Low carb type 1

Natalie007

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Hi there,

My son is 13 and been type 1 since he was 7. He would like to try going low carb to see if it makes any difference to his blood sugar numbers and how he feels.

Can anyone advise on how to work out the insulin ratio for protein only meals? At the moment he is on 1 unit novorapid for 10g carbs.

Also do some people correct a few hours after red meat? Any advice appreciated!

Thanks
 
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himtoo

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why can't everyone get on........
bolusing for no carb meals as a type 1 is a totally individul thing --- a starting point is 0.4 protein per carb ( there are many things to google and read )
but you MUST discuss this with your care team and make any adjustments slowly -- D lasts a lifetime so change can happen over weeeks and months not hours or days !!!
 
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EllieM

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but you MUST discuss this with your care team and make any adjustments slowly -- D lasts a lifetime so change can happen over weeeks and months not hours or days !!!

Plus bear in mind that puberty (particularly for boys) means that there are likely to be large changes in dietary needs and insulin requirements. The amount that teenage boys can eat never ceases to amaze me.
 

kitedoc

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Hi @Natalie007,
Good on your son for thinking about his condition and what might improve it. And to you for enquiring about it.

From reading about and trying and staying on a low carb diet myself, but not as medical or dietitian advice or opinion:
The best approach i found was by reading Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution, book or e book.

There is a section in there that talks about the various protein needs of people, including teenagers.
Of course as is also pointed out in that book there is also a need to ensure that vitamin and mineral intake is adequate.

The other source of help with very low carbohydrate diets is dietdoctor.com, although this is aimed more at people wishing to go the further step of going into what is called nutritional ketosis, or fat burning. The difference between the ketosis caused by insufficient insulin and high Bsls which can lead to the very dangerous condition of diabetic keto-acidosis and the benign condition of nutritional ketosis is touched upon there.

Some important points about low carb approach:

health professionals may not be au fait with low carb diets and worry about research findings about such diets or about the fact that low carb means more protein and fat intake ( despite newer research findings showing no link between fat and heart disease ( except to do with transfats)). To refute such concerns from them , subscribe to zoeharcombe.com, whose work and articles debunk the research regarding saturated fate etc as cause/ risk of heart disease, same for low carb diets.

Dietitians may still believe that a persons needs 150 g carb plus per day to supply enough glucose for the brain to function and the type of 'usual' diabetic diets tend mirror this ( at least for the 52 years i have been on insulin). But again via Dr Harcombe and through recommendations in Dr Bernstein's book the need for carbs is quoted as 30 g carbs per day or less.
Why? If you ask any dietitian how Eskimos have survived over the centuries, woman, men and children on zero carbs most of the time ( maybe some berries in the tundra in spring)??? they are unlikely to have an answer. The theory about 150 g carbs plus per day flys out the window.

As explained in the references above, the liver can turn soare protein in the diet into glucose and only about 1/5 th of the brain needs glucose exclusively. 1/5 x 150 g = about 30 g, which can be from carb food or protein.

On a low carb diet less insulin is needed and that means close collaboration between doctor/nurse about adjusting insulin doses to avoid hypos and the understanding that on a very low carb diet that protein intake needs to be considered in calculating the insulin dose.
This is discussed in the book.

I was diagnosed ay age 13. , 52 years ago well before glucometers, fancy insulins, pumos, pens or cgm. The most challenging years so far were from age 13 to about 20, when i would note periodic increases in appetite associated with sugar showing up in the urine and thus need to increase insulin doses sometimes x2 or more of my daily doses for some weeks before the hypos began and i knew to decrease .my insulin doses. These episodes were explained as growth spurts where the growth hormones would surge and make my insulin less effective.

And whilst low carb diets were not in fashion back then i do know i really increased my protein intake, and there were few dietitins back then to ask, but i had found that protein helped best to ease hungervwithout seeming to increase bsls ( sugar in the urine) as much.

One of the beauties of low carb diet i found and read about is that because less insulin is needed there is less risk of hypos in general. Dr Bernstein calls this the law of small numbers. I imagine like me your son has suffered the hypo/hyper see-saw where a hypo occurs, then this leads to a rebound to a high bsl ( due to release if glucose stores from the liver due to adrenaline and glucagon release plus taking food to combat the hypo), then more insulin to correct the hyper possibly leading to another hypo and so on. Less insulin needs = less swings up and down.
As long as there is enough insulin for growth, maintaining bsls in a good range that is the ideal talked about.

What about growth in the teenagers years? This has been a torpedo favourite against low carb diets for children launched by dietitian organisations around the world. To refute this the following study is helpful:
Pediatrics May, 2018. Management of Type One Diabetes by Very Low Carbohydrate Diet. Authors: Ludwig et al
This study looked at adults and children ( including teenagres) on diets with about 20 to 40 g carb per day and showed best HBAIcs, lowest bsl variation, slightly above normal growth parameters in the children/teenagers and lowest hypo rate of any study of TIDs.

