us when glucose levels and hypertension aren't well controlled.

This is what lead Canadian nephrologist Jason Fung to begin searching for other treatment options for his diabetic patients, who often had Chronic Kidney Disease too. He supports his patients by using fasting (and the low carb diet). After years and years of following the standard of care - (medication, sometimes insulin) - he had a treatment strategy that works!

I think you'll find this recent interview with him life changing...


After listening to his online lectures and interviews - (there are many) - I join mazza 2 in encouraging you to read The Diabetes Code by Jason Fung, MD. One of our group's members recently had surgery, read the book, began intermittent fasting, and after more than a year of "kind of eating low carb", has significantly dropped her glucose levels. Her surgeon was amazed at how quickly she's healing!

There is hope.

That said, there's some thought that when diet and exercise don't work, there's a possibility that "heavy metals" in the body are the driver of the uncontrolled diabetes. That said, I'd take a hard look at what foods you're eating, your actual carb count, and adding intermittent fasting first before exploring that possibility.

Glad you're asking questions. I struggled for 10 years with my diabetes before I found the low carb diet. It and now intermittent fasting have made all the difference for me. Hopefully, it can for you too!

Interesting. Low carb usually assumes more protein.
 

Roseanne01

Well-Known Member
Messages
81
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
'isms'. Not being able to eat potatoes.
Not sure where you've come across that information. It's a common myth though. LCHF/Keto is high fat, not high protein.

Several dietitians actually. In Australia. Though talking low carb as Lichfield is not a big thing here. I’m glad it’s working for you, but I'd like to note that we're not all the same, and one doctors magic potion for one may well be another diabetics poison.
 

Roseanne01

Well-Known Member
Messages
81
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
'isms'. Not being able to eat potatoes.
Lichfield = low carb high fat
 

poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'
I quite agree that diet and exercise does not work for everyone and some will need medication. I sometimes think it depends why you got diabetes in the first place. I think there are many reasons, for instance, the majority of people who get type 2 are overweight (regardless of why e.g. insulin resistance), it seems for these people (and it's only what I've noticed) once they change their diet and introduce exercise they seem to reverse their diabetes quite quickly. For people who are not overweight, it sometimes appears it takes longer or maybe that's only me!! But, there maybe some people who have got diabetes due to stress, anxiety or other medical reasons. With this category of people, unless they can address the reasons for their stress or medical problems, they may not be able to reverse their condition with diet alone. I appreciate it is still better to address their diet and eat foods which have low impact on insulin levels to try and keep complications at bay, but there is a place for medication for some and I don't think they have failed. To be honest, if I hadn't found this website and leant about low carb diets I would have taken the advice from my diabetic nurse and eaten all the foods which would have made my condition a lot worse. It's only my opinion, but thought I'd share.


Can I just copy this to save me having to typing out ... "
To be honest, if I hadn't found this website and leant about low carb diets I would have taken the advice from my diabetic nurse and eaten all the foods which would have made my condition a lot worse. It's only my opinion, but thought I'd share.

How true, how very true!

Po
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Can I just copy this to save me having to typing out ... "
To be honest, if I hadn't found this website and leant about low carb diets I would have taken the advice from my diabetic nurse and eaten all the foods which would have made my condition a lot worse. It's only my opinion, but thought I'd share.

How true, how very true!

Po

I think you will find this applies to the vast majority of us!
 

MEValentijn

Active Member
Messages
26
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
We are very fortunate as type 2's because we can manage our diabetes with diet and exercise alone.
This is not true. Most Type 2 diabetics eventually need insulin. If you feel that a different diet changes this, please point me to the published, peer-reviewed research. I'm not interested in a book some guy is selling.

The problem with treating type 2's with insulin and medication is that the insulin worsens insulin resistance and the medication gives you the false impression that you're okay as the diabetes continues to progress -
This is also not true. Insulin resistance is caused by many factors, but insulin itself does not cause it or worsen it.

