Did you achieve remission by following HCLF?

[zand]

A while back I posted another thread to find out the various ways folk had achieved remission.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...to-achieve-remission-excl-lchf-and-nd.156354/

I have just read through all of the replies and it seems that reducing carbs (whether directly or as a consequence of a calorie reduction) features in every one of the reversals mentioned on that thread. The extent to which carbs were reduced varied from person to person, as did the addition (or not) of extra exercise, but having fewer carbs appears to be the key to remission.

This morning someone said that we always mention LCHF on this forum but we don't give any credit to HCLF, particularly with plant based whole foods. I have seen a few threads that claim to have had remission using this method in my 6+ years of reading this forum, but the ones I remember still had BGs in the diabetic range. So I am starting this thread to see if any of us achieved remission using HCLF. I myself tried it and had disastrous results and very quickly changed back to LCHF. I was hoping that a plant based diet would help me achieve remission because I prefer veggies to animal products, however it was not to be in my case. Perhaps I just didn't do it in the right way?

To clarify -

1. By 'high carb' I mean over 225g carbs daily. I am using Trudi Deakin's definition of moderate carb being 130g to 225g, so anything above this is high carb.

2. Remission for me means achieving an HbA1c of 47 mmol/mol (6.4%) or lower, so no longer technically T2 at that point. Some of us will have achieved that and then drifted back over the line to 48+, but for the purposes of this thread I would like to hear from anyone who has ever achieved remission, even temporarily via HCLF. If someone has achieved remission for just one HbA1c then their tips might be useful to someone else. It could be that other factors got thrown into the mix after the HbA1c of 47 or less to cause the person to go back into diabetic readings, eg other health issues.

3. For the purposes of this thread, I mean remission without diabetic drugs (except Metformin which is sometimes used for its protective qualities against other health problems).

Over to you then

 

[britishpub]

Did you achieve remission by following HCLF?

No

 

[zand]

No

lol, nor me. OK to clarify further … I would like only those people who have achieved remission through HCLF with or without Metformin to post on this thread. The reason for this is that I would like to give them a fair chance to have their say without it being swamped by those who followed other methods because there's plenty of threads for us elsewhere.

I might learn where I went wrong in my experiments and it would be good for newbies to be able to see all of the choices available.

 

[sally and james]

A High Carb, Low Fat diet, focussed on vegetables, with very, very little animal produce is what appeared to create the obesity and diabetes in this household.
Breakfast: muesli, skimmed milk, fruit, fruit juice
Lunch: sandwiches, beans on toast, pizza, cake.
Dinner: pasta, baked potatoes, pies, rice, occasional puddings.
Snacks: cake, biscuits.
And it was all wholemeal, granary etc.
Sally

Would you like me to delete this? Posted at same time as Zand's post immediately above.

 

[zand]

A High Carb, Low Fat diet, focussed on vegetables, with very, very little animal produce is what appeared to create the obesity and diabetes in this household.
Breakfast: muesli, skimmed milk, fruit, fruit juice
Lunch: sandwiches, beans on toast, pizza, cake.
Dinner: pasta, baked potatoes, pies, rice, occasional puddings.
Snacks: cake, biscuits.
And it was all wholemeal, granary etc.
Sally

Would you like me to delete this? Posted at same time as Zand's post immediately above.

No, that's fine, but I was getting excited when I saw your post because I thought you might be going to tell me about another successful method.

 

[hankjam]

For my two chips I've been successful with LCHishF to achieve my goals and so not really considered anything else.
@zand I think this is a worthwhile post as we do seem to be one track minded and should see what works for others, so we can advise with an openish mind.

 

[slip]

I would like only those people who have achieved remission through HCLF

This could well be a short thread....................

 

[zand]

This could well be a short thread....................

I really hope not, because I would like to learn of alternative methods.

 

[zand]

OK. I'll start this off then. Back in 2011 I had my first fasting BG done at my surgery and it showed I was T2. This was not what I wanted to hear! So I never went back for the 2nd confirmation test. Instead I did a 600 cal diet for 7 weeks. Almost totally veggies, so that would have been only about 150g carbs daily, so moderate carb, not high. I bought a BG tester and after a couple of weeks I was in the non diabetic range. After the 7 weeks I had lost just over a stone too. However I suffered severe pains in my bones and I believe this was because I didn't get enough fat. This is my big problem with HCLF. How much fat is enough? And how much is too much? I believe those of us who have been given HCLF by dietitians are still having too much fat for the diet to achieve remission. It's the mix of carbs and fat that's the problem, not one or the other. With LCHF it's easy to find the right amount of carbs...just eat to your meter. With HCLF it isn't easy to find the right amount of fat. Carbs are not necessary for good health, fats are, so zero fat isn't a sensible option (as I found out!).

More recently I tried HC again, but didn't get the carbs right and I just felt plain ill, so gave up.

A few years ago @phoenix posted a video showing a young lady explaining HCLF. I was intrigued enough to watch it all through, but at that time it wasn't for me. I can't find it now.

So why would I try something else if LCHF works? Well I am bored. I love fruit and veggies. I am not that keen on meat. If I have 50-80g carbs daily my BGs stay mostly in check. However to lose weight I need to do keto. I don't particularly enjoy keto, but I do enjoy how it makes me feel.

