Experiment anyone?

[Richard'63]

I like the idea, even if everybody else hates it. The first thing that we all do on diagnosis is go looking for numbers. They aren't there or at least at the fidelity we are looking for. In the absence of a large controlled trial, citizen science might actually provide a ballpark.
I am a scientist, numbers and test conditions are what I go looking for. So what is the average or SD response to sugars? My practice nurse told me yesterday that blood sugar levels of 7 or 8 might be normal according to the research she had read. There is a thread somewhere on here about the Libre Freestyle it links to one solitary non-diabetic who tested his response to different carb laden stimuli. Even if it is a totally randomized self selected trial it provides a ballpark that follow on work can use.

 

[Guzzler]

I like the idea, even if everybody else hates it. The first thing that we all do on diagnosis is go looking for numbers. They aren't there or at least at the fidelity we are looking for. In the absence of a large controlled trial, citizen science might actually provide a ballpark.
I am a scientist, numbers and test conditions are what I go looking for. So what is the average or SD response to sugars? My practice nurse told me yesterday that blood sugar levels of 7 or 8 might be normal according to the research she had read. There is a thread somewhere on here about the Libre Freestyle it links to one solitary non-diabetic who tested his response to different carb laden stimuli. Even if it is a totally randomized self selected trial it provides a ballpark that follow on work can use.

Oh I would just love to see that research.

 

[lucylocket61]

I have edited that post so it does not confuse you any more...

Oh My Goodness!!! I dont know whether to laugh or blush. Total comprehension fail on my part. Sorry : )))))

 

[Stephen Lewis]

Liver tonight with bacon eggs and steak. (Sorry you UK people, our steak is much cheaper). Totally agree with not comparing since we are all different. I have not eaten a banana since 1/2 came as part of the diabetic diet last year in hospital and I saw what it did to my bg. The breakfast also had oatmeal, a slice of whole wheat bread, grape juice and a portion of not sugar-free jam or marmalade. I assume the dietitian and the chef were getting 'bonuses' from big pharma!

 

[Cocosilk]

Don't ever be discouraged from posting, spikes are very personal and not everyone has the time (or the fingers) to test 6 times after eating but nothing stops you going ahead and discovering what spikes you. I find if I'm not well or stressed that food that doesn't usually make much of a spike do. At the moment I'm trying to move house, have broken my big toe, am encased in a horrible black orthopaedic boot and told me to stay in bed with it elevated not to use my crutches for more than 5 steps. Everything seems to be spiking me including the fracture clinic consultant who seemed to suggest I was heading for dementia as I had no idea how or when I'd broken my toe. When I told him I had diabetic neuropathy and couldn't actually feel my feet he seemed to think I was definitely headed for dementia. With another six weeks in this boot I think I will be demented by the time I go back!
PS I am using my crutches for more than 5 steps as I'm not staying in bed for more than sleeping, I've got boxes to pack!

Meanwhile my biggest problem of the day is that yet again, after my first bite of breakfast, which only happened at 11:40am, both my almost 3yo and 4.5yo each on one toilet upstairs and one downstairs are calling out saying "Mummy!!! I did a POOoooooo!" and they are both hoping I'll wipe their bums.. appetizing thought over breakfast. And my 4.5yo should be wiping her own bum by now but her father, who has been the washer woman since baby #3 arrived 6 weeks ago, doesn't want the poo presents in her pants to have to wash out
I'm sorry for all your troubles. I once had to move house and pack when I had just broken (and had surgery on) my wrist which had been shattered during a game of muck around soccer. Luckily it was my left wrist but I had to hire help for lifting boxes. One other time I moved I was still breastfeeding but went too long between feeds being busy packing and ended uo with mastitis.. fun fun. But being told you might have dementia still beats that...

 

[Cocosilk]

Liver tonight with bacon eggs and steak. (Sorry you UK people, our steak is much cheaper). Totally agree with not comparing since we are all different. I have not eaten a banana since 1/2 came as part of the diabetic diet last year in hospital and I saw what it did to my bg. The breakfast also had oatmeal, a slice of whole wheat bread, grape juice and a portion of not sugar-free jam or marmalade. I assume the dietitian and the chef were getting 'bonuses' from big pharma!

Yes shocking food in hospitals that they serve up to the ill... I just gave birth and when I was ordering my meals, eggs were not even an option on the official breakfast menu and I only got them as a special request saying I'd had gestational diabetes and didn't want to go back to eating cornflakes...