Low carb diets can vary by definition from say 120 g carbs per day down to 20 g per day. So there is no absolute need for a person to go very low carb ( say, less than 50 g carbs per day). Just that seems to be where most focus for TIDs seems to be at present.

The fact that TIDs may find their insulin is less effective in the morning compared to later in the day, or that some suffer from the Dawn phenomenon ( DP) and others do not is still a reality for those on low carb diets as far as i have read on forums ( on this site's Home or Forum page, if you type in Dawn Phenomenon in Question Box upper right of page, a description of DP is given).

The following forums may be helpful regarding low carb diets in TIDs:
Type One True Grit, Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Advocates.

Best Wishes to you both and please keep asking questions as you go :):):)
 
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Natalie007

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Hi

That’s great thank you so much for all that info it’s just what I was looking for!

I have Dr Bernstein’s book so I’ll get reading and I’ve joined Type 1 grit. I’m not diabetic myself but I’ve followed low carb many times. I think 50g a day sounds good! I’ll keep an eye on nutrition however protein with veg and salad is already way better for him than white pasta, bread and croissants anyway!

I can’t speak to the healthcare team Ive tried this many times, they won’t support low carb, especially for a growing teenager.

He does suffer with DP. We will just have to keep an eye.

He’s into rugby so doesn’t want the pump. It’s injections only. In the past he’s had low carb ish meals, but always a few carbs so I know to just count the carbs really, say 35 carbs is 3.5 units and that’s all I’ve counted. Once I remove the carbs or if they’re very low, that’s where I’m a bit lost. So I think I will start with adding up the protein and going for 50% of that for the injection? Also many people are saying they inject pretty much as they eat or just after for red meats because of the long digestion time?

Might be trial and error for a little while!
Thanks again
Natalie
 

ert

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Welcome. I would recommend that you made an appointment with your diabetes consultant and diabetes nurse to help guide you and to monitor your progress. I'm new to insulin and following Bernstein, but not on my own. My medical consultant, diabetes nurse and GP are advising and tracking my progress. Good luck.
 
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hh1

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Hi @Natalie007, I can't help much as whilst I eat lower carb than I used to, I don't eat low carb. I'll tag @Mel dCP who's T1 on v low carb and may be able to help. Good luck!
 
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Natalie007

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Hi @Natalie007, I can't help much as whilst I eat lower carb than I used to, I don't eat low carb. I'll tag @Mel dCP who's T1 on v low carb and may be able to help. Good luck!
Thank you! I’m thinking 50g a day so it’s not as strict as Bernstein. That’s an allowance of 15g at each meal. It’s more just finding out about what to do if he wanted a carb free meal. Thanks
 

Natalie007

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Welcome. I would recommend that you made an appointment with your diabetes consultant and diabetes nurse to help guide you and to monitor your progress. I'm new to insulin and following Bernstein, but not on my own. My medical consultant, diabetes nurse and GP are advising and tracking my progress. Good luck.
That’s great! I’m glad they are on side with you. My diabetic team are against low carb at the moment. They promote 150grams a day ‍♀️ Thanks
 

LooperCat

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I dose for carbs at 1u:10g and lean fish protein at 1u:20g over 3-4 hours usually. I don’t need to for plant protein, eggs and fatty fish, but everyone is different x
 

ert

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That’s great! I’m glad they are on side with you. My diabetic team are against low carb at the moment. They promote 150grams a day ‍♀️ Thanks
Most of them are. I certainly got that on the first pass. There was one consultant prepared to support me from the team after some medical discussion, and the nurses just follow their lead. Document when you get good results and how you managed them. Be prepared to back up your ideas from your research.
Here is a great place to start: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/children-and-low-carb-diets.html This really supports what you are trying to do.
 
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Natalie007

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Most of them are. I certainly got that on the first pass. There was one consultant prepared to support me from the team after some medical discussion, and the nurses just follow their lead. Document when you get good results and how you managed them. Be prepared to back up your ideas from your research.
Here is a great place to start: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/children-and-low-carb-diets.html This really supports what you are trying to do.
Brilliant thanks for that
 

Natalie007

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I dose for carbs at 1u:10g and lean fish protein at 1u:20g over 3-4 hours usually. I don’t need to for plant protein, eggs and fatty fish, but everyone is different x
Thanks Mel. That’s the same ratio as him so let’s me know that’s s good place to start. So when you say over 3-4 hours I assume you’re on the pump? My son is on injections. I guess I’ll just have to check after 3/4 hours to see what’s happened and check if a correction is needed. Thanks
 

