Statins or not

[jonnoras]

Hi. I know many people on this site are anti - statin use but I wanted to raise the following issues and ask people to comment on what course of action they might take if they were facing the same situation as me.

I have been diagnosed T2 since Mar 2016. I immediately went on to a LCHF diet, lost 7 stone and my Hb went from 7.8 to 5.1. It has stayed at 5.1 / 5.2 since. All my retinopathy results (x3) have shown no DR. However, my last scan showed background retinopathy in one eye.
Since I started on the LCHF diet in 2016 my Cholesterol went from 4.2 to 6.4. My other numbers are Trig = 0.8 HDL = 1.8 LDL = 4.6. I'm told that these numbers are good. My BP is normal.
So for the last 3 years my glucose numbers have been good BUT my cholesterol has been higher than it was before I started the LCHF diet.
Today I went to see a GP about my retinopathy result to seek advice about why my results are changing despite good glycaemic control. He said that the high level of Cholesterol has possibly caused 'end organ blood vessel damage' and recommended statins to reduce my levels. I have done lots of reading around the subject and it looks like high lipid levels can cause retinopathy.
I am at a loss about what to do. I have resisted statins primarily because of what people on this site (and other sites) have said about them.
In the last 3 years it's my cholesterol that has increased and not my BG and now my eyes are changing. I recently posted and several kind people responded with some interesting articles about diabetic retinopathy. However, this feels like it's a different issue raised by the GP so.... should I take statins or not? Jon

 

[Guzzler]

How does your doctor feel about the fact that non Diabetics can show a measure of Retinopathy and that Retinopathy can wax and wane even on Low Carb?

 

[Caeseji]

Hi. I know many people on this site are anti - statin use but I wanted to raise the following issues and ask people to comment on what course of action they might take if they were facing the same situation as me.

I have been diagnosed T2 since Mar 2016. I immediately went on to a LCHF diet, lost 7 stone and my Hb went from 7.8 to 5.1. It has stayed at 5.1 / 5.2 since. All my retinopathy results (x3) have shown no DR. However, my last scan showed background retinopathy in one eye.
Since I started on the LCHF diet in 2016 my Cholesterol went from 4.2 to 6.4. My other numbers are Trig = 0.8 HDL = 1.8 LDL = 4.6. I'm told that these numbers are good. My BP is normal.
So for the last 3 years my glucose numbers have been good BUT my cholesterol has been higher than it was before I started the LCHF diet.
Today I went to see a GP about my retinopathy result to seek advice about why my results are changing despite good glycaemic control. He said that the high level of Cholesterol has possibly caused 'end organ blood vessel damage' and recommended statins to reduce my levels. I have done lots of reading around the subject and it looks like high lipid levels can cause retinopathy.
I am at a loss about what to do. I have resisted statins primarily because of what people on this site (and other sites) have said about them.
In the last 3 years it's my cholesterol that has increased and not my BG and now my eyes are changing. I recently posted and several kind people responded with some interesting articles about diabetic retinopathy. However, this feels like it's a different issue raised by the GP so.... should I take statins or not? Jon

Honestly once I learned the pathways and processes statins damage I tend to want to stay the hiffle away from them. Cholesterol does take on a whole different concept with LCHF as most of it was forged in the fires of higher carb diets plus the fact that tests can be manipulated easily from what we have seen with Mr. David Feldman. Honestly with low trigs and high HDL I doubt your background retniopathy has been exacerbated by that, I could be wrong but from what I have read trigs have more of a part to play in damaging smaller blood vessels.

In the end it's your decision but I would personally wait for your next eye check before taking the plunge for sure.

 

[Rachox]

I was diagnosed in May’17 and immediately had an eye screenng which was clear. I then went on to reduce my HbA1c from 70 to 36 in 4 months. The following May my screening showed back ground retinopathy. I was disappointed and upset and posted in this forum. I received loads of reassurance, particularly from @Dark Horse who talked about the delay in eyes catching up with the good effects of reduced HbA1c, Here’s a link to my thread:
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/worried-by-my-retinal-screening-result.148002/
On and btw my screening this May was clear again. HTH

 

[jonnoras]

How does your doctor feel about the fact that non Diabetics can show a measure of Retinopathy and that Retinopathy can wax and wane even on Low Carb?

Hi. I didn’t ask. I assume he’s talking about the facts as he sees them. ie. if my BG is ok then it must be my Cholesterol. J

 

[jonnoras]

I was diagnosed in May’17 and immediately had an eye screenng which was clear. I then went on to reduce my HbA1c from 70 to 36 in 4 months. The following May my screening showed back ground retinopathy. I was disappointed and upset and posted in this forum. I received loads of reassurance, particularly from @Dark Horse who talked about the delay in eyes catching up with the good effects of reduced HbA1c, Here’s a link to my thread:
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/worried-by-my-retinal-screening-result.148002/
On and btw my screening this May was clear again. HTH

Hi Rachox. I suppose I was worried because I’ve had 3 years of good retinopathy tests and now this. And the only raised figure is my lipids. Jon

 

[Guzzler]

I'm no expert but due to my personal circumstances I have delved into the whole Cholesterol morass and in so doing I have never yet come across anyone (expert or no, statin pusher or no) saying that *high* cholesterol causes sight loss.