 

[jefff]

For me monitoring BG every 30 minutes is not really useful (although it is a curious thing to experiment). The two-hour mark after meal is the most important. If I can have my glucose level back to normal within 2 hours, I'll be satisfied. If after 2 hours I still see a high number, I'd be curious to test my BG the next hour to make sure it is already normal by then.

 

[Cocosilk]

For me monitoring BG every 30 minutes is not really useful (although it is a curious thing to experiment). The two-hour mark after meal is the most important. If I can have my glucose level back to normal within 2 hours, I'll be satisfied. If after 2 hours I still see a high number, I'd be curious to test my BG the next hour to make sure it is already normal by then.

I wouldn't test every 30 mins as a rule either. I just wanted to work out what spikes me higher at which point out of curiosity.
I also understand the 2 hour mark is known as the point to watch to see if things are back to normal, but I think if I test at 1h and see a spike to 8s and 9s, it may only be a matter of time if I keep eating that before the 2h level stops returning to 5s or 6s and starts staying in the 7s till 3 hours. So cumulatively, I think high spikes matter when trying to tweak your diet.

Some don't care though. I have a cousin about the same age as (43yo) who has had diabetes for a while. She hides the fact that she lives on lollies (as her mother told me) and now she's already lost a toe and is on dialysis. That's obviously an extreme case because she probably doesn't test much or dose her insulin well (although it sounds tricky for everyone to get the dose spot on), but keeping.her head in the sand about the sweets is a shame for her health. In that way, carbs are just as addictive and dangerous as street drugs.

 

[JohnEGreen]

For me monitoring BG every 30 minutes is not really useful (although it is a curious thing to experiment). The two-hour mark after meal is the most important. If I can have my glucose level back to normal within 2 hours, I'll be satisfied. If after 2 hours I still see a high number, I'd be curious to test my BG the next hour to make sure it is already normal by then.

Each to their own I tend to test at one hour then two hours this shows me if I have returned to near normal after the two hour mark but also tells me what my peak reading was and lets me know what my immediate reaction to a particular meal was as I don't like even short term hyperglycemic episodes.

 

[MeiChanski]

At 30mins, if I'm correct, your body is still trying to digest whatever you was eating. Hence it'll be somewhat inaccurate. I think a study like this would have too many variations for a qualitative study. if it's a quantitative study with two variables in this case T2 and blood sugar spikes, narrowed it down to 2 groups - young 18-25 (there are some young people being diagnosed with T2 now) and elderly for argument's sake 40+. It'll be a timetable of routine tests at 1hr-2hr mark, same foods for breakfast, lunch and dinner, same activities everyday and sleep at a scheduled time. It won't take into account hormones, stress, height, weight etc. But as we all know we have to take into account how ethical it will be to get T2's who know carbs will make them ill and their BG will go haywire.

 

[lovinglife]

Elderly? 40+??? OMG - you know I used to quite like you @MeiChanski

 

[MeiChanski]

Elderly? 40+??? OMG - you know I used to quite like you @MeiChanski

Oh I’m sorry, the mature group of young lovely men and women

 

[jefff]

I just wanted to work out what spikes me higher at which point out of curiosity.
I also understand the 2 hour mark is known as the point to watch to see if things are back to normal, but I think if I test at 1h and see a spike to 8s and 9s, it may only be a matter of time if I keep eating that before the 2h level stops returning to 5s or 6s and starts staying in the 7s till 3 hours. So cumulatively, I think high spikes matter when trying to tweak your diet.

I agree with you on the importance of knowing what meals spike at which point. I think that's key to better diet management. My peak BG is mostly at two hour and down after that. Why I always peak at two hour mark confuses me actually

Some don't care though. I have a cousin about the same age as (43yo) who has had diabetes for a while. She hides the fact that she lives on lollies (as her mother told me) and now she's already lost a toe and is on dialysis. That's obviously an extreme case because she probably doesn't test much or dose her insulin well (although it sounds tricky for everyone to get the dose spot on), but keeping.her head in the sand about the sweets is a shame for her health. In that way, carbs are just as addictive and dangerous as street drugs.

Sorry to hear about your cousin. But diabetes medication could be so perplexing even when one has tried hard to dose it right.

 

[jefff]

Each to their own I tend to test at one hour then two hours this shows me if I have returned to near normal after the two hour mark but also tells me what my peak reading was and lets me know what my immediate reaction to a particular meal was as I don't like even short term hyperglycemic episodes.

