Why We Get Fat

[Dillinger]

Hello,

Was going to post this in the Low-Carb Section, but actually the title sort of lends itself to this section.

This is a very interesting (and long) lecture by Gary Tuabes speaking at Google HQ.

http://www.facebook.com/whywegetfat

You might have to click through on the lecture link if it doesn't load automatically.

You may think this is madness, you may agree; but have a listen if you've got an hour to spare. It strikes me that he makes a great deal of sense.

And if he is right, then that directly impacts on us a diabetics.

Best

Dillinger

 

[Ottermoon]

Occasionally I read a book that challenges beliefs I've held all my life. Gary Taubes' books are a prime example.

I had my husband, the scientist, read it, and he could find no large gaps in the man's logic. (And he usually does find large logic gaps in some of the things I toss his way with a request, 'Here, could you red this please and tell me what you think?')

I think I've only found a handful of thinkers that have radically changed the way I see the world, through the books they've written.

Taubes and his de-bunking of 1) "calories in, calories out" way of looking at weight, and 2) the belief that dietary fat and dietary cholesterol cause high blood fats and cholesterol.

Highly recommend his book(s). In the UK, the main one is The Diet Delusion (in US, Good Calories, Bad Calories), and the later, easier to read (leaves out much of the citations) is something like How We Get Fat and What to Do about it.

But only if you like your most closely held beliefs to be knocked on their heads! Caveat emptor!

Ottermoon

 

[Wendywu]

I can certainly vouch for dietary cholesterol having little effect on cholesterol levels. Years ago, I ate everything I shouldn't and had such a low cholesterol level my GP repeated the test twice. These days, following bowel and pancreatic surgery, I can't digest meat or dietary fat and have a frighteningly high cholesterol level. Even doubling my statins hasn't had an effect. I haven't eaten a fried anything for years, nor fatty food, rich food, or any sort of meat - dammit I don't even have spread on my bread or crackers!

 

[Dillinger]

Just thought I'd update this with a bit of anecdotal evidence from me.

I'm Type 1 and have been low-carbing for about 2 1/2 years in a serious way. Currently I eat about 30 carbs a day.

I also have insulin resistance; for that amount of carbohydrate I take about 6-8 units of fast acting insulin for meals (depending on what I'm having) and my basal insulin was 24 units of Levemir (split dose). That means my insulin to carb ratio is about 1unit :1 carbohydrate.

Even on that level of carb I could do with losing some weight, but can't realistically change my diet much more.

At the start of this year I decided to try Metformin and went on at 1,000 mg a day (which didn't have any noticeable effect) and then changed to 2,000 mg a day.

Nothing else has changed; my diet is the same and I've actually reduced my exercise (due to arrival of son number 2 and having no time to go running). However, the Metformin means that my basal insulin requirements have gone down to 18 units a day (split dose) and my average bolus is about 5 units.

What has happened is that I've lost 10 kilos from my heaviest point (that's more more than 10% of my body weight). If I lose much more I'll be back to the weight I was when I was 18. My blood pressure has gone from about 130/70 to 115/60. I'm having less fluctuation in my blood sugars and hope finally to be joining the HbA1c 5% club soon.

In my opinion and on the basis of the above Taubes is absolutely right; calories in/calories out is just nonsense; it doesn't work at all. The key is insulin and how much you have in your system.

If you want to lose weight and take control of your diabetes you are doing yourself no favours by not reading that book and taking on board what he says.

The annoying thing is, with my wife on maternity leave and money tight, this is no time to have to buy some new suits and shirts, so I have to billow around in my old ones... :cry:

Best

Dillinger

 

[Patch]

calories in/calories out is just nonsense;

I DO believe this. That's why I have such concerns with the 600cal liquid diet that I'm currently on. Is it more likely the VOLUME of food that I'm taking in that's causing the weight loss? I know I'm not happy about taking in 3x20g of sugar every day to lose weight.

If I ate small amounts of food (ie - a small cheese salad) instead of the 200cal shakes, would I see the same results? Something tells me not. I believe it is the size/volume of the food I'm consuming that will cause the fat loss from the organs.

Maybe there are different diets for losing different types of weight/fat? This 600cal liquid diet supposedly shifts fat specifically from around the organs, freeing them up to do their job properly.

Maybe a hi-fat diet (obviously lo-carb) shifts a different type of fat? (Brown/White adipose tissue????)

Are there answers out there? Just seems to be question after question...

 

[thediabeticswife]

Utterly fascinating! And now I must acquire more information...

 

[Patch]

Don't forget to share it! 8)

 

[Grazer]

Just listened to it. Fascinating. Utterely justifies the lower carb approach for diabetics. Great post Dillinger.
Malc

 

[noblehead]

Dillinger,

Certainly looks like the metformin has been the answer to your prayers.... well done!

Nigel

 

[Patch]

Metformin is a GREAT drug. It's a shame so many of us (me included) can't tolerate it.