May I ask if in the letter you received giving you your results does it say to return in twelve months?

 

[Rachox]

Hi Rachox. I suppose I was worried because I’ve had 3 years of good retinopathy tests and now this. And the only raised figure is my lipids. Jon

Have a read of the article that Dark Horse posted on my thread. HbA1cs from up to 5 years ago can affect your eye screening results:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-010-1706-z
My total cholesterol figure has increased since going low carb however my ratios are perfect so, I’ve never thought that my background retinopathy was caused by that

Edited for typo

 

[jonnoras]

I'm no expert but due to my personal circumstances I have delved into the whole Cholesterol morass and in so doing I have never yet come across anyone (expert or no, statin pusher or no) saying that *high* cholesterol causes sight loss.

May I ask if in the letter you received giving you your results does it say to return in twelve months?

Hi Guzzler. Yes it does say to return in 12 months. Is this significant? Jon

 

[JMK1954]

I think the point of Guzzler's question was that it is normal to return once a year for the normal routine test. If they don't want you back for a year, this is just a return for routine monitoring as usual. They are not telling you that you need to see a consultant or go for further tests. As the routine letter usually says, background retinopathy does not affect your sight and requires no treatment. I know it may occur and then disappear depending on how much your blood sugar levels vary. I have just got it back again, having got rid of it for several years when my BS varied less but was higher than they wanted.

 

[Rokaab]

Hi Guzzler. Yes it does say to return in 12 months. Is this significant? Jon

It means they're not worried, otherwise they'd want to see you sooner.

 

[jonnoras]

Have a read of the article that Dark Horse posted on my thread. HbA1cs from up to 5 years ago can affect your eye screening results:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-010-1706-z
My total cholesterol figure has increased since going low carb however my ratios are perfect so, I’ve never thought that my background retinopathy was caused by that

Wow. That’s really interesting reading and addresses many of my concerns. I’ve had my bloods taken again. I’ll await the results. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Cheers. Jon.

Edited by Rachox for typo in quote box, which changed the meaning

 

[jonnoras]

I think the point of Guzzler's question was that it is normal to return once a year for the normal routine test. If they don't want you back for a year, this is just a return for routine monitoring as usual. They are not telling you that you need to see a consultant or go for further tests. As the routine letter usually says, background retinopathy does not affect your sight and requires no treatment. I know it may occur and then disappear depending on how much your blood sugar levels vary. I have just got it back again, having got rid of it for several years when my BS varied less but was higher than they wanted.

Thanks JMK1954. Jon

 

[jonnoras]

Have a read of the article that Dark Horse posted on my thread. HbA1cs from up to 5 years ago can affect your eye screening results:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-010-1706-z
My total cholesterol figure has increased since going low carb however my ratios are perfect so, I’ve never thought that my background retinopathy was caused by that

Edited for typo

Hi Rachox. My Cholesterol figures I’m told are OK but my LDL seems very high. Jon

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi. I didn’t ask. I assume he’s talking about the facts as he sees them. ie. if my BG is ok then it must be my Cholesterol. J

There seem to be a few papers discussing the combination of high HbA1c, high cholesterol levels and high blood pressure being contributing factors to DR but I'm not sure I've seen one where high cholesterol alone was a major contributor. I'm sure the statin makers would love there to be such data so its absence is quite telling?
Your trig HDL ratio is great by the way.

 

[Rachox]

Hi Rachox. My Cholesterol figures I’m told are OK but my LDL seems very high. Jon

Have a go at entering your figures into these calculators, to see what your ratios are like:
http://www.hughcalc.org/chol-si.php
Or this one which is newer:
https://cholesterolcode.com/new-report-tool-launched/

 

[jonnoras]

There seem to be a few papers discussing the combination of high HbA1c, high cholesterol levels and high blood pressure being contributing factors to DR but I'm not sure I've seen one where high cholesterol alone was a major contributor. I'm sure the statin makers would love there to be such data so its absence is quite telling?
Your trig HDL ratio is great by the way.

Thanks Bulkbiker. I agree completely. Jon

 

[jonnoras]

Have a go at entering your figures into these calculators, to see what your ratios are like:
http://www.hughcalc.org/chol-si.php
Or this one which is newer:
https://cholesterolcode.com/new-report-tool-launched/

I’m out at the moment but I’ll do this later. Thanks Rachox.

 

[Guzzler]

I think the point of Guzzler's question was that it is normal to return once a year for the normal routine test. If they don't want you back for a year, this is just a return for routine monitoring as usual. They are not telling you that you need to see a consultant or go for further tests. As the routine letter usually says, background retinopathy does not affect your sight and requires no treatment. I know it may occur and then disappear depending on how much your blood sugar levels vary. I have just got it back again, having got rid of it for several years when my BS varied less but was higher than they wanted.

Thank you.

 

[enzina]

I just had my eye test this week and it showed retinopathy in the left eye although my cholesterol levels have never been high! I was never on statins and my bg control has never been better.