LooperCat

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Thanks Mel. That’s the same ratio as him so let’s me know that’s s good place to start. So when you say over 3-4 hours I assume you’re on the pump? My son is on injections. I guess I’ll just have to check after 3/4 hours to see what’s happened and check if a correction is needed. Thanks
I am now, but when I was injecting I’d do a third or a quarter of the protein dose every hour after the meal and the carbs dose when I ate.
 

kitedoc

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That’s great! I’m glad they are on side with you. My diabetic team are against low carb at the moment. They promote 150grams a day ‍♀️ Thanks
As I said earlier, ask you team how Inuits and Laplanders survive on zero carbs. They are out of date!! And ask them to read Dr Bernstein and then see what they say. One assumes that his health team's minds are like parachutes - they work because they are open.
Counting say 50% of the grams of protein towards carbs, as per Dr Bernstein, is a way to calculate required insulin but because some protein is slowly converted to glucose by the liver on the < say 40 g carbs per day, the short acting insulins these days might act too quickly.
That is why on a pump the short-acting insulin is dosed in a split matter. An example is say 50% of the calculated dose before the meal and the remaining 50% 2 hours later. or as per @Mel dCP above.
For issues about growth in children, I would suggest presenting the article Pediatrics May 2018 Managing Type One Diabetes with Very Low Carbohydrate Diet - Authors: Ludwig et al. Can they refute these findings? They are scientific, so that could support your argument for low carb.
More literature: For anything to do with worries about fat intake and cholesterol, I would suggest you subscribe to zoeharcombe.com. She is a Welsh nutritionist PhD who has researched saturated fat and heart disease and every trial involving cholesterol plus critiqued the false science articles to do with low carb diet and heart disease etc.
Your son does have a choice to decide what he wishes to do with diet (even under the age of 18 there is a thing called the Gillick principle) and (no as a legal opinion but as a suggestion) he can put that to his doctors and /or ask for your support in making a decision. Just because a health team does not like it they do have a duty of care to treat your son.
 

kitedoc

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Hi @Natalie007, I have just watched a great video of a talk given by a father of a TID in USA, of his son's progress ages 5 to 14 which I think will persuade any reasonably open-minded health team. It includes some good scientific references and things about True Grit.
hyyp://www.lesterhightower.com/diabetes/CWDFFL-2019-Orlando or look up on youtube
Best Wishes
 

NicoleC1971

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Hi

That’s great thank you so much for all that info it’s just what I was looking for!

I have Dr Bernstein’s book so I’ll get reading and I’ve joined Type 1 grit. I’m not diabetic myself but I’ve followed low carb many times. I think 50g a day sounds good! I’ll keep an eye on nutrition however protein with veg and salad is already way better for him than white pasta, bread and croissants anyway!

I can’t speak to the healthcare team Ive tried this many times, they won’t support low carb, especially for a growing teenager.

He does suffer with DP. We will just have to keep an eye.

He’s into rugby so doesn’t want the pump. It’s injections only. In the past he’s had low carb ish meals, but always a few carbs so I know to just count the carbs really, say 35 carbs is 3.5 units and that’s all I’ve counted. Once I remove the carbs or if they’re very low, that’s where I’m a bit lost. So I think I will start with adding up the protein and going for 50% of that for the injection? Also many people are saying they inject pretty much as they eat or just after for red meats because of the long digestion time?

Might be trial and error for a little while!
Thanks again
Natalie
Hi Natalie. I do low carb too and if my sons were type 1 I'd want them to do what you are doing to prevent complications and the rollercoasters.
An assumption of 0.5/10g bolus is a good assumption but do you have an fsl or other cgm type device? Just while you are adjusting things. He is likely to become extremely insulin resistant during growth spurts so watch out (it is a natural thing to allow growth so will need more insulin).
If he is active and growing lots then you may need to add plenty of butter/cheese onto his protein just to fuel him.
Great that you are on GRIT and Bernstein. Another good resource also by a type 1 (but possibly more relateable than Doctor B is
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bright-Spo...86&hvtargid=pla-417622036263&psc=1&th=1&psc=1
It was also available as a free ebook from the DiaTribe website.

Finally I am not sure how old your son is but I am assuming he is still young given that you are helping him with dosing decisions etc. My teen son is 13 and feels a lot of pressure to eat junk when he hangs outwith his friends. All I can really do is give him a good backbone of understanding about what works for his body and encourage him to be good most of the time. Hopefully your son will enjoy feeling strong, and well (with less bg swings) but I am guessing he will want to be a normal teen too or may experience some burnout from having to be 'on it' all the time. Which is okay and won't result in much collateral damage!

Best of luck to you both!