The more circulating insulin in your body, the more resistant you will become,
Again, not true.

If you want to reduce your insulin resistance it makes sense to reduce carbs and thereby requiring less insulin. Exercise also helps, as does intermittent fasting (such as skipping breakfast).
Requiring less insulin does not impact insulin resistance. Insulin resistance increases insulin production, but increased insulin production does not increase insulin resistance.

Post edited by moderator to remove personal attack on another member
 
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HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
This is not true. Most Type 2 diabetics eventually need insulin. If you feel that a different diet changes this, please point me to the published, peer-reviewed research. I'm not interested in a book some guy is selling.


This is also not true. Insulin resistance is caused by many factors, but insulin itself does not cause it or worsen it.


Again, not true.


Requiring less insulin does not impact insulin resistance. Insulin resistance increases insulin production, but increased insulin production does not increase insulin resistance.


They have a right to make informed decisions without being judged as having given up the "fight" against their disease.



Please explain the source of your opinion. It’s outdated and dangerous. Indeed the attitude that deterioration is inevitable no matter what is the “giving up” your refer to. The giving up any of your self control of your condition. No one in here to my awareness thinks the taking of required medicines designed to supplement life style changes is failure, just far less required than historically believed.

In the meantime I’ll go source some of the research you request and I’m certain that others in here can do so too.
 
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HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
In the meantime take a look at this sub forum. Plenty of anecdotal evidence that low carb works and no one is making any money whatsoever from the vast majority of us in here.
 

MEValentijn

Active Member
Messages
26
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
There's a reason that this part of the forum is dead, despite most Type 2 patients eventually needing insulin - it's because we are constantly inundated with admonitions to avoid insulin because it will supposedly worsen our disease, and constant pushing of a diet which is not the solution for many of us.

Post edited by moderator to remove an attack on other members
 
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Lowcarb 2

Well-Known Member
Messages
99
Type of diabetes
Type 1.5
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
hi,
A little bit about me , I was diagnosed type 2 aug 2014. Been on various meds, currently on metformin, gliclazide, trulicity and humulin I insulin. Try to LCHF with no more than 50g carbs per day. I exercise regularly. my gp has come to the conclusion that I’m very insulin resistant. I’ve been on insulin around 3 months. My blood sugar levels have gradually increased since December with readings between 17 at the lowest and Hi.

I have a couple of questions

1. My Gp believes I an still making plenty of my own insulin (following a c peptide test) any ideas why he has put me on insulin? Surely it is just putting even more insulin in my body that I don’t need.

2. I had a phone call with my diabetic nurse from the hospital today. I explained that my evening dose of insulin (26 units) leaves me sick and not wanting to eat after around 10-15 mins of injecting. She blamed the trulicity for doing this, which I think is bizarre. Any explanations on her thinking?

Thank you.
Hi like you i was diagnosed type 2 in Nov 2016 over the following two years my medication was changed a lot finally after 10 weeks of constant high readings i was put on insulin Nov 2018 recently had a cpetic test which showed my body was also producing insulin but my antibodies result was high therefore I am told this means my antibodies are killing off my own insulin therefore I need to inject to counterbalance the effects this meaning i am now type 1.5 but as I get older I will eventually be classed as a type 1 . I am soon to be 56 and this late onset will advance as I get older
 

Winnie53

BANNED
Messages
2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
[I see that there's been quite a few responses posted since I started and completed my post. I'm responding to MEValentijn only.]

@MEValentijn I work during the day and am watching the Kick Sugar Summit today through Friday, but will try to go back and read your prior posts this week to understand better your experiences and understanding of the science. For now, I will defer to HSSS and others to respond to your statements.

In the meantime, I encourage you and anyone else reading this to attend the Kick Sugar Summit. Pediatric endocrinologist and researcher Robert Lustig, MD is one of the experts today. He, more than anyone else, has helped me to understand metabolic syndrome, pre-diabetes, and type 2 diabetes, obesity too. Some with T2DM have learned how to manage their sugar cravings. Perhaps you have. I do okay, but sometimes struggle, particularly when working long hours or stressed.