So please, I know how keen most of us are re LCHF, but I really would like to hear from those who have achieved success with HCLF. There's plenty of threads saying how good LCHF is. We know that the standard HCLF isn't any good for most (all?) of us. That's not what I am talking about.

This is a genuine post, trying to give others their say. Please respect that.

As @hankjam says above...we shouldn't be too one track minded.

 

[zand]

Just bumping this old thread to see if anyone else would like to respond.

 

[mike@work]

Indeed a good subject @zand - I'll help You bump, and hope we'll see some posts relating to the original question soon...

 

[pr126]

No, to achieve remission you need low carb diet, <30 gr per day, and intermittent fasting 16 hours per day as a lifestyle, not just for a short time. If you want it to work,

Hba1c 37 and falling.

Measure your GL after each meal until you find the correct foods that do not raise your GL above 7 mmol.

I have been doing this for a year now and it works for me.
Also, find Dr. J Fung videos on YouTube for good advice.

And no drugs (Glucophage SR). Just the LC diet. Lost weight, down to normal BMI.
I wish I knew this method years ago.

 

[JohnyT2]

I might sound slightly odd here..

I didnt had something like HCLF rather it was more like Moderate Carb Low Fat. This was because I was not aware about LCHF at that time. So my basic understanding at the time was that FAT is not good so need to keep it low at the same time figured out Carbs in Sugar, Bread, Pasta spike the levels, so i reduced them and focused more on veggies, fruits, mixed grain products.

At the sametime I started with taking up active life style, which included more of Walking, Cycling, Swimming and basic exercises. As the time passed by, I lost weight, gained muscles and more stamina that helped me to push my physical limits and I started enjoying it at the same time the from being Diabetic, i came under prediabetic range and then came into normal range (latter I came to know its called remission). Its been years now since i am in normal range and hba1c results have been regularly normal. Also have not taken any medicine from years, though for first year or two I was on Metformin 1000mg Slow Release.

Now if I miss few workout and even eat moderate to high carbs, I dont see major bumps in sugar levels and after 2hrs it always come back to normal levels. Though during initial days when I came down to prediabetic ranges and then came into normal range, I did tried Pizzas, Coke, Chips, Icecreams and what not just out of anxiety that I am no more diabetic, but during that period the PPS results use to go over into diabetic range. But these days I dont see anything like that, moreover since my lifestyle has changed and dietary habits have changed I dont even eat much of high carb diets so cant justify the HCLF but I feel my remission came in as result of slight moderation in diet, getting good sleep, cut down of stress and plenty of exercise.

I would be happy to answer any specific queries. As I am thrilled to find many others have achieved remissions via various other methods and I am trying to learn from them too, just in case if my method fails in long run then I should have fallback plans too

Having shared my experience above, I in no way suggest that this might work for others too. Its been just my approach and luckily it worked.

 

[dawnmc]

I've said this before, I was vegetarian, so hclf, diagnosed with diabetes!

 

[Listlad]

Some consider 100 to 130 grams of carbs a day high carb, even now. That being the case my moderately low carb diet which worked for me can be seen as a high carb diet.

Low and high are relative terms only.

As an example: someone who is 5 feet tall might think someone who is 5 feet six inches tall is tall, but someone who is 6 feet would think that that person is short.

@zand I know you did define moderately low carb in your opening post. In my case I am consistently lower than 130 or even 100.

 

[pr126]

The ketogenic diet (very low carb) is to make the body use ketones (fat) instead of carbs (sugar) as fuel.
Intermittent fasting is accelerating the process.

There are tons of Youtube videos with advice and recipes available.
Apparently it is a very popular diet, not just for diabetes but also for weight loss.
It isn't a diet really, it has to become a lifestyle.

 

[Tophat1900]

No. I achieved diabetes instead.

 

[zand]

No, to achieve remission you need low carb diet, <30 gr per day, and intermittent fasting 16 hours per day as a lifestyle, not just for a short time. If you want it to work,

Hba1c 37 and falling.

Measure your GL after each meal until you find the correct foods that do not raise your GL above 7 mmol.

I have been doing this for a year now and it works for me.
Also, find Dr. J Fung videos on YouTube for good advice.

And no drugs (Glucophage SR). Just the LC diet. Lost weight, down to normal BMI.
I wish I knew this method years ago.

That does seem to be a very popular and successful method although some don't need to go as low as 30g to achieve remission.
I too wish I had known about this when I was piling on the pounds and eating less and less. I would never have become T2 if I had known about LCHF

 

[zand]

I've said this before, I was vegetarian, so hclf, diagnosed with diabetes!

Yes there's a few more people on here like that...

I would like to say though (for newbies out there) that whilst vegetarian and vegan tend to be high carb they don't have to be. You can do low carb or keto on either of them if you want to.

 

[zand]

Thanks for the new replies folks. I am still interested in hearing from anyone who has achieved remission with high carb low fat.

@JohnyT2 Could you maybe copy your post onto the thread below as it could be useful to others. Thanks.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...to-achieve-remission-excl-lchf-and-nd.156354/