 

[Dillinger]

Dillinger,

Certainly looks like the metformin has been the answer to your prayers.... well done!

Nigel

Thank you Nigel; it does seem to be working well; or else I've got some horrible wasting disease... :shock:

Regards

Dillinger

 

[Dillinger]

Metformin is a GREAT drug. It's a shame so many of us (me included) can't tolerate it.

Have you tried the enteric coated version? Bit more expense, but still very cheap? How long did you try if for; I'm lucky enough not to have any problems with it, but apparently a lot of issues quieten down after a couple of weeks?

How is your 600 cal thing going? Thinking about what you've said above; I don't see how it can be volume of food - wouldn't that only affect feelings of satiety? I think on the liquid diet you are still on 60 carbs which is pretty low; so you would expect your insulin levels to drop, but wouldn't it be better to do a very strict 'fat fast' type diet that some Atkiners do and really drop them?

Best

Dillinger

 

[ally5555]

If you work in practice then I think you may change your mind - I have 100s of food diaries from real people who are consuming huge amounts of calories. If you listen carefully to Taubes he keeps repeating the words sugar, fructose etc - and yes they are real problems.

I do not encourage people to count calories per se but get rid of the junk and tighten up portion control - it works in practice.

Reducing sugar in the diet has always been the restriction for raised lipids , especially triglycerides - reducing alcohol is also a proven treatment.

 

[Dillinger]

But what is the explanation for what you are saying? 

Why are people who eat a lot of calories getting fat and those on reduced portions who have cut out 'the junk' losing weight?

Either it is the calories in/ calories out idea or it is something else. 

It seems undeniable to me that it is something else. And that something else is carbohydrate and insulin related. 

If you reduce portion sizes you are also reducing carbohydrate consumption; and that is why you are losing weight.  If you stop eating 'junk' the main element of that will be starchy carbs; and hence the weight loss. 

Insulin is the key; that is why Taubes talks about sugar and fructose so much.

 

[alaska]

Why are people who eat a lot of calories getting fat and those on reduced portions who have cut out 'the junk' losing weight?

Perhaps the junk (man made fats etc) lead to insulin resistance and the energy intake being used for fat storage rather than heating and fueling the body ?

 

[ally5555]

The carbs certainly are an issue dependant upon their source - sugar is definately a major problem.

I find that people will lose wt eating reasonable amounts of CHO - this will of course vary from person to person but I really discourage this notion of treats per day.

As I have access to pts records and not everyone who is over wt has issues with abnormal lipids, glucose etc.

I have seen people put on wt who are not eating CHO by the way. Blaming carbs only is too simplistic - I see many who are eating a lot of sugar but consuming massive amounts of protein and fat as well- so the calories must count. The junk contains a lot of fat by the way.

 

[Patch]

I disagree.

Protein = Very Good (But very difficult).
Protein + Fat = Good
Protein + Sugar = BAD
Sugar + Fat = VERY BAD

At least in my own expereince.

 

[Grazer]

My own experience - since diagnosis, all I've done is cut out the sugar and starchy carbs, plus exercise. I eat a fair amount of low GI carbs. I wasn't trying to lose weight, just control blood sugar levels. I wasn't overweight hardly at all. None the less, I've lost 25 pounds (as well as control blood levels very well). My friend was then diagnosed diabetic and followed my diet - same result both for weight and sugar levels. His wife, not diabetic but overweight, copied his diet. She had tried to diet and lose weight for years without success. She also lost tons of weight. We're all eating plenty of cheese and other fats.
Starchy carbs appear to be the villains to me!
Malc

 

[noblehead]

Carbs and insulin do play an important part in fat building process but in my experience knowing just that is not enough, just as important is calories in/calories out, when there's an imbalance then you either put on weight or you lose it.

When you look at diets like the Atkins induction, it's supposedly meant to help you lose weight quickly by excluding most carbs, it's strange then that some people followed this phase for quite a considerable time and still fail to shift the weight, this could be in part due to the exclusion of carbs and replacing with extra fat and protein, carbs & protein have 4 calories per gram and fat has 9 calories per gram, therefore the exclusion of carbs is never enough.

I shifted 15lb up until March this year where my weight began to plateau, despite reducing my carb intake to 130g daily and cutting back portion size I found it difficult to shift any more weight, having spoke with the dietitian at my diabetes check she explained that my diet was very healthy and my calorie intake was now sufficient to maintain my weight, should I need to lose some more then I needed to cut back slightly on my calorie intake.

After a few pointers I left being somewhat pessimistic, however I took on board her advice and introduced a few changes and low and behold I've lost another 4lb since March, this is despite remaining on 130g of carbs and not having to increase my exercise routine, so I can say from first hand experience that calories in/calories out is important and crucial in weight management.

Nigel

 

[Patch]

Nige - 4lbs is not a significant weight loss. My weight can vary by at least that much between going to bed at night and waking in the morning. Honest.

Calories aren't real. Anyone that's ever done a fat fast during a plateau can tell you that.