High carb bolus?

[Robinredbreast]

What I class as higher carbs is different from someone else's, but I find splitting the dose. 20 minutes before a meal and then the rest at the start of the meal, works for me. Also, I personally just can't eat what I want and inject for it, nor do I want to, if someone has porridge for breakfast and it's a guestimate of 40 carbs and has a good number afterwards, then good for them, but I couldn't cope with it, especially in the morning, I know my capabilites regarding diabetes and what normally works for me.
A useful thread @porl69

 

[kitedoc]

Or just remove the number from the end: https://www.ted.com/talks/margaret_heffernan_the_dangers_of_willful_blindness works.

Thank you @helensaramay

 

[therower]

@porl69 . Great question.
As someone who dislikes the numbers game of diabetes I tend not to overthink exact this and that.
A high carb meal?
Well I visualise a set of those old style scales in my head. My biggest concern is to stop either side from bottoming out.
On the left side I load my carb count ( estimated usually ). On the right side goes the insulin.
My time as a type 1 has taught me to consider certain things that will tip the scales one way or another.
Planned activities or not, time of day, current BS levels, type of carbs, consideration for fat content.
This is all done in my head and tends to be “ that’s close enough “
I appreciate this may appear very lax and to some slightly foolhardy. Here’s the thing.
1. 28 yrs still going strong. No other medical problems. Just a dodgy pancreas.
2. I’m extremely happy doing it this way. Yes , sometimes the darn scales bottom out. I’m a firm believer that we learn more from these negative moments than the positive ones.
3. I don’t claim to be an expert and never state my way is “ the way . “
4. I prefer to learn from guys and gals on this forum. Non diabetic experts, Professors, studies, papers and countless YouTube presentations by Dr X , Y or Z hold no interest to me.
In summary. High carb meal......I look , I decide, I inject, I live with whatever the meter says later.

 

[kitedoc]

Everyone is entitled to their way of doing things whether high carb diet or whatever.
And history is proving that we have been deceived.
That may not matter to everyone except that diabetes complications from the pizzas and every orher type of processed food is showing up as a problem.
The problem with TID in particular is that it takes time for problems to show up.
And whether one wishes to undertake a head in the sand approach ir whatever, there are statements asserting that most if not all TIDs can be found to have signs of diabetic complications, often subtle, within a relatively short time after diagnosis.
Doctors by not examining thoroughly can be guilty if wilful blindness in not finding these problems.
Ignorance is not bliss in the long term when it comes to pizza and all.
Pizza was originally peasant food, eaten because of poverty and corrupted over time by food companies, dressed up but using the cheapest ingredients including the questionable vegetable oils ( which may possibly turn to trans fat when cooked ( watch this space) and processed flour.
No wonder it is such a challenge to manage BSL-wise but if that is your choice so be it. But what is normal when we have been bombarded by advertising? We might ignore all the scientific data offered but then we, to be absolutely non-partial, would need to avow all food and pharmaceutical advertising and its influences on us as well.

 

[Marie 2]

My last A1C was 6%. And that includes dosing for pizza (vegan) when I want to. Whole wheat crust, tons of veggies, hold the cheese.

 

[porl69]

Everyone is entitled to their way of doing things whether high carb diet or whatever.
And history is proving that we have been deceived.
That may not matter to everyone except that diabetes complications from the pizzas and every orher type of processed food is showing up as a problem.
The problem with TID in particular is that it takes time for problems to show up.
And whether one wishes to undertake a head in the sand approach ir whatever, there are statements asserting that most if not all TIDs can be found to have signs of diabetic complications, often subtle, within a relatively short time after diagnosis.
Doctors by not examining thoroughly can be guilty if wilful blindness in not finding these problems.
Ignorance is not bliss in the long term when it comes to pizza and all.
Pizza was originally peasant food, eaten because of poverty and corrupted over time by food companies, dressed up but using the cheapest ingredients including the questionable vegetable oils ( which may possibly turn to trans fat when cooked ( watch this space) and processed flour.
No wonder it is such a challenge to manage BSL-wise but if that is your choice so be it. But what is normal when we have been bombarded by advertising? We might ignore all the scientific data offered but then we, to be absolutely non-partial, would need to avow all food and pharmaceutical advertising and its influences on us as well.

@kitedoc I am not asking about the "complications" with eating pizza etc, I am asking how people would bolus for it! I enjoy a pizza now and again and I also eat a high carb diet. Getting a few ideas on how people bolus for these types of food is all I am after!