The event is free. Each day's experts will only be available for 24 hours. Register here to get the link to each day's presentations... https://kicksugarsummit.com/

Here's the link to today's experts... https://go.kicksugarsummit.com/kss-2019-day1

For now, please know that I have no wish to bully anyone. Some truly need to use insulin or medication.

That said, so long as I can manage my diabetes without medication and/or insulin, I will continue to do so. My fasting glucose level was 124 mg/dl this morning. I crossed over to T2DM in 2005. I'm 14 years into this. I have not previously nor do I currently use medication or insulin. Starting the low carb ketogenic diet in February 2015 changed my life. I average eating 50 carbs a day, take nutritional supplements, and walk frequently. My lab work today, for the most part, is the best it's been in my entire adult life - (I had reactive hypoglycemia in my 20's so it's been a long road for me).
 

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
There's a reason that this part of the forum is dead, despite most Type 2 patients eventually needing insulin - it's because we are constantly inundated with admonitions to avoid insulin because it will supposedly worsen our disease, and constant pushing of a diet which is not the solution for many of us.

Post edited by moderator to remove an attack on members
Perhaps it’s because a reasonable number have delayed or avoided it so far. Or choose to post in other areas of the forum.

Either way I’m not inclined to interact further with your rudeness. If you want a polite discussion let me know and I’ll spend my time looking up some research and evidence you are apparently unaware of.
 

Winnie53

BANNED
Messages
2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@MEValentijn I read all your posts tonight. One of the things I learned is that you have ME/CFS. I'm unfamiliar with that condition, but after reading a brief description, I "get" that it would make doing even the most basic tasks challenging. You've really been through a lot. 10 years is a long time to be so unwell. I'm so sorry.

How are you learning about type 2 diabetes? Google Scholar? Google? YouTube Videos? Books? Diabetes websites/forums? National, regional, or local diabetes organizations? Online education events? Are there any diabetes researchers or clinicians whose work you follow? What I'm trying to understand is where you're getting your information?
 

poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'
There's a reason that this part of the forum is dead, despite most Type 2 patients eventually needing insulin - it's because we are constantly inundated with admonitions to avoid insulin because it will supposedly worsen our disease, and constant pushing of a diet which is not the solution for many of us.

Back off, and stop spreading nonsense.
There's a reason that this part of the forum is dead,

Well this statement is plainly wrong. The numbers don’t lie

despite most Type 2 patients eventually needing insulin - it's because we are constantly inundated with admonitions to avoid insulin because it will supposedly worsen our disease, and constant pushing of a diet which is not the solution for many of us.

Partial true, but mostly outdated and wrong on so many levels. The numbers don’t lie

Back off, and stop spreading nonsense.

“Back off, and stop spreading nonsense” Back at you!

Tut tut! Please at least try and be civil.

All I can attest to is LCHF certainly works for me.


Oh! And countless others, who do not take any notice of advice from people who have not tried or experienced the huge benefits nor taken the time to read up and understand the science behind how it works, and why it works, and for vast numbers of us who are willing to just give it a go and see.


The wise man said “It could not be done”

The fool not knowing this, went out and did it anyway!

I guess that’s me.

Po
 
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poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'
It is a shame that I am unable to view your profile. You must have a good reason to hold the views that you do.
Which I fully respect. We all have the right to hold our own opinions.