I have been testing a lot these days and whenever I tested at precisely one hour, it always wasn't the peak. I would peak, at the fastest, one and a half hours after meal and mostly 2 hours. Knowing the trend, I stopped testing at one hour and started testing only at two hours. I don't know why I peak at two hours. It's a bit distressing tome

 

[Cocosilk]

I agree with you on the importance of knowing what meals spike at which point. I think that's key to better diet management. My peak BG is mostly at two hour and down after that. Why I always peak at two hour mark confuses me actually


Sorry to hear about your cousin. But diabetes medication could be so perplexing even when one has tried hard to dose it right.

Have you ever asked your doctor about the timing of your post meal peaks? I've read and seen different ideas about postprandial peaks and levels and there doesn't seem to be any consensus and it confuses me too.
A lot of people only test at 2 hours and aim to be below the targets they are given by their doctors. What targets were you told? May I enquire how long you've been prediabetic?

 

[Cocosilk]

At 30mins, if I'm correct, your body is still trying to digest whatever you was eating. Hence it'll be somewhat inaccurate. I think a study like this would have too many variations for a qualitative study. if it's a quantitative study with two variables in this case T2 and blood sugar spikes, narrowed it down to 2 groups - young 18-25 (there are some young people being diagnosed with T2 now) and elderly for argument's sake 40+. It'll be a timetable of routine tests at 1hr-2hr mark, same foods for breakfast, lunch and dinner, same activities everyday and sleep at a scheduled time. It won't take into account hormones, stress, height, weight etc. But as we all know we have to take into account how ethical it will be to get T2's who know carbs will make them ill and their BG will go haywire.

It was never going to be a very scientific experiment. More a chance for newbies who are still eating fruit and tweaking their diets to learn about their own bs patterns and hopefully hear from more experienced people about theirs (from previous experience is fine - I never expected a strict low carber to go back to eating something they know hurts them.)

And don't worry @lovinglife, I'm not only elderly by that description but I've also been told that new mums in their 40s are also classed as 'geriatric mothers'... ha ha
Maybe we are missing something and the 50s are the new centarians. And that would make anyone as old as my 81 year old father an "un-dead"...

 

[TriciaWs]

I did a few small experiments on myself, to calculate how many berries I can eat and how much low carb bread - but I was trying to avoid spikes as I already have non-diabetic peripheral neuropathy and was not going to deliberately spike and do more damage. So I started small and increased the amount each day until I saw a bigger rise than I wanted. Just below that was my upper limit for these foods.
Even now I'm in remission I am conscious about how my body reacted to these - so 1.5 slices of lowest carb bread in any day is still my limit, and often none.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have been testing a lot these days and whenever I tested at precisely one hour, it always wasn't the peak. I would peak, at the fastest, one and a half hours after meal and mostly 2 hours. Knowing the trend, I stopped testing at one hour and started testing only at two hours. I don't know why I peak at two hours. It's a bit distressing tome

If your peaks are normally around 2 hours or later it could indicate that your first insulin response is lacking, it could also indicate that your food choices are mainly slow release carbs. Or both. Or neither! I would go with the first insulin response being weak.

 

[jefff]

Have you ever asked your doctor about the timing of your post meal peaks? I've read and seen different ideas about postprandial peaks and levels and there doesn't seem to be any consensus and it confuses me too.
A lot of people only test at 2 hours and aim to be below the targets they are given by their doctors. What targets were you told? May I enquire how long you've been prediabetic?

I've been prediabetic for a couple of years now. My target is pretty 'standard' which is below 140mg/dl (7.7mmol/l) after two hours. I usually don't eat much carb but when I do, the BG spike worries me

 

[Cocosilk]

I've been prediabetic for a couple of years now. My target is pretty 'standard' which is below 140mg/dl (7.7mmol/l) after two hours. I usually don't eat much carb but when I do, the BG spike worries me

Sounds a bit like me. I'm not sure how high your carb spikes are that worry you but if I saw 8s, 9s and 10s, it was harder for mine to be under the 6.7 target I was given for gestational diabetes.
Now I'm eating low carb and my levels stay in the 5s and 6s mostly with some in the 7s if I eat a few homemade pancakes, but I can get away with a good slice of my husband's sourdough rye bread and a few raspberries with my 3 eggs in the morning and stay under 7 usually by the 2 h mark.
I still think for the long term, most of my meals will not contain any grain derived carbs anymore. I'll just have the one slice of sourdough before lunch to give me more time to burn it off.
If something you eat causes a spike that worries you, replace it with protein & fat instead. It's not worth risking having your levels continue to rise if you are able to prevent that by eating differently.
What do your meals usually look like at the moment?