 

[Robinredbreast]

@kitedoc I am not asking about the "complications" with eating pizza etc, I am asking how people would bolus for it! I enjoy a pizza now and again and I also eat a high carb diet. Getting a few ideas on how people bolus for these types of food is all I am after!

Hi @po69rl,most know this isn't a debate thread about a number's game, I eat a reduced or moderate carb intake also the title of the thread says it all. ps My pizza is normally a gf pitta bread with my own toppings, 20 carbs for the pitta bread and daughter likes it too.

 

[Deleted Account]

My understanding is that complications due to diabetes are due to high blood sugars ... not directly high carb meals.
(Processed food is different to high carb food. Coffee, for example, is a processed food.)

I do not see this thread (or any on the forum) are condoning high carb food for every meal for someone with diabetes ... as I don't think someone who cares about their body would condone a high carb diet for anyone regardless of any medical conditions.

If through this thread, people who take insulin learn ways eat to the higher carb meals when they want them without increasing their BG, I think this thread is elevated from the "bit of fun" some may consider it to an incredibly useful resource.

So, we can eat pizza, every now and then, without getting

diabetes complications from the pizzas

 

[LooperCat]

Food isn’t just fuel - it’s a cultural and sociable bonding tool.

So... sometimes we choose to eat the same as everybody else at an event, a wedding, a funeral etc. If I can, I try to eat vege/pescatarian low carb food, but it’s not always possible. Obviously I have to avoid meat/dairy because I’m so allergic to it - and the low carb options of many meals away from home are very meat based. So sometimes I might need to eat more carbohydrate than I usually would, and I need to know how to dose for it. I still need that skill. So threads like this are spectacularly useful, thank you for starting it, @porl69

“Just fast” isn’t always the answer either. The NE in DAFNE stands for “Normal Eating”, let’s not forget. Not “healthy eating”. It means we can join in and not suffer horrendous glycemic excursions because we can Dose Adjust. Pizzas and takeaway curries are a treat, not an everyday food (that’s where the trouble is - when a treat becomes an everyday food) - nobody should be living off them, after all. But it’s an essential part of our skill set as a T1 to be able to adapt and adjust and sometimes just have the unhealthy option for the sheer heck of it. I refuse to turn into a sanctimonious fun-sponge just because it’s easier for me insulin-wise not to eat carbs. It’s bad enough that I can’t eat meat.

I had a jam doughnut the other day. Spiked to 8.4, was back to normal in two hours - so it looks like I managed to Dose Adjust For Normal Eating there

 

[therower]

Everyone is entitled to their way of doing things whether high carb diet or whatever.
And history is proving that we have been deceived.
That may not matter to everyone except that diabetes complications from the pizzas and every orher type of processed food is showing up as a problem.
The problem with TID in particular is that it takes time for problems to show up.
And whether one wishes to undertake a head in the sand approach ir whatever, there are statements asserting that most if not all TIDs can be found to have signs of diabetic complications, often subtle, within a relatively short time after diagnosis.
Doctors by not examining thoroughly can be guilty if wilful blindness in not finding these problems.
Ignorance is not bliss in the long term when it comes to pizza and all.
Pizza was originally peasant food, eaten because of poverty and corrupted over time by food companies, dressed up but using the cheapest ingredients including the questionable vegetable oils ( which may possibly turn to trans fat when cooked ( watch this space) and processed flour.
No wonder it is such a challenge to manage BSL-wise but if that is your choice so be it. But what is normal when we have been bombarded by advertising? We might ignore all the scientific data offered but then we, to be absolutely non-partial, would need to avow all food and pharmaceutical advertising and its influences on us as well.

But you’ve not really answered the question.
We didn’t ask for a lecture, just how you deal with a high carb meal.
If you don’t eat high carb meals then there really is no need to concern yourself with this thread.

 

[kitedoc]

Have you looked at the podcasts i mentioned above? Fat Emperor E25?
And what example are you giving those who are newly diagnosed?
One answer is to not eat it in the first place. A negative answer is still a valid answer, and then justified.

 

[kitedoc]

Food isn’t just fuel - it’s a cultural and sociable bonding tool.