I trust your diabetes is well under control.
Po
 

Winnie53

BANNED
Messages
2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@poemagraphic if you click on the search button you can read all of MEValentijn's posts. She's been living with a very challenging medical condition for 10 years and some of the diabetes care she's received has not been helpful. Sadly, the standard of care, a pill for every ill, does not serve us very well. But in fairness to the doctors, it's a real challenge to provide much else in a 6 minute appointment. Thankfully, there are a few exceptionally competent, caring local doctors out there who made a huge difference in my life. I've been very lucky in that regard. And so many doctors who took the time to teach what they've learned through books: Richard Bernstein, MD, Jason Fung, MD, Robert Lustig, MD, Stephen Phinney, MD, Jeff Volek, PhD, Sarah Hallberg, MD, Jeffrey Bland, PhD, the father of Functional medicine, and Mark Hyman, MD who was greatly influenced by Jeffrey Bland's work. Ivor Cunnins, though not an doctor, he's an engineer with a real knack for digging into the research. I could go on...

Edited to add... Terry Wahl, M.D., Nasha Winters, ND.
 
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Winnie53

BANNED
Messages
2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Here's the link for Day 2 of the Kick Sugar Summit... https://go.kicksugarsummit.com/kss-2019-day-2-tues To register and receive the daily links, go here... https://kicksugarsummit.com/

It's going to be a sleepless week. Lots of good interviews...

For anyone who's dealing with cancer, Nasha Winters, ND is interviewed today. She's incredible. She's been living with her cancer for 25 years if I'm remembering correctly, still has cancer, and is not only alive, she's thriving. Going to listen to her interview first today.
 
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HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@poemagraphic if you click on the search button you can read all of MEValentijn's posts. She's been living with a very challenging medical condition for 10 years and some of the diabetes care she's received has not been helpful. Sadly, the standard of care, a pill for every ill, does not serve us very well. But in fairness to the doctors, it's a real challenge to provide much else in a 6 minute appointment. Thankfully, there are a few exceptionally competent, caring local doctors out there who made a huge difference in my life. I've been very lucky in that regard. And so many doctors who took the time to teach what they've learned through books: Richard Bernstein, MD, Jason Fung, MD, Robert Lustig, MD, Stephen Phinney, MD, Jeff Volek, PhD, Sarah Hallberg, MD, Jeffrey Bland, PhD, the father of Functional medicine, and Mark Hyman, MD who was greatly influenced by Jeffrey Bland's work. Ivor Cunnins, though not an doctor, he's an engineer with a real knack for digging into the research. I could go on...

I think it’s the profile rather than previous posts @poemagraphic refers to.

Yes @MEValentijn certainly has had a difficult and complicated journey with diabetes and other conditions complicating the treatments . Her care does seem to have been lacking. But that very fact makes her stand outside the “typical” type 2 experience. In her posts she states she does limit carbs 50-100g and has gone through many different medications (the slow long route unfortunately) for the diabetes before arriving at insulin.

That poor personal experience does not mean everyone or even most will end up there, nor that they should go straight there. She herself has changed her diet to lower carb thus making the statement that a different diet doesn’t change this outcome a little puzzling.

Accusations of spreading false information, bullying and lying aren’t helpful. Nor is accusation of being judgemental or spreading nonsense. Just because low carb wasn’t enough to control her diabetes when put in the context of her ME it does not mean anyone has judged her (she jumped through lots of hoops and had no other options imo) all anyone seems to say is that people should consider other options first . Nor does it mean that it doesn’t work for a good majority of those who try it because it does!

I have compassion for anyone who has had such a difficult journey. I am absolutely fine with alternative experiences and opinions. But sweeping statements not supported that go against the experience of a huge number of forum members passed off as facts is misleading to new members and somewhat the pot calling the kettle black. And as for the abusive comments rather than reasoned and polite discussion of differing views I have no further comment to make

Edit to add @MEValentijn i realise this sounds a little odd as I refer to you in the third person but I was replying to @Winnie53. Please swap she for you etc as appropriate
 

Winnie53

BANNED
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2,374
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Agreed. I think one of the things that people with bad tempers do not understand or choose to ignore, myself included, is how damaging temper is to our relationships. When I suffer an upset, even on the forum like yesterday, I have a hard time sleeping. That said, I've always chosen to help the bad tempered too, but its at a cost. I can do it to a point, but I have my limits too.
 
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