So... sometimes we choose to eat the same as everybody else at an event, a wedding, a funeral etc. If I can, I try to eat vege/pescatarian low carb food, but it’s not always possible. Obviously I have to avoid meat/dairy because I’m so allergic to it - and the low carb options of many meals away from home are very meat based. So sometimes I might need to eat more carbohydrate than I usually would, and I need to know how to dose for it. I still need that skill. So threads like this are spectacularly useful, thank you for starting it, @porl69

“Just fast” isn’t always the answer either. The NE in DAFNE stands for “Normal Eating”, let’s not forget. Not “healthy eating”. It means we can join in and not suffer horrendous glycemic excursions because we can Dose Adjust. Pizzas and takeaway curries are a treat, not an everyday food (that’s where the trouble is - when a treat becomes an everyday food) - nobody should be living off them, after all. But it’s an essential part of our skill set as a T1 to be able to adapt and adjust and sometimes just have the unhealthy option for the sheer heck of it. I refuse to turn into a sanctimonious fun-sponge just because it’s easier for me insulin-wise not to eat carbs. It’s bad enough that I can’t eat meat.

I had a jam doughnut the other day. Spiked to 8.4, was back to normal in two hours - so it looks like I managed to Dose Adjust For Normal Eating there

But what is normal eating? certainly not what is always healthy but is that normal or just what Big Food has dictated?
How has our culture got so screwed up that we have large numbers of the population now diagnosable as having metabolic syndrome?
Do we subscribe to that?

 

[kitedoc]

My understanding is that complications due to diabetes are due to high blood sugars ... not directly high carb meals.
(Processed food is different to high carb food. Coffee, for example, is a processed food.)

I do not see this thread (or any on the forum) are condoning high carb food for every meal for someone with diabetes ... as I don't think someone who cares about their body would condone a high carb diet for anyone regardless of any medical conditions.

If through this thread, people who take insulin learn ways eat to the higher carb meals when they want them without increasing their BG, I think this thread is elevated from the "bit of fun" some may consider it to an incredibly useful resource.

So, we can eat pizza, every now and then, without getting

High carb food includes for all intents and purposes processed foods. Coffee of course but then so is tea etc etc.

 

[Antje77]

Please stay on topic. We all understand that the way you deal with it, @kitedoc , is to not eat those foods. You're welcome to start new threads with all the questions you've posted above.

 

[Cobia]

Food isn’t just fuel - it’s a cultural and sociable bonding tool.



I had a jam doughnut the other day. Spiked to 8.4, was back to normal in two hours - so it looks like I managed to Dose Adjust For Normal Eating there

Question in the name of social bonding.

Jam donut... 45 carb + sugar.. to stop it at 8.5 fair effort... what was the reading at 4hrs?

Got another challenge for you...
Raise the stakes...

Steak mushroom pie ,,, steak onion pie + the jam donut..

What would the insulin does be to keep it under 10 and no hypo im still trying to work it out...

 

[LooperCat]

Question in the name of social bonding.

Jam donut... 45 carb + sugar.. to stop it at 8.5 fair effort... what was the reading at 4hrs?

Got another challenge for you...
Raise the stakes...

Steak mushroom pie ,,, steak onion pie + the jam donut..

What would the insulin does be to keep it under 10 and no hypo im still trying to work it out...

After fours hours? 4.7mmol.

But if you’d read my post, you’d see I don’t eat meat. So I’ll pass on the pie, thanks

 

[Cobia]

Is that a pie with a proper Northern Crust you can use to patch a dam with?

Pie with Jam Doughnut? NO wrong on so many levels.

Depends on how much carb is in it and what your ratio is.

Me well lest see more likely 40% for the pie then +20% for the doughnut :***: then watch what happens via Libre once I see it going up maybe inject the rest or do another 50:50 spilt over the next few hours.

This can also depend on which insulins your on, the one I use I know roughly it will take 30minutes + for it to hit so I might drift over the 10 mark while it is start to take effect.

In Aus... the humble meat pie... 1 is about 45 carbs protien is a question mark... my guess for what i listed 120-130 carb + the jam in the donut + the protien.... = 3 types of fuel which is a rocket thru 10....

Food choices is fuel choices.

Cheers

 

[therower]

Have you looked at the podcasts i mentioned above? Fat Emperor E25?
And what example are you giving those who are newly diagnosed?
One answer is to not eat it in the first place. A negative answer is still a valid answer, and then justified.

Your 3 questions.
No.
No.
I wasn’t asked to set an example for newly diagnosed.
Quote...” one answer is to not eat in the first place.” Great advice for someone new to a life changing condition.

 

[Cobia]

Catch is last reading is 4.9 trend down......

Either way great stuff.

 

[porl69]

Hey @porl69 you still after info?

Well here is last nights tea Spag Bol and Garlic bread all in all round 100g maybe more not sure

So I split the dose, yes I know I was starting from a low point but still same thing applies and this was the chart: Basically 5u and 6u

I did add an extra 1u in before bed which is not shown on here and work up around the 6.5 mark and thats not doing any other corrections during the night.

Wow. Got that on the nail